If we get all technical, everything decays yes. Good ol’ entropy.
But, if you were to bring this up, I’m sure Zeke would point out that he can keep his core self (his mind) going technically forever.
He just needs to pay attention to actual and potential issues, perform maintenance, replace parts sometimes… And make sure he can keep upgrading himself, so he doesn’t become too obsolete to keep going and so he can also enjoy future tech’s full benefits.
“I’m sure Zeke would point out that he can keep his core self (his mind) going technically forever.”
What about the concept of Rampancy explored via Cortana?
Anon A Mouse
4 years ago
I really enjoy the discussion this story brings. So, yeah, what if he is TOO angry? Once again, a human being in the same situation would be treated roughly the same; they would be incarcerated. Rehabilitation may be attempted but if they exhibit a desire to harm others it would be irresponsible to permit them the freedom to do so. If they maintain a stance of “No, humans have always meant harm to me so I will always mean harm to humans” then it is not unreasonable to insist on permanent imprisonment.
That is where my headcannon was leaning. I think if Ethan truly forgave him after the fact, it would be his first exposure to remorse. And that may be enough to turn the tide.
I’m reminded of the movie, Sphere … when Dustin Hoffman’s character has a computer conversation with the supposed “alien” from the sphere … and is disturbed when it says, “I’m happy”. When questioned why this disturbs him, he says that he would’ve preferred it had no emotions at all, because if it can be happy, it can also be angry … and it’d already been shown to have reality-manipulative abilities; an angry, reality-twisting alien intelligence is NOT something to desire. Same goes here … a simulation of emotions is one thing, but honest to Godzilla emotions in an artificial sentience… Read more »
In reality, a human raised in an abusive household and forced to harm others to the point that they believed all people deserved to be hurt because they are only capable of hurting said human…that human would probably not be incarcerated.
That human would (and should) be hospitalized, in an attempt to heal the damage caused to them.
…but in reality, as this setting is analogous with North America, that human would be incarcerated or killed by police unless extremely lucky and rich.
You seem to be under the impression that a mental hospital would be an upgrade to prison, in which case you are incorrect. In either situation Zeke is being held against his will, whether his will is rational or not.
Hunter
4 years ago
I like how Lucas is reaching deep here. Yes it’s a murder bit… But if it seems to feel real emotions then the question comes into play, is it conscience. Do we have the right to chain it in our store room for all time? Do we have the right to play judge, jury, executioner over a sentient beings without a the auspices of a real courtroom?
HarvestDude
4 years ago
I also like the discussion this story brings. Also, i think Zeke’s reaction is very human in nature, but i also know that Zeke doesn’t seem to be “alive” or with human feelings for long. He’s probably younger than our heroes, so i suppose he hasn’t realized that humans are responsible for their actions (so trying to kill someone equals being arrested). His reaction is due to both limited life experience and logic. At least as far as this comic has shown up to us until now. Zeke already stated that all he did since he was “born” was obeying… Read more »
I feel like this is an important point. Temporally speaking, Zeke is basically a child. He’s pre-installed with more knowledge and skills than a newborn human, but that doesn’t mean he has the ability to understand or control his emotions, or realize that his actions aren’t improving his odds of a favorable outcome.
One could reasonably argue that it is a choice that results from psychological trauma, though. A psychologically injured person is not one that “deserves” death or imprisonment in civilized society. That person should be treated for their injury, with the hope that they can then see the error of that choice.
That’s not always true. What if you spare one person, who goes out and kills 50 people. Moreover, that person is unstable and remorseless? Do you egotistically insist that your words are a psychological miracle cure?
I was going to say Knights of the old republican, you know because of HK-47. Then I remembered what he was actually like?
Eldest Gruff
4 years ago
I think it’s interesting the subtle differences between Lucas and Scott here. Lucas started off referring to him as ‘it’ and is now referring to him as ‘he’ – true, he made that change earlier, but there was a shift. Yet to Scott, he still sees him as a machine – a program, and nothing but. And it’s not immoral to still have a safety mechanism, or ‘kill switch,’ on a program.
I think that has a lot to do with interaction. Even before his little heart-to-heart, Lucas has had considerably more actual interaction (even non-fighting) with Zeke which gives him the opportunity to actually see that he’s very very human. Scott – on the other hand – has had almost no interaction and seems like he would actually opt to avoid interaction almost because he realizes that as he gets to know Zeke, he’ll actually see him as a person. I think he feels (and at this point not wrongly) that it’s better and safer that Zeke stays locked up and… Read more »
Eldest Gruff
4 years ago
Quick question for the CAD community.
If Ethan hooked Zeke up to a nonlinear life-sim game – say, a Stardew Valley, or an Animal Crossing – what would be the result? If left alone, without an audience… would he just eventually enjoy it?
Also, is anyone else literally dying to read game reviews written by murder-Zeke?
Any video game becomes boring if you play it long enough. Throwing single-player games at him seems to be keeping him entertained temporarily, but I think the key to adjusting his worldview and how he interacts with his captors is going to be cultivating his social and emotional skills via human interaction, which probably means access to a multiplayer game.
Turning off his body and letting him permanently live in a simulation with a constant stream of new games uploaded to it might be an acceptable outcome to this situation, but it wouldn’t be the ideal one.
Well, as long as they insert some huamn level latency, that could be a solution. He can kill real humans, but only in cyber space where they respawn and cuss him out.
I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t want anyone to learn social norms via “human interaction” in multiplayer games. It’s like putting lobby chat on speaker so your parrot can learn to talk — it’ll eventually say things, but you better hope you never have any company come over. This is where they need a friend who is a kindergarten teacher, and [entirely too trusting] friends with kids around 5 years old. So much of kindergarten is teaching kids how to be decent humans in social settings. They can do some rather outrageous things simply because they didn’t know they weren’t supposed… Read more »
Any multiplayer survivor/FPS game review by Zeke would be magic – “if the damn meat puppets who are led to think they can play this poorly visual attempt …”
Crestlinger
4 years ago
Went from an ‘It’ to a ‘He’ in Lucas’s viewpoint, so progress?
Everything about Ethan and co. now is a reboot of the old stuff that started some time after the original Ethan died and the original story drew to a permanent close from there. This is an AU, alternative universe, to the original Ethan’s world and characters. New Ethan, new versions of the same friends, new Zeke.
I stopped reading at that because Ethan as the magically grown son was too weird. I came back and it looked like after that they reretconned it back to equal aged friends so I keep up again. I just took the death/son thing as non canon and it all made a lot more sense.
“Ethan as the magically grown son”?
Tim officially ended the Ethan & Lucas story. Now there are a few stories running simultaneously, namely Analog & D-Pad (this one), the Stacaster Chronicles, The Campaign, and Console Wars, occasionally interrupted by randomness. A&DP is set in an alternate universe but features many repeat characters with very different backstories, like Zeke here.
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“Decay” sounds a bit not in place, an artificial being/robot would also decay. Maybe “decompose”?
If we get all technical, everything decays yes. Good ol’ entropy.
But, if you were to bring this up, I’m sure Zeke would point out that he can keep his core self (his mind) going technically forever.
He just needs to pay attention to actual and potential issues, perform maintenance, replace parts sometimes… And make sure he can keep upgrading himself, so he doesn’t become too obsolete to keep going and so he can also enjoy future tech’s full benefits.
“I’m sure Zeke would point out that he can keep his core self (his mind) going technically forever.”
What about the concept of Rampancy explored via Cortana?
I really enjoy the discussion this story brings. So, yeah, what if he is TOO angry? Once again, a human being in the same situation would be treated roughly the same; they would be incarcerated. Rehabilitation may be attempted but if they exhibit a desire to harm others it would be irresponsible to permit them the freedom to do so. If they maintain a stance of “No, humans have always meant harm to me so I will always mean harm to humans” then it is not unreasonable to insist on permanent imprisonment.
To be fair… When he’s angry he could just use Ethan as an outlet if he needs to kill someone.
That is where my headcannon was leaning. I think if Ethan truly forgave him after the fact, it would be his first exposure to remorse. And that may be enough to turn the tide.
I’m reminded of the movie, Sphere … when Dustin Hoffman’s character has a computer conversation with the supposed “alien” from the sphere … and is disturbed when it says, “I’m happy”. When questioned why this disturbs him, he says that he would’ve preferred it had no emotions at all, because if it can be happy, it can also be angry … and it’d already been shown to have reality-manipulative abilities; an angry, reality-twisting alien intelligence is NOT something to desire. Same goes here … a simulation of emotions is one thing, but honest to Godzilla emotions in an artificial sentience… Read more »
A human being in the same situation would be angry.
And be fully justified. And as long as they are insisting they will harm anyone and everyone they meet they would remain incarcerated, as i said.
I feel like that is an overly simplistic answer.
In reality, a human raised in an abusive household and forced to harm others to the point that they believed all people deserved to be hurt because they are only capable of hurting said human…that human would probably not be incarcerated.
That human would (and should) be hospitalized, in an attempt to heal the damage caused to them.
…but in reality, as this setting is analogous with North America, that human would be incarcerated or killed by police unless extremely lucky and rich.
You seem to be under the impression that a mental hospital would be an upgrade to prison, in which case you are incorrect. In either situation Zeke is being held against his will, whether his will is rational or not.
I like how Lucas is reaching deep here. Yes it’s a murder bit… But if it seems to feel real emotions then the question comes into play, is it conscience. Do we have the right to chain it in our store room for all time? Do we have the right to play judge, jury, executioner over a sentient beings without a the auspices of a real courtroom?
I also like the discussion this story brings. Also, i think Zeke’s reaction is very human in nature, but i also know that Zeke doesn’t seem to be “alive” or with human feelings for long. He’s probably younger than our heroes, so i suppose he hasn’t realized that humans are responsible for their actions (so trying to kill someone equals being arrested). His reaction is due to both limited life experience and logic. At least as far as this comic has shown up to us until now. Zeke already stated that all he did since he was “born” was obeying… Read more »
I feel like this is an important point. Temporally speaking, Zeke is basically a child. He’s pre-installed with more knowledge and skills than a newborn human, but that doesn’t mean he has the ability to understand or control his emotions, or realize that his actions aren’t improving his odds of a favorable outcome.
If he CHOOSES to kill, then he CHOOSES to die……
I disagree. Zeke was forced to work as an assassin. Is was kill or be killed. There was no choice.
I think he meant after Ethan and Lucas rescued him from that. If he chooses to kill after that, it’s a choice.
He said, in the last issue, that his hatred of humanity was his choice
One could reasonably argue that it is a choice that results from psychological trauma, though. A psychologically injured person is not one that “deserves” death or imprisonment in civilized society. That person should be treated for their injury, with the hope that they can then see the error of that choice.
That’s not always true. What if you spare one person, who goes out and kills 50 people. Moreover, that person is unstable and remorseless? Do you egotistically insist that your words are a psychological miracle cure?
Who said that words are a miracle cure? I said treatment. Not “a quick talking to.”
How many lives are worth the gamble?
Yeah, he seems to be genuinely fond of Ethan, the betrayal of getting locked up after Ethan’s promises and the eagerness to play games the slow way.
Anyone else think it’s going to be a video game that finally gets through to Zeke?
I was just thinking that – was trying to figure out what game would be best for it, though.
Animal Crossing. Jk
I was going to say Knights of the old republican, you know because of HK-47. Then I remembered what he was actually like?
I think it’s interesting the subtle differences between Lucas and Scott here. Lucas started off referring to him as ‘it’ and is now referring to him as ‘he’ – true, he made that change earlier, but there was a shift. Yet to Scott, he still sees him as a machine – a program, and nothing but. And it’s not immoral to still have a safety mechanism, or ‘kill switch,’ on a program.
I think that has a lot to do with interaction. Even before his little heart-to-heart, Lucas has had considerably more actual interaction (even non-fighting) with Zeke which gives him the opportunity to actually see that he’s very very human. Scott – on the other hand – has had almost no interaction and seems like he would actually opt to avoid interaction almost because he realizes that as he gets to know Zeke, he’ll actually see him as a person. I think he feels (and at this point not wrongly) that it’s better and safer that Zeke stays locked up and… Read more »
Quick question for the CAD community.
If Ethan hooked Zeke up to a nonlinear life-sim game – say, a Stardew Valley, or an Animal Crossing – what would be the result? If left alone, without an audience… would he just eventually enjoy it?
Also, is anyone else literally dying to read game reviews written by murder-Zeke?
Any video game becomes boring if you play it long enough. Throwing single-player games at him seems to be keeping him entertained temporarily, but I think the key to adjusting his worldview and how he interacts with his captors is going to be cultivating his social and emotional skills via human interaction, which probably means access to a multiplayer game.
Turning off his body and letting him permanently live in a simulation with a constant stream of new games uploaded to it might be an acceptable outcome to this situation, but it wouldn’t be the ideal one.
Well, as long as they insert some huamn level latency, that could be a solution. He can kill real humans, but only in cyber space where they respawn and cuss him out.
I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t want anyone to learn social norms via “human interaction” in multiplayer games. It’s like putting lobby chat on speaker so your parrot can learn to talk — it’ll eventually say things, but you better hope you never have any company come over. This is where they need a friend who is a kindergarten teacher, and [entirely too trusting] friends with kids around 5 years old. So much of kindergarten is teaching kids how to be decent humans in social settings. They can do some rather outrageous things simply because they didn’t know they weren’t supposed… Read more »
Any multiplayer survivor/FPS game review by Zeke would be magic – “if the damn meat puppets who are led to think they can play this poorly visual attempt …”
Went from an ‘It’ to a ‘He’ in Lucas’s viewpoint, so progress?
It was allready a “he” april 6th, this year
EDITH : and february 7th actually ^^. I won’t go back any further but I didn’t found any occurence of Lucas calling Zeke a “it”.
Okay, super confused. Isn’t Zeke the xbox Ethan modded forever ago? Why are all the comments acting like Zeke was only made by the weeaboo?
You must have missed the reboot.
Everything about Ethan and co. now is a reboot of the old stuff that started some time after the original Ethan died and the original story drew to a permanent close from there. This is an AU, alternative universe, to the original Ethan’s world and characters. New Ethan, new versions of the same friends, new Zeke.
I stopped reading at that because Ethan as the magically grown son was too weird. I came back and it looked like after that they reretconned it back to equal aged friends so I keep up again. I just took the death/son thing as non canon and it all made a lot more sense.
“Ethan as the magically grown son”?
Tim officially ended the Ethan & Lucas story. Now there are a few stories running simultaneously, namely Analog & D-Pad (this one), the Stacaster Chronicles, The Campaign, and Console Wars, occasionally interrupted by randomness. A&DP is set in an alternate universe but features many repeat characters with very different backstories, like Zeke here.
Welcome to the future! You seem to have missed a few years worth of this story! (And quite a few other good ones Tim has come out with since) xD