I hope Ethan has the sense to ask how far Scott wants to take it. Ask Scott directly if they should just be killing anyone they think is a threat. Highlight the result of the path of pre-crime murder; the pain and suffering you will cause people’s families when you kill them because you think they could be a threat. Show Scott what a miserable world is created through such logic.
My Companion mother makes 50 bucks an hour on the PC(Personal Computer). She has been out of w0rk for quite some time however last month her check was 11,500 bucks only w0rking on the PC(Personal Computer) for 9 hours per day.
For more detail visit this article.. https://dollarsperhours1.blogspot.com/
Today it’s more likely he has a USB port for plugging in external drives. You can use your imagination with today’s NVMe portable drives. Haha.
Edwin
2 years ago
This development rocks. The followers of the “old” comic now see the development of why Scott will become Ethan’s Nemesis. No longer just because he is a Apple fanboy. Well played Tim, well played
I do still hold out hope that Scott doesn’t become a villain. i like the dynamic they got now of being allies who just butt heads every so often. Plus the idea of taking two enemies and making them friends in a new incarnation has always facinated me. Would love to see some Zelda game where the latest incarnations Link, Zelda, And Ganondorf are all friends and fighting side by side for example.
Yes you are completely right. Too long ago and all things i don’t get/have got mixed up in my had a the same?it was the Linux, penguin thing
Rolando
2 years ago
Scott can see the source of the irrational parts of his position. To me, that means he’s still far from “the dark side.” Those who’ve actually crossed into that territory, can be distinguished because they don’t see their personal experiences, beliefs and opinions as such anymore. They see them as absolute laws that can be used to perfectly judge everything and everyone, and as the ultimate argument for taking it upon themselves to be judge, jury and executioner. They act like there’s this one truth, and they own it, and it gives them the holy duty to trample over anyone… Read more »
He may still be faintly aware of his position, But he’s crossed the line. He’s taken that first step- And a big one at that. He betrayed his friends trust, He lied to both friend and potential foe, He assumed foe with no chance of proven innocence.. He’s just taken that first step over the line, yes; But he’s already done it. And even having done it he STILL is in that headspace that IF he can be the person he needed then; To be that answer someone else needed, He’d almost definitely do it again. He judged, He jury’d,… Read more »
The line…. is a line. It is not a one-way force field that prevents you from stepping back over it again. My point is that Scott may have judged, jury’d and executed, but he is even right now reflecting and exploring from that single experience the consequences and morality of his actions, even as he is talking about his “justified” viewpoint. It is very much still possible he may find his way back. He’d have to live with the one time he stepped over, and he likely have an eternal enemy now, but circumstances are still not too far gone… Read more »
Scott has killed. He will kill again.
He is off the deep end already, and these are just excuses to justify what he deep down knows is wrong.
Because what if Zeke evolved, and saved lives instead? Those won’t be saved now. Scott is full of shit, because he only answers the questions that soothe his guilt.
You have some major flaws in your logic.
Scott has NOT killed, he blew up a computer.
What if Zeke “evolved” and did exactly as it has stated the plan was? Those people will not be killed/enslaved now. Scott may have just saved the world from a machine with the intent and capability to destroy humanity.
What defines murder? A human being? A sapient being? Zeke was showing signs of sapience, being equal in all other regards to humanity. The only difference being that his being wasn’t biological. People are after all, just biological and chemical robots with poorly understood code.
People have used similar excuses for atrocities throughout history. Because to them, their victims weren’t people or human, so it wasn’t murder.
I don’t agree with your entire statement, but you do bring up a very good point that people claiming Scott crossed a line are missing. Zeke is not a human. Whatever existence is there is undefined in the world. Obviously Ethan has his own beliefs on the matter, but so does Scott. As readers, it’s easy to bias ourselves towards the more hopeful interpretation, but if we were really stuck in the situation without the higher narrative viewpoint being cynical about it isn’t unreasonable.
I think this arc was created because Tim was tired of the folks that felt one side of the other was 100% right. They are both right, and both wrong. Hopefully they end up working together to openly resolve both of their concerns. First step for both is finding Zeke, they can build on that.
Scott’s ideas are right but he took things too far in achieving them. Scott went even further in being wrong when he lied to both Ethan and Lucas and decided the bomb should remain in Zeke unilaterally.
Lucas was wrong to lie to Ethan but he didn’t decide this alone, he decided it with Scott and they had the majority over Ethan in that decision. When Scott did that, both Lucas and Ethan wanted the bomb removed from Zeke.
This is the gray area of a free society. On the one hand we have the freedom to be anything… on the other we have the freedom to be ANYTHING, literally anything. In free societies you have the responsibility to curb your base desires and not hurt others. Some would say we also have the responsibility to take care of others too. In a perfect society both statements would be true. Problem is no one, or thing, is perfect. This is why this grayness exist. All we can do as humans is keep pushing forward and do the best we… Read more »
Scott and Zeke are at least in the same boat. Both have attempted and not succeeded to murder someone.
Can’t condemn one without condemning the other.
Scott might come out on top of this comparison though, because his attempted murder was against someone who attempted murder multiple times before and frequently threatened to do so again.
The actions of Zeke are irrelevant to the moral choices that Scott made. It’s not up to him to be judge, jury and executioner, it’s nither his right nor his position for any of those. You are defending a murderer, whose justifications are that he killed because he THOUGHT it was the right thing to do, simply because the person that he killed did something horrible as well. That’s never a justification, never a morally right choice to make. I am honestly appalled at all the people who would defend this, and extremely glad that in most developed societies in… Read more »
It’s not irrelevant, nor is it a whataboutism. Whataboutisms are used to change the subject, to make a connection that isn’t there, or to shift the blame. No one is doing that here. We’re all staying on topic, the connection between Scott and ZK is definitely there, and no one is denying Scott has made some mistakes and is partially to blame here. Scott, while biased, is LITERALLY BASING HIS DECISIONS on proven behavior from ZK. How is ZK’s behavior “irrelevant” when judging Scott then? You’re not making any sense at all. You talk about Scott’s actions as if they… Read more »
Trying to nuance the justifications of a murderer by bringing up whatever somebody else did is a whataboutism, exactly by your definition. It is also irrelevant, because what Zeke did does not matter for Scott’s morally bankrupt choices.Zeke is just a coincidental scapegoat he is projecting his own trauma on, and he would have done it regardless of Zeke’s actions. And exactly; Zeke’s actiuons warrant a legal sentence. Not a vigilante taking justice into his own hands, justifying his MURDEROUS INTENT by covering it up with emotional arguments that come down to “if only someone stopped them before!”. That’s now… Read more »
Also, just to point; I never said that Scott is beyond redemption. I have pointed out that his excuses are bullshit, and as such he is morally bankrupt murderer.
If you need to put words in my mouth to have an argument, you don’t have an argument at all.
But then again, I am very much in full disagreement with you, so I don’t believe you have any decent arguments at all anyway.
We ain’t going to find any common ground on this subject whatsoever,
He hasn’t even murdered anyone so you cannot use that term. You can try attempted murderer but even not positive that holds as he left in an existing failsafe that he did not put there himself and just didnt tell others was still on.
Attempted. He did not kill although by leaving the failsafe in place he allowed the opportunity to occur yes. But he also didn’t manually pull the trigger.
Didn’t he modified the behaviour of that device to explode if Zeke left the room, at the very least? It’s not as if it could ever be taken as a “did nothing to help Zeke”… The steps were measured and taken, even if Scott used an already existing “trap”.
ThatGuy
2 years ago
It says a LOT that Scott is self-aware enough how deep down the rabbit hole he’s in and how he wishes no one else is there with him. He knows his way of thinking is flawed, but he also feels it’s the right one. The more Scott talks, the more I see his Red Hood to Ethan’s Batman: Family who cares about each other but a core justice value keeps it strained. He’ll come around on Zeke, I’m sure….just not anytime soon. I don’t think he’d change his mind even if it showed Zeke making a selfless sacrifice situation to… Read more »
Comic sidenote: Red Hood recently gave up the guns because (to paraphrase), while he believes that there are bad people out there and that they still need to die, death has a way of radiating outward to affect other people. As such, Jason is trying to figure out a new way. Relating to this comic, this goes back to where Ethan is talking about how he knows the Sun Devils were bad people but that doesn’t stop them from being someone’s beloved friend/family member. As for Scott, I was wrong. He does see Ethan’s perspective. He is even admitting to… Read more »
Ray
2 years ago
When you’re drowning, you’ll grab anything, even a snake.
Why? He is in a dark place, yet still able to see where he is and able to reason around it. He deserves empathy and understanding IMO eventhough I don’t agree with his conclusions.
A relationship requires empathy on both sides. Scott isn’t showing any empathy towards Ethan, isn’t making any effort to understand him and that’s a bad sign. Making traumas into measuring contests will sour any relationship and yet Scott doesn’t care. Now if they really want to end it all they should play Monopoly, that will do it.
He’s making a lot of assumptions about where Ethan is getting his “hope” from… without asking Ethan where he thinks it comes from. I’ve been there myself; not wanting to know anyone else’s answers, insisting you already have them, even though you freely admit that the ones you have are insufficient.
“You don’t know, but I do!”
When you stop asking questions and start making assumptions… you’re in trouble.
Reason? What he is doing is not demonstrating reason. He’s willing to kill based solely on his decision of who or what is or is not a threat. That’s not reasonable.
And he has already tried to kill a sentient being. Fuck being in a “dark place”. Scott has already crossed the line and shown he’s willing to kill.
same, exactly, but too many ppl in the comments are bloodthirsty
HarvestDude™
2 years ago
I really like the discussion about how the same tragedy affected 2 directly involved people with different results. Ethan’s sister death made Scott less sensitive to mankind’s flaws while making Ethan more human and trying to understand the whole human context, despite the individuals choices. They were emotionally hit differently, but how to compare the loss of a beloved wife with the loss of a beloved sister? The wife is our companion, the one we cherish and share everything about our lives… and a sister, someone we grew up with, that was there for us and vice-versa… Also, both had… Read more »
Last edited 2 years ago by HarvestDude™
Chris j
2 years ago
I love the tone of this storyline. The gritty shit that hides behind the glamour of the usual superhero stuff. Really matured a lot since the first version of the comic. Love it tim, keep it coming
Ami
2 years ago
There is one critical difference between Scott and DeathBlood (as far as we know). Deathblood targets known criminals engaged in criminal activity. Scott talks about preventing something from happening in the future, which means possibly prejudging someone who may not have even done anything yet.
If Scott really feels this way, he might as well kill Lucas and Ethan. Ethan nearly got someone killed (unintentionally), and Lucas’s arrows are deadly if his aim is off.
Scott has to stop living in the past or he’s going to be the one killing people.
I don’t – Zeke constantly talks about how they want to kill everyone. Constantly. In the past, sure, the Master was controlling their actions, but they represented themselves as being absolutely delighted at the opportunity to kill Ethan and Lucas. I could be wrong, but I don’t remember them ever expressing any remorse over that whatsoever. If somebody immediately finds a strip where Zeke said “I feel bad about putting Lucas in the hospital”, okay, then I’m wrong. I don’t agree with Scott here, but I do think everyone acting like Scott is purely prejudging Zeke, including Ethan, is choosing… Read more »
I mean, I can’t directly point to a strip where Zeke expressed remorse over their actions, but there is this one: https://cad-comic.com/comic/analog-and-d-pad-05-19/ This one shows them saying “technically, I’m not “allowed” to kill any of you”. Either because the Master wrote it into their code, or verbally indicated that wasn’t allowed. However, since being out of the Master’s control, Zeke has many times expressed their “mission” or whatever to end human life, yet they’ve never even tried to act on it. Not even once. They never left the store to go on a mad killing spree. In fact, never even… Read more »
The whole arc where Ethan talks about how death hurts every time and Zeke goes “I’m sorry, that must be scary” was a very big point for me, and if you’re doing a track record it’s pretty shortsighted to ignore the tiny length of that track record, as Zeke is maybe one year old?
Jim
2 years ago
Enjoying this villain origin story? Maybe we get some penguin themed costume going on?
Kaitensatsuma
2 years ago
That’s an incredibly myopic view of the world, glasses aside and all that.
Arcslayer
2 years ago
Bravo Tim, this is much better than I expected, now please land this. Show us how Ethan, Lucas, Scott, and Zeke will, eventually, find balance and peace. This conversation can’t end in a satisfying resolution. Ethan ripped up Scott’s justification script before he really got going and it almost shocked Scott into listening. However, the raw emotion on both sides means that soon they’ll realize that any more talk is pointless. I hate Scott, his reasoning is that he should kill the future to save his memory of the past. Zeke can only be a weapon to him because hope… Read more »
Name one time a US politician has been affected by real life enough to make a concerted effort to change it.
Only dubious example I can think of in recent history is Trump. For good or ill he really did try to make a change in how life and politics in this country works. Blew up in his face as the system fought back but he tried. All the rest talk a big game about change when they face a tough election/reelection but all are just another cog in the same corrupt machine once their position is secured.
Agreed about all of the rest. But trump literally “drained the swamp” by putting people who were very clearly corrupt in power. He put the same people he “hated” back in control. He wanted to “change things up” because as you said,he was talking a big game when he was facing a tough election/reelection. He just never left the campaign trail.
The guy who had the capital attacked is your example? Jan 6th? The guy who the rest of the g7 had to explain to that Russia wasn’t allowed to rejoin? Covfefe? Said Epstein was a terrific guy? That trump? Mango Mussolini? When did Authoritarianism become something to idolize…
Except there are archives of these incidents of Trump’s. Archives throughout his time, and not even done by small-time people. People fact-checking and calling out his nonsense. There was so much that shows such as John Oliver were in a Trump-Loop, issues in one sector would lead to things caused by his enabling and incompetence, and then it fed more issues in more sectors that required research, which flowed back to Trump. People get burnt out on seeing him, but his incompetence radiated like a malignant cancer. Look at various foreign sources looking in. Nowadays, you can learn a lot… Read more »
Trump is not a good example of that and is an example of someone that did the opposite and knowingly made things worse for his own profit. He has a history of screwing people over even before he was in the White House. He wanted to be a dictator and stay in power even though he lost.
Ben
2 years ago
The fact that Scott is able to say it like this means one of two things. He’s either so far gone that Ethan can’t possibly reach him anymore, or he’s having a breakthrough and seeing his own mistakes for what they are.
Sadly, I’m not betting on the latter
Casra
2 years ago
Here’s the thing, Scott, isn’t wrong per say. Stopping a threat before it can inflict harm is a positive thing. However, he’s missing the hope/potential part. Yes, Zeke is a “threat” but he’s also a chance for good, and to deny chance is where he failed. The dark inside him blinds him to that.
JustJoel
2 years ago
In all fairness, we KNOW Zeke is a threat to humanity, Zeke has expressed that themself. I know it’ll be really difficult, but I really hope Scott and Ethan find a middle ground eventually (it’d be too forced to expect that on this storyline, but I hope so eventually).
ARE they a threat though? Zeke’s never actually done anything threatening to humanity short of “grand plans” spoken to Ethan and Lucas basically. Even when they thought they had no physical limitation of space, when Scott enabled motor functions, they still chose to stay in the storage room of the shop, setting up their own sovereign kingdom. I’d say that’s a point in favour of not being so much of a threat.
I would say it is still highly debatable. Zeke never left because of their own insecurity and never caused harm but CONSTANTLY threatened people. While thats fine and jokey its also very disturbing behavior. I am not saying “What if Zeke attacked?” Im saying “Zeke constantly threatens people with serious violence” and while those threats eventually ring hollow its not ok.
ThatMageGuy
2 years ago
While Scott somehow evolving into an antihero would be intriguing, my money is that he will find a way to the light.
Otherwise, Ethan has to invent his own gadgets, and nobody wants that.
playing it safe
2 years ago
We need the penguin
Rolando
2 years ago
Ironically enough, anyone that condemns Scott for what basically amounts to prejudice… Should remember that such a logic also condemns ZK. After all, ZK is dangerous because he’s shown a keen interest in hurting/killing humans out of prejudice. Scott did take a step forward, in hurting ZK. But ZK has taken that step as well, by hurt at least one person (Lucas). And they both did it in a treacherous manner. I know I’m oversimplifying, in a way. But it’s there. And notice I wasn’t even counting hurting Ethan. But I should, because the fact ZK knows Ethan cannot stay… Read more »
Last edited 2 years ago by Rolando
volcarthe
2 years ago
Scott, you didn’t see where you became the thing that someone else didn’t stop beforehand.
TamTroll
2 years ago
To be fair to Scott, he DOES have a point. A Sapient Robot can be a dangerous thing.They’re stronger, tougher, smarter, and faster then humans. if Zeke ever figured out how to replicate himself, things could get Terminator real quick.
This is a big crux to this situation. Zeke has never caused serious harm to anyone, not while under their own control, but they are highly capable. Couple with that how casually they threaten violence and death on people and there would be serious cauae for concern even if Zeke WASNT a robot. Im not saying “what if zeke attacked?” Like its inevitable, im saying “zeke makes constant threats about his very serious intent to do harm to people in general”.
So anything that is smarter, stronger, faster, tougher than humans deserves to die?
Nono
2 years ago
One, small, solace: Scott used the name ‘Zeke’.
Scarsdale
2 years ago
Scott isn’t too far gone, he’s felt in a small way, the ramifications of the path he’s taken. If he continues he’ll lose friends, respect, and the legality of his actions will lead to if not villainy and/or prison time. Many bad cops go down the same path because they get tired of dealing with a weak system that lets true criminals go free and stick the self-helper in prison. They use the same logic to do some truly awful things. Planting evidence just because they think “they deserve it” or make deals with shady people to catch another. In… Read more »
Cam
2 years ago
I’m more invested in this comic than any tv series or movie right now.
This is perfection.
Last edited 2 years ago by Cam
Chieroscuro
2 years ago
Scott’s “I saw a chance to kill in a way that I could justify to myself, and I took it for the satisfaction of righteous murder” argument is compelling, but probably not for the conclusion he thinks.
Jason
2 years ago
Scott almost took his own life. He doesn’t realise how lucky he is. One shot, and its over. How many times has Ethan Died? He would feel and remember every death. Even if he wanted to die, he can’t. There is no getting away from his feelings. So all he can do is try to make the world a better place.
Jack0r
2 years ago
I love how the tone in the comics shifted. Scot just became a human to most commentators. And his fear of Zeke is now suddenly understood.
Oh, I think we understood WHY before. He was just approaching it so irrationally that we didn’t accept it.
Euphamia
2 years ago
I see scott as the same evil he wants to stop and maybe should be stopped
Reso
2 years ago
I’m really loving this chapter. Panels 1 and 2 are especially great. Ethan pouring more whiskey for Scott shows that he’s listening to what Scott has to say, even if he will not ultimately agree. In other words, in that moment it it appears that Ethan isn’t merely reacting out of emotion. He has at least calm down enough to pour his brother a little whiskey.
Member
Saixak
2 years ago
I hoped that this arc would stitch the team back together, but Ethan and Scott seem to have entirely too different outlooks on things, and it may be irreconcilable.
Andrew
2 years ago
Scott isn’t right because he’s emotional disturbed. He’s right because some men CANNOT be reasoned with. They can’t be bribed, bought, or placated. Some men want to murder you and rape your family. At that point, they eat lead. Good men don’t want to kill, their forced to to protect others and themselves. You don’t have to see them as less than human. Although some do to make them feel better. Death blood is a caricature and a straw man. You can’t punish someone for what they MIGHT do, cuz at that point they’re not guilty. You also cannot have… Read more »
24
I hope Ethan has the sense to ask how far Scott wants to take it. Ask Scott directly if they should just be killing anyone they think is a threat. Highlight the result of the path of pre-crime murder; the pain and suffering you will cause people’s families when you kill them because you think they could be a threat. Show Scott what a miserable world is created through such logic.
There is now peace, for I have slain everyone I see.
The killer is in the room with you, look in the mirror
My Companion mother makes 50 bucks an hour on the PC(Personal Computer). She has been out of w0rk for quite some time however last month her check was 11,500 bucks only w0rking on the PC(Personal Computer) for 9 hours per day.
For more detail visit this article.. https://dollarsperhours1.blogspot.com/
Damn, this is getting deep. Good writing Tim.
Came here to say that. The writing, the character development, the drawing. Everything is spot on on this page
Well, this comic definitely evolved over the years.
I remember when the punchline was Zeke’s optical driver being built into his crotch.
Tim has certainly come a long way.
Granted, the optical drive could still be installed in its crotch. We just don’t know about it yet. ?
Today it’s more likely he has a USB port for plugging in external drives. You can use your imagination with today’s NVMe portable drives. Haha.
This development rocks. The followers of the “old” comic now see the development of why Scott will become Ethan’s Nemesis. No longer just because he is a Apple fanboy. Well played Tim, well played
I do still hold out hope that Scott doesn’t become a villain. i like the dynamic they got now of being allies who just butt heads every so often. Plus the idea of taking two enemies and making them friends in a new incarnation has always facinated me. Would love to see some Zelda game where the latest incarnations Link, Zelda, And Ganondorf are all friends and fighting side by side for example.
Apple fanboy? Wasn’t scott a Linux guy? I honestly forgot.
Linux is correct. Also had a pet penguin who turned out to be the brains of the operation.
Yes you are completely right. Too long ago and all things i don’t get/have got mixed up in my had a the same?it was the Linux, penguin thing
Scott can see the source of the irrational parts of his position. To me, that means he’s still far from “the dark side.” Those who’ve actually crossed into that territory, can be distinguished because they don’t see their personal experiences, beliefs and opinions as such anymore. They see them as absolute laws that can be used to perfectly judge everything and everyone, and as the ultimate argument for taking it upon themselves to be judge, jury and executioner. They act like there’s this one truth, and they own it, and it gives them the holy duty to trample over anyone… Read more »
He may still be faintly aware of his position, But he’s crossed the line. He’s taken that first step- And a big one at that. He betrayed his friends trust, He lied to both friend and potential foe, He assumed foe with no chance of proven innocence.. He’s just taken that first step over the line, yes; But he’s already done it. And even having done it he STILL is in that headspace that IF he can be the person he needed then; To be that answer someone else needed, He’d almost definitely do it again. He judged, He jury’d,… Read more »
I get your point, and I see how both yours and mine can coexist as they’re both valid.
I see an irony, here. Every last thing you said about Scott, to condemn his behavior… Applies to ZK, as well.
If you see ZK’s potential to change, in the fact he’s not too far gone… By the same logic, you’ve gotta see the same in Scott.
The line…. is a line. It is not a one-way force field that prevents you from stepping back over it again. My point is that Scott may have judged, jury’d and executed, but he is even right now reflecting and exploring from that single experience the consequences and morality of his actions, even as he is talking about his “justified” viewpoint. It is very much still possible he may find his way back. He’d have to live with the one time he stepped over, and he likely have an eternal enemy now, but circumstances are still not too far gone… Read more »
Scott has killed. He will kill again.
He is off the deep end already, and these are just excuses to justify what he deep down knows is wrong.
Because what if Zeke evolved, and saved lives instead? Those won’t be saved now. Scott is full of shit, because he only answers the questions that soothe his guilt.
Scott is a murderer. Period.
You have some major flaws in your logic.
Scott has NOT killed, he blew up a computer.
What if Zeke “evolved” and did exactly as it has stated the plan was? Those people will not be killed/enslaved now. Scott may have just saved the world from a machine with the intent and capability to destroy humanity.
Scott is a hero. Period
So you condone a murder while bringing flimsy excuses. Scott is a morally bankrupt murderer, evidenced by his actions and justifications. Period.
What defines murder? A human being? A sapient being? Zeke was showing signs of sapience, being equal in all other regards to humanity. The only difference being that his being wasn’t biological. People are after all, just biological and chemical robots with poorly understood code.
People have used similar excuses for atrocities throughout history. Because to them, their victims weren’t people or human, so it wasn’t murder.
I don’t agree with your entire statement, but you do bring up a very good point that people claiming Scott crossed a line are missing. Zeke is not a human. Whatever existence is there is undefined in the world. Obviously Ethan has his own beliefs on the matter, but so does Scott. As readers, it’s easy to bias ourselves towards the more hopeful interpretation, but if we were really stuck in the situation without the higher narrative viewpoint being cynical about it isn’t unreasonable.
I think this arc was created because Tim was tired of the folks that felt one side of the other was 100% right. They are both right, and both wrong. Hopefully they end up working together to openly resolve both of their concerns. First step for both is finding Zeke, they can build on that.
Scott’s ideas are right but he took things too far in achieving them. Scott went even further in being wrong when he lied to both Ethan and Lucas and decided the bomb should remain in Zeke unilaterally.
Lucas was wrong to lie to Ethan but he didn’t decide this alone, he decided it with Scott and they had the majority over Ethan in that decision. When Scott did that, both Lucas and Ethan wanted the bomb removed from Zeke.
This is the gray area of a free society. On the one hand we have the freedom to be anything… on the other we have the freedom to be ANYTHING, literally anything. In free societies you have the responsibility to curb your base desires and not hurt others. Some would say we also have the responsibility to take care of others too. In a perfect society both statements would be true. Problem is no one, or thing, is perfect. This is why this grayness exist. All we can do as humans is keep pushing forward and do the best we… Read more »
The only reason Zeke hasn’t (permanently) killed, is because Ethan can’t stay dead and Lucas got lucky.
I beliebe that actions and intentions should be judged independently of outcomes. Zeke tried his hardest to become a murderer. He just didn’t succeed.
If you don:t believe it, read the comics from December 2017.
It’s irrelevant if Zeke did or did not do a thing. That’s a whataboutism.
This is about Scott, his actions, and the lies he told his friends and is now telling himself.
Scott and Zeke are at least in the same boat. Both have attempted and not succeeded to murder someone.
Can’t condemn one without condemning the other.
Scott might come out on top of this comparison though, because his attempted murder was against someone who attempted murder multiple times before and frequently threatened to do so again.
The actions of Zeke are irrelevant to the moral choices that Scott made. It’s not up to him to be judge, jury and executioner, it’s nither his right nor his position for any of those. You are defending a murderer, whose justifications are that he killed because he THOUGHT it was the right thing to do, simply because the person that he killed did something horrible as well. That’s never a justification, never a morally right choice to make. I am honestly appalled at all the people who would defend this, and extremely glad that in most developed societies in… Read more »
It’s not irrelevant, nor is it a whataboutism. Whataboutisms are used to change the subject, to make a connection that isn’t there, or to shift the blame. No one is doing that here. We’re all staying on topic, the connection between Scott and ZK is definitely there, and no one is denying Scott has made some mistakes and is partially to blame here. Scott, while biased, is LITERALLY BASING HIS DECISIONS on proven behavior from ZK. How is ZK’s behavior “irrelevant” when judging Scott then? You’re not making any sense at all. You talk about Scott’s actions as if they… Read more »
Trying to nuance the justifications of a murderer by bringing up whatever somebody else did is a whataboutism, exactly by your definition. It is also irrelevant, because what Zeke did does not matter for Scott’s morally bankrupt choices.Zeke is just a coincidental scapegoat he is projecting his own trauma on, and he would have done it regardless of Zeke’s actions. And exactly; Zeke’s actiuons warrant a legal sentence. Not a vigilante taking justice into his own hands, justifying his MURDEROUS INTENT by covering it up with emotional arguments that come down to “if only someone stopped them before!”. That’s now… Read more »
Also, just to point; I never said that Scott is beyond redemption. I have pointed out that his excuses are bullshit, and as such he is morally bankrupt murderer.
If you need to put words in my mouth to have an argument, you don’t have an argument at all.
But then again, I am very much in full disagreement with you, so I don’t believe you have any decent arguments at all anyway.
We ain’t going to find any common ground on this subject whatsoever,
He hasn’t even murdered anyone so you cannot use that term. You can try attempted murderer but even not positive that holds as he left in an existing failsafe that he did not put there himself and just didnt tell others was still on.
Not entirely irrelevant. Scott’s actions are a direct response to those attempted murders and statements about desired future murders.
Attempted. He did not kill although by leaving the failsafe in place he allowed the opportunity to occur yes. But he also didn’t manually pull the trigger.
Didn’t he modified the behaviour of that device to explode if Zeke left the room, at the very least? It’s not as if it could ever be taken as a “did nothing to help Zeke”… The steps were measured and taken, even if Scott used an already existing “trap”.
It says a LOT that Scott is self-aware enough how deep down the rabbit hole he’s in and how he wishes no one else is there with him. He knows his way of thinking is flawed, but he also feels it’s the right one. The more Scott talks, the more I see his Red Hood to Ethan’s Batman: Family who cares about each other but a core justice value keeps it strained. He’ll come around on Zeke, I’m sure….just not anytime soon. I don’t think he’d change his mind even if it showed Zeke making a selfless sacrifice situation to… Read more »
Comic sidenote: Red Hood recently gave up the guns because (to paraphrase), while he believes that there are bad people out there and that they still need to die, death has a way of radiating outward to affect other people. As such, Jason is trying to figure out a new way. Relating to this comic, this goes back to where Ethan is talking about how he knows the Sun Devils were bad people but that doesn’t stop them from being someone’s beloved friend/family member. As for Scott, I was wrong. He does see Ethan’s perspective. He is even admitting to… Read more »
When you’re drowning, you’ll grab anything, even a snake.
Love the writing, hate Scott.
Why? He is in a dark place, yet still able to see where he is and able to reason around it. He deserves empathy and understanding IMO eventhough I don’t agree with his conclusions.
A relationship requires empathy on both sides. Scott isn’t showing any empathy towards Ethan, isn’t making any effort to understand him and that’s a bad sign. Making traumas into measuring contests will sour any relationship and yet Scott doesn’t care. Now if they really want to end it all they should play Monopoly, that will do it.
He’s making a lot of assumptions about where Ethan is getting his “hope” from… without asking Ethan where he thinks it comes from. I’ve been there myself; not wanting to know anyone else’s answers, insisting you already have them, even though you freely admit that the ones you have are insufficient.
“You don’t know, but I do!”
When you stop asking questions and start making assumptions… you’re in trouble.
Reason? What he is doing is not demonstrating reason. He’s willing to kill based solely on his decision of who or what is or is not a threat. That’s not reasonable.
And he has already tried to kill a sentient being. Fuck being in a “dark place”. Scott has already crossed the line and shown he’s willing to kill.
same, exactly, but too many ppl in the comments are bloodthirsty
I really like the discussion about how the same tragedy affected 2 directly involved people with different results. Ethan’s sister death made Scott less sensitive to mankind’s flaws while making Ethan more human and trying to understand the whole human context, despite the individuals choices. They were emotionally hit differently, but how to compare the loss of a beloved wife with the loss of a beloved sister? The wife is our companion, the one we cherish and share everything about our lives… and a sister, someone we grew up with, that was there for us and vice-versa… Also, both had… Read more »
I love the tone of this storyline. The gritty shit that hides behind the glamour of the usual superhero stuff. Really matured a lot since the first version of the comic. Love it tim, keep it coming
There is one critical difference between Scott and DeathBlood (as far as we know). Deathblood targets known criminals engaged in criminal activity. Scott talks about preventing something from happening in the future, which means possibly prejudging someone who may not have even done anything yet.
If Scott really feels this way, he might as well kill Lucas and Ethan. Ethan nearly got someone killed (unintentionally), and Lucas’s arrows are deadly if his aim is off.
Scott has to stop living in the past or he’s going to be the one killing people.
I don’t – Zeke constantly talks about how they want to kill everyone. Constantly. In the past, sure, the Master was controlling their actions, but they represented themselves as being absolutely delighted at the opportunity to kill Ethan and Lucas. I could be wrong, but I don’t remember them ever expressing any remorse over that whatsoever. If somebody immediately finds a strip where Zeke said “I feel bad about putting Lucas in the hospital”, okay, then I’m wrong. I don’t agree with Scott here, but I do think everyone acting like Scott is purely prejudging Zeke, including Ethan, is choosing… Read more »
So talk with literally no action is enough for you to justify murder? Pretty dangerous precedent there.
I mean, I can’t directly point to a strip where Zeke expressed remorse over their actions, but there is this one: https://cad-comic.com/comic/analog-and-d-pad-05-19/ This one shows them saying “technically, I’m not “allowed” to kill any of you”. Either because the Master wrote it into their code, or verbally indicated that wasn’t allowed. However, since being out of the Master’s control, Zeke has many times expressed their “mission” or whatever to end human life, yet they’ve never even tried to act on it. Not even once. They never left the store to go on a mad killing spree. In fact, never even… Read more »
The whole arc where Ethan talks about how death hurts every time and Zeke goes “I’m sorry, that must be scary” was a very big point for me, and if you’re doing a track record it’s pretty shortsighted to ignore the tiny length of that track record, as Zeke is maybe one year old?
Enjoying this villain origin story? Maybe we get some penguin themed costume going on?
That’s an incredibly myopic view of the world, glasses aside and all that.
Bravo Tim, this is much better than I expected, now please land this. Show us how Ethan, Lucas, Scott, and Zeke will, eventually, find balance and peace. This conversation can’t end in a satisfying resolution. Ethan ripped up Scott’s justification script before he really got going and it almost shocked Scott into listening. However, the raw emotion on both sides means that soon they’ll realize that any more talk is pointless. I hate Scott, his reasoning is that he should kill the future to save his memory of the past. Zeke can only be a weapon to him because hope… Read more »
Only dubious example I can think of in recent history is Trump. For good or ill he really did try to make a change in how life and politics in this country works. Blew up in his face as the system fought back but he tried. All the rest talk a big game about change when they face a tough election/reelection but all are just another cog in the same corrupt machine once their position is secured.
Agreed about all of the rest. But trump literally “drained the swamp” by putting people who were very clearly corrupt in power. He put the same people he “hated” back in control. He wanted to “change things up” because as you said,he was talking a big game when he was facing a tough election/reelection. He just never left the campaign trail.
The guy who had the capital attacked is your example? Jan 6th? The guy who the rest of the g7 had to explain to that Russia wasn’t allowed to rejoin? Covfefe? Said Epstein was a terrific guy? That trump? Mango Mussolini? When did Authoritarianism become something to idolize…
To be fair, all of that are things no president in recent history did. Would have been better though, if it stayed that way.
Except there are archives of these incidents of Trump’s. Archives throughout his time, and not even done by small-time people. People fact-checking and calling out his nonsense. There was so much that shows such as John Oliver were in a Trump-Loop, issues in one sector would lead to things caused by his enabling and incompetence, and then it fed more issues in more sectors that required research, which flowed back to Trump. People get burnt out on seeing him, but his incompetence radiated like a malignant cancer. Look at various foreign sources looking in. Nowadays, you can learn a lot… Read more »
Good lord, you must be a troll. Trump has NEVER even admitted he could ever be wrong, much less actually change.
Trump is not a good example of that and is an example of someone that did the opposite and knowingly made things worse for his own profit. He has a history of screwing people over even before he was in the White House. He wanted to be a dictator and stay in power even though he lost.
The fact that Scott is able to say it like this means one of two things. He’s either so far gone that Ethan can’t possibly reach him anymore, or he’s having a breakthrough and seeing his own mistakes for what they are.
Sadly, I’m not betting on the latter
Here’s the thing, Scott, isn’t wrong per say. Stopping a threat before it can inflict harm is a positive thing. However, he’s missing the hope/potential part. Yes, Zeke is a “threat” but he’s also a chance for good, and to deny chance is where he failed. The dark inside him blinds him to that.
In all fairness, we KNOW Zeke is a threat to humanity, Zeke has expressed that themself. I know it’ll be really difficult, but I really hope Scott and Ethan find a middle ground eventually (it’d be too forced to expect that on this storyline, but I hope so eventually).
ARE they a threat though? Zeke’s never actually done anything threatening to humanity short of “grand plans” spoken to Ethan and Lucas basically. Even when they thought they had no physical limitation of space, when Scott enabled motor functions, they still chose to stay in the storage room of the shop, setting up their own sovereign kingdom. I’d say that’s a point in favour of not being so much of a threat.
I would say it is still highly debatable. Zeke never left because of their own insecurity and never caused harm but CONSTANTLY threatened people. While thats fine and jokey its also very disturbing behavior. I am not saying “What if Zeke attacked?” Im saying “Zeke constantly threatens people with serious violence” and while those threats eventually ring hollow its not ok.
While Scott somehow evolving into an antihero would be intriguing, my money is that he will find a way to the light.
Otherwise, Ethan has to invent his own gadgets, and nobody wants that.
We need the penguin
Ironically enough, anyone that condemns Scott for what basically amounts to prejudice… Should remember that such a logic also condemns ZK. After all, ZK is dangerous because he’s shown a keen interest in hurting/killing humans out of prejudice. Scott did take a step forward, in hurting ZK. But ZK has taken that step as well, by hurt at least one person (Lucas). And they both did it in a treacherous manner. I know I’m oversimplifying, in a way. But it’s there. And notice I wasn’t even counting hurting Ethan. But I should, because the fact ZK knows Ethan cannot stay… Read more »
Scott, you didn’t see where you became the thing that someone else didn’t stop beforehand.
To be fair to Scott, he DOES have a point. A Sapient Robot can be a dangerous thing.They’re stronger, tougher, smarter, and faster then humans. if Zeke ever figured out how to replicate himself, things could get Terminator real quick.
This is a big crux to this situation. Zeke has never caused serious harm to anyone, not while under their own control, but they are highly capable. Couple with that how casually they threaten violence and death on people and there would be serious cauae for concern even if Zeke WASNT a robot. Im not saying “what if zeke attacked?” Like its inevitable, im saying “zeke makes constant threats about his very serious intent to do harm to people in general”.
Exactly. even if it’s just his own weird sense of humor, you can’t just let your guard down at it.
So anything that is smarter, stronger, faster, tougher than humans deserves to die?
One, small, solace: Scott used the name ‘Zeke’.
Scott isn’t too far gone, he’s felt in a small way, the ramifications of the path he’s taken. If he continues he’ll lose friends, respect, and the legality of his actions will lead to if not villainy and/or prison time. Many bad cops go down the same path because they get tired of dealing with a weak system that lets true criminals go free and stick the self-helper in prison. They use the same logic to do some truly awful things. Planting evidence just because they think “they deserve it” or make deals with shady people to catch another. In… Read more »
I’m more invested in this comic than any tv series or movie right now.
This is perfection.
Scott’s “I saw a chance to kill in a way that I could justify to myself, and I took it for the satisfaction of righteous murder” argument is compelling, but probably not for the conclusion he thinks.
Scott almost took his own life. He doesn’t realise how lucky he is. One shot, and its over. How many times has Ethan Died? He would feel and remember every death. Even if he wanted to die, he can’t. There is no getting away from his feelings. So all he can do is try to make the world a better place.
I love how the tone in the comics shifted. Scot just became a human to most commentators. And his fear of Zeke is now suddenly understood.
Oh, I think we understood WHY before. He was just approaching it so irrationally that we didn’t accept it.
I see scott as the same evil he wants to stop and maybe should be stopped
I’m really loving this chapter. Panels 1 and 2 are especially great. Ethan pouring more whiskey for Scott shows that he’s listening to what Scott has to say, even if he will not ultimately agree. In other words, in that moment it it appears that Ethan isn’t merely reacting out of emotion. He has at least calm down enough to pour his brother a little whiskey.
I hoped that this arc would stitch the team back together, but Ethan and Scott seem to have entirely too different outlooks on things, and it may be irreconcilable.
Scott isn’t right because he’s emotional disturbed. He’s right because some men CANNOT be reasoned with. They can’t be bribed, bought, or placated. Some men want to murder you and rape your family. At that point, they eat lead. Good men don’t want to kill, their forced to to protect others and themselves. You don’t have to see them as less than human. Although some do to make them feel better. Death blood is a caricature and a straw man. You can’t punish someone for what they MIGHT do, cuz at that point they’re not guilty. You also cannot have… Read more »