Honestly finding any perfections is be easier because there’s definitely less of them. We’re not the worst country out there but we definitely could use some improvements.
Not quite. The US has a lot more (even adjusted for relative populations), but we’ve seen a few mass shootings with school shootings being very low but not unknown.
Meanwhile, people are driving trucks through entire families at religious gatherings in France, and there are cars being burned in protests in England. There are crazies everywhere. Picking one specific type of crazy is reductive, when we should all be concerned with figuring out how to prevent people from being harmed in the first place without reducing our societies into autocratic police states.
Nice try kid, but the murder rate in france like in england is 5 times lower than in the usa (just like in all western countries anyway)
We DO try to prevent those things to happen. That’s the difference.
Hi, English person here. Our doctors are very well paid despite the NHS, because that’s what taxes are for. Because rather than paying ridiculous sums for health insurance, we pay smaller amounts in taxes that fund the health service. Is it perfect? No, in fact in many ways it’s awful because of right wing governments attempting to dismantle it over the last 15 years. But I know if I go to the hospital I’ll never end up with a massive bill I can’t pay, and that the doctor treating me earns a decent living
In Canada (and I’ll speak for Ontario as I haven’t been tracking the others as much but most have the same issues), our system is creaking because the provincial governments (who are responsible) have not been keeping up with growth and not doing effective things to get more nurses and doctors and so on in at the rate needed. So we’ve got long waits for ERs and specialists and the number of folks who can’t get a G.P. is getting worse. In Ontario, we expect (from 2020 projections) to double the population by 2040. That’s not all on immigration. People… Read more »
If you want a look into what your future is looking like over in Ontario on the current track, just take a look at what Alberta’s currently sitting at. We’re the poster child for right wing governments attempting to dismantle healthcare
no its your idiot in charge that is killing your country. Liberals don’t care about anything or anyone if it doesn’t benefit themselves first and only.
In the United States, our system also makes us wait forever for treatment, and we pay for insurance as well as sometimes subsidizing with our own personal money. Literally weeks for anything that isn’t considered emergency surgery and 1-3 months to establish a primary care physician.
Its gotten to the point where US’s version of truly socialized healthcare (Veteran’s Hospitals), once considered slow, is actually outperforming private care. By a great margin even.
I mean, it is hard to compare, but it seems to me from what I read that Specialist are making 1/5th of what they do in the US. Although GPs make more then specialist, so I am having a hard time believing the figures. GPs are making around half of a US doctor makes from what I’ve read. I have said it before and I will say it again… how many of you would be willing to take a huge pay cut for the good of your country? I am pretty sure most of you would balk at that.
His point, while overly dramatic, is somewhat valid. We, as Americans, call our lowest wages “Slave Wages”. Let’s say you are an owner-operator of a truck pulling in 400k a year. Just like doctors they have major expenses to pay out from their salaries. After expenses, they make only around 85k per year. Now, if the government decided to take over all distribution networks and made every trucker a government worker as well as converting the truck to government property, what do you think they would be paying the trucker? If you guessed 85k, keep dreaming. While there are no… Read more »
Its not free, it paid for by taxes, nothing is free. Last I looked each tax payer in Canada is paying an average of 8k a year for their “free” Health care.
I’ll admit to not having actually checked the number, but it has to be lower than 8k per person. Healthcare is funded through the provinces and they definitely don’t collect 40k provincially from my family of five.
It depends how you try to quantify the number. The $8K number was in 2022 in the middle of the Covid crisis, so it’s hard to say whether it’s the norm or if higher expenditures because of a national (and global) health crisis are reflected in that number. According to Fraser Institute, roughly 25% of our collected income tax is then distributed to the provinces for healthcare. CIHI estimates roughly 8.5% of every dollar made goes towards healthcare, which results in their estimate of 21% of government spending. So like, yes, “nothing is free” but personally if I’m acknowledging that… Read more »
Just looked it up, in 2022 Canada spent 8.5K Canadian Dollars per person for healthcare
But since tax rates increase with higher income brackets, obviously not everyone paid that amount (and not everyone received $8.5k worth of healthcare)
Oh, in which case that also isn’t even taking proper population numbers into account because there’s businesses that pay tax too, so it’s definitely not 8.5K per personal income taxpayer
It’s probably means tested (because it is part of income tax). Since the provinces own the health systems mostly (division of powers), they tax for that. Medical and Education are the top two things and they probably account well over 60% together of the provincial budget.
Still, educating the next generation and healthy people are a good thing to be putting the costs.
This argument doesn’t make any sense. Of course it’s paid by taxes.
It would be a counterargument against healthcare services if not having federally-provided healthcare meant there was an $8000pp savings, but the USA, for example, is currently spending $12k/pp in tax dollars on healthcare.
Sure, and our medical billing policies are borderline illegal – we’re only JUST getting any kind of billing transparency, and my last visit to my podiatrist was self-pay, not covered by my basic Medicaid. They discounted the $200 visit fee to $100 for the self-pay. Between waste, fraud, and absurd billing practices you’re going to see gross overspending on the taxpayers’ dime. When you have a situation that calls for emergency services, you don’t get to pick and choose. You call 911, you wait for the meat wagon to show up, and you hope you can get the services covered… Read more »
You never tried a single payer. Obamacare was built on top of HMOs. That’s not the way you do it. The reconciliation costs for each would drive one to see low outcomes in that sort of system. And rolling it out with Oracle and them not being ready but went life anyway… that was idiocy. A true single payer system can be (with no profit margin to account for) much better than the experiment the US did. If you have to change HMOs (either because of job changes or because of hitting an age bracket and being forced to take… Read more »
Facts: Friend who lives in Lousianna worked for the state in the reconcilations with the HMOs. The state did a study and it showed that more than 50% of the state medical budget goes to wrangling with HMOs. You can have a VERY VERY VERY inefficient system and STILL do better than that as single payer. My cousin’s wife in Missouri needed some serious medical work. In Canada, it would have cost them about $50K CAD (at most, with all surgeries and recoveries included) but maybe a fair bit less. In the US, it was scheduled to cost over $350K… Read more »
That’s what taxes are _for_. Taking care of and educating the workforce, building a solid infrastructure, and national defense. The USA, however, seems to think that services are supposed to be handled like businesses and run at a profit, or privatized to the same effect.
I’d rather pay 20 bucks a month in taxes to go to healthcare and be able to go in and out with no issue, then go into debt for something as simple as a cyst removal any day.
More then that, i have this lovely little thing called “Empathy”. I’d rather pay 20 bucks a month so OTHER people can go into and out of the doctor’s office with no issue, then have them go bankrupt for something as simple as a cyst removal.
I don’t want people to go broke because they needed medical attention.
and we all are good with it being paid by taxes
I’d rather have higher taxes than a system like in the usa.
Even if you triple my pay and delete all my taxes I wouldnt want to live in the states.
BakaGrappler
1 month ago
I think everyone is forgetting one key statistic. The fact that the single most important qualifier to surviving major illness is getting treated in the United States. And all that free medicine everyone gets? It was invented in America.
Yes, it sucks to have to pay for services. But that’s how you actually get products in the first place.
And you know why all those countries can pay for their “Free” Health Care with the tax payer’s money? Because America had been footing the bill for your NATO military for decades. So, you’re welcome twice over now.
He’s right though. There’s a reason why the US spends more money on it’s military than it’s next ten allies. It’s because the next ten allies don’t contribute it’s fair share to NATO and the US takes up the slack. I’m from Ireland and my actual name is Sujad.
Leftie here, not sure what standards you’re referring to, but you’re clearly a troll and if you don’t take human rights seriously then who gives a fuck if you get them? I don’t believe you’re from Ireland and I don’t believe your real name is Sujad. If you’d like to drop your pronouns I’m down to misgender you so you can feel perfectly offended like the snowflake you’re presenting yourself as
My name is Sujad and I am from Ireland. I’m also making fun of the above guy with leftist nonsense because it’s hilarious how progs will commit the very things they accuse others of and pretend to be moral adjudicators that get to decide what is and isn’t moral.
How does bias affect what he said? He’s biased towards one solution, you’re biased towards another.
Nobody is unbiased, but almost nobody is willing to admit their bias.
The republic’s document left in ways to be changed. If you truly stand by that document then you recognize that the people who authored it recognized it was incomplete.
Thing is, Bismarck’s health insurance was essentially a single-payer system on a local scale (as part of the employment relationship). Employers provided 1/3, workers provided 2/3 to a common fund from which workers could draw when they went sick.
Bismarck’s system was still tied to employment. It took years more until new systems were enacted for entire countries and until there was any sort of universal healthcare.
Let’s get to your “statistics” one by one. Statement: “The single most important qualifier to surviving major illness is getting treated in the United States. “ Answer: No, the US ranks 46th in life expectancy globally, behind many other developed nations. A study published in The BMJ found that the US ranked last among 11 high-income countries in overall healthcare performance. So, in actuality, it’s the opposite. You don’t have to be in the US if you want to survive major illness. Statement: “All that free medicine everyone gets? It was invented in America.” Answer: While the US is a… Read more »
If it makes you feel any better, I’m American and I was already aware of all this. We’re not all ignorant enough to think America’s leading the world in standard of living. A lot of people here are just incredibly indoctrinated and have never stepped foot outside their local bubble, so they don’t understand how the real world works. They’re basically giant-sized children. It’s not just healthcare, we’re even worse when it comes to education. Look at our math literacy, it’s terrible. The only education reform initiative that’s ever shown any success in America is the Common Core standards, which… Read more »
Unfortunately that is the sad reality of the current state of affairs in America. The older generation scorns improvement because “I suffered through X, so the younger generation needs to suffer through X too” mentality.
And unfortunately, uneducated parents will mostly end up raising uneducated children, so even when the older generation dies off, the state of things won’t really improve all that much.
Not as high as could it be. Which is causing that some services are getting worse, but the “I’m going to low your taxes without telling you where I will cut or what will stop financing” is an easy one and give you a lot if votes. Then when the health center closes because there is no money the people tear their hair off, but then start the “i had to close it because other invented problem, but don’t want al my new rich friends (votes) to pay more taxes again”
Check out the average per-capita spending on health insurance compared to wages for different countries and you’ll see that health insurance is ridiculously expensive in the USA and still the USA doesn’t have deductible-free health care for everyone.
The main reason are for-profit insurances (which, surprise, surprise want their for-profit piece of the cake) and the fact that small insurance companies are have much less leverage in medicine price negotiations than large single-payer systems.
You don’t pay less taxes than I do, but you get much less out of it because you need to feed the rich.
Oh undoubtedly. I’ve worked in IT for a pharma company. Several software packages that range annually from 20k to 30k per license, per computer, for teams of two to three dozens. Absurdly expensive specialist machines and clean rooms. I’ve d to one support for their state of the company events and seen their expenses for developing drugs, legal teams in every country they do business in etc vs the profits they make. It’s a lot tighter than most people realise. You’re also right about smaller insurance companies having a helluva fight but that’s down to excessive regulations. Larger companies like… Read more »
A bit on the high side (though they go to LOTS of things, not only healthcare), and the current inflation sure hasn’t helped, but we can still live comfortably working one job, and we don’t have to worry about going bankrupt if we get sick and never have to ponder if we can afford an ambulance ride or not (spoiler: we always can, because it’s a nominal fee – around $15).
Taxes suck, yes. The peace of mind when we get sick is worth it though.
I’ll acknowledge “developing” cures first is VERY important, but that happens in every country that has research hospitals. Also NATO is “recommended” to spend %2 of their each GDP towards THEIR OWN military (and then come to each others aid when an article is politically exercised). It’s our own choice here in “freedom land” to be able to kick the next 2 biggest air forces out of the sky (by our selves).
Ah yes, Penicillin. Well known to be discoverered in the USA amongst many other important medicine advancements.
The single most significant qualifier for advancements of medicine is global contributions of which the USA is a part of. It has nothing to do with its citizens paying for Healthcare.
Remember the movie U-571? An American triumph. Look at the credits – every last ship involved in capturing enigma parts had the prefix H M S. Not a U S N anywhere.
Why? Because Americans don’t go to see movies about other people (unlike most of the rest of the world). So they rethemed it into an American hero and hey, monies!
Replying with respect to your comment, because it’s partially true, but it’s also partially false. What is true is that: (1) the US pays more for its military than the other countries and (2) healthcare always costs you money. There are two questions there: 1) can we have healthcare AND a military? The answer, in my view, should be yes: the military is funded from taxes. HEalthcare actually isn’t – it’s funded via social security payments, which are additional to taxes, but are separate. Even if you quintuple your military budget, that will affect, say, education, culture, transport, bla bla,… Read more »
What you say has some strong points. One thing you didn’t cover exactly is the problems that happen when you build a universal coverage ON TOP of HMOs instead of coming up with a ground-up solution. You have the WORST of both worlds then and that can’t help but seem bloated and wasteful. You also haven’t mentioned that for profit medicine tends (depending on the polity) to be able to be lobbied and to get bonuses for pushing particular brands and to suggest to patients they might want where normally a doctor or a clinic involved that was not for… Read more »
That is not accurate at all. If it was, the American taxpayer would be paying more per capita for their healthcare than most European countries. Yes, I’m including the fact that you pay your own insurance for healthcare. That’s how inefficient the American system is. If you did proper reform, you could have your cake and eat it too. Also, other countries have invented Healthcare treatments as well. It’s not just an American thing. The only American thing is that you overcharge and underregulate things so much that it’s a complete mess that ultimately costs the American taxpayer an enormous… Read more »
Friend’s wife worked for the state of Louisiana in reconciliation with HMOs. The state paid for a study of how much of the state’s health budget went to the legal side vs. actual medicine. It was over half in wrangling with the HMOs. You can have a really lousy single payer system with all sorts of inefficiencies and STILL be cheaper than the for profit system. As you say, if the US would go through a real revamp from the ground up (AND stop trying to shove the entire system out across the country …. that f-up with ORACLE was… Read more »
I wasn’t aware that NATO had a military to be fair, but on the flip side I would assume that if the states has been footing the bill, then it’s not actually the NATO military but just another arm of the US military. Thing’s like a dang hydra
You are so full of shit it hurts, seriously. You know absolutely nothing. You are historically illiterate, and it shows.
Seriously at least open a wikipedia article before talking next time.
Flanker
1 month ago
He clearly does not know about the quality of the free Hungarian health care in 2024 😀
‘Government hacks game file to save healthcare system! One analyst remarks:’Mother of God it was in front of us the whole time!’
toughluck
1 month ago
Free healthcare isn’t of course free, and not just in the sense that you’re paying for it with your social insurance. There are three other factors that people often overlook: You get a number in a line and you have to wait to be admitted. In case of some diseases, your prognosis worsens literally every day that you go untreated. There’s a monthly/annual patient quota for consultations and a financial quota above which no further payments from a central fund will be provided and treatment will be refused. If a patient is refused treatment, if treatment fails, if there’s malpractice…… Read more »
Don’t know where you live…but points 2 and 3 in Spain don’t happen, in fact mostly of private insurance are “oh…you have THIS illness, well, you can pay a 1000% more next month or go to health service (where that gave illness will have priority and treated very soon, I know this because I work in oncology and believe a lot of private patients are treated and have their surgeries in the free hospital where I work). Point 1 is complicated, a private service no doubt will do all the test probably a lot faster (no always, that is not… Read more »
speaking as someone in the US I’ve had to wait weeks to see a doctor, I’ve had to go without treatment for years because I couldn’t afford insurance, I’ve been given bills costing more than my car when a condition got so bad organs started necrotizing and emergency surgery became necessary, and now that I have insurance it’s still often too expensive for me to get treated. just last week I was quoted $3000 out of pocket for medical equipment I just have to go without now
I’d consider all of those mostly flaws with the execution, not the model. 1. This is just an issue of too many patients and not enough medics. Making patients unable to afford healthcare does change that ratio to shorten queues, but that’s not really an improvement in terms of healthcate provided. 2. How is that functionally different from being denied treatment because you’re out of money? 3. That sounds like the issue is the lack of proper (enforced) regulation, and that feels like it should be easier with governmental healthcare. Also Private healthcare has a similar problem, since they have… Read more »
Assuming you can afford the private insurers, of course.
That’s the key difference between tax funded healthcare and private insurer healthcare, is the former is for everyone and the latter is for upper-middle-class and above
So it comes down to whether you value human life and community, or profits and individualism
I’m British. The NHS leaves a lot to be desired. But my fiancé is in America and in many ways the healthcare there is actual worse. (Not all ways, access to therapy through insurance is ridiculously easy but access to therapy through the NHS is like winning the lottery). 20 years ago the NHS was a lot better than it is now, but unfortunately the creeping rot of late stage capitalism is infecting this bastion of socialism and 15 odd years of conservative rule has left it floundering a little. But I still know I can get treated for free… Read more »
1980s healthcare law signed by Reagan says no one can be denied *treatment* at a hospital. However, they can be driven to crippling medical debt/bankruptcy when they get the bill. Not sure how effective the treatment is required to be. But there is a lot of regulation and policy around treatment in the US. Just as there is in “free” healthcare countries. And the reality is not everyone can get the very best in *either* single-payer or the US system. Neither will ever have the staff or the funds. The question is who gets it. In the US, you pay… Read more »
1980s healthcare law signed by Reagan says no one can be denied *treatment* at a hospital. Yes and no. If you have an illness that is obviously threatening, the hospital cannot turn you away. For anything that is not immediate and overt illness? It gets much murkier. Just as an example, someone I know has been suffering from chronic pain for the last year or so. Their doctor recommended getting an MRI as part of diagnosis, to figure out what was wrong and establish treatment. The insurance decided the MRI was not medically relevant and not covered, overruling the Doctor… Read more »
But they still don’t make you pay up front. Yes it can be crippling medical debt. Elsewhere you often wait years if you can even get the MRI *at all*.
Free only works for the minor stuff. For the big expensive stuff, SOMEONE has to pay for it. And not even the government can supply it or pay for it for everyone.
I’ll take subpar over going homeless because an annual checkup bankrupted me
Like this “good” healthcare you’re saying we don’t have isn’t something I’d get either way. If it stops getting funded by taxes than I just become sick all the time. Can barely afford rent on my paycheque as is
Mildar
1 month ago
How the hell did simple comic joke inspired so much bickering about health system.. Whatever your opinion there are better places to argue people.
So far I must confess that I am mildly disappointed that there is no discussion over whether Canada does in fact still exist. But I suppose that there’s still time for the internet to come through….
ThatGuy
1 month ago
Yeah, but these games are set in America where profit is more important than the cure, so….
robin
1 month ago
a lot of trash comments in these comments
Roma
1 month ago
Can we focus on the part where Ethan is trying to go back to superheroing without his powers, instead of fighting over free healthcare?
Not so super without the powers. That doesn’t stop non supers from putting themselves at risk to help others. Plenty of disaster volunteers stepping up to help those in need as a good example.
naustghoul
1 month ago
Huh… will the computer run so long that the people (that survive) reach the singularity and come looking for the “benefactor?”
Only game time will tell. Anyhow, going to go play the F*@#($&in hell outta the Factorio DLC now 😀
This is the comment this comment section deserves.
Also playing the hell out of the Factorio DLC. Did you toss all your old blueprints or are you trying to evolve them into servicable designs for the new engine?
Derfman
1 month ago
So, the uninsured rate in the US is around 7.7 percent. A third of Americans are receiving Government healthcare for free(like me) or at a reduced rate, like my father. I am a vet and get my healthcare through the VA. My father is on Medicare. Several of my 5 sisters took advantage of Medicaid when they were younger. I have worked in the Healthcare system and will admit it is flawed. I have also lived in Portugal and saw the flaws to their free healthcare system. My Ex-wife is from Portugal and now works in a hospital here. When… Read more »
Solution- recreate the formula that the troll used, inject it into Lucas. If Lucas loses his powers you know it’s the real deal and you can both retire from the superhero biz and Lucas gets to keep his new relationship anxiety free. If he doesn’t, you’re in the clear to resume death defying stunts
Pyre
1 month ago
Wow, this blew up rather badly.
Having dealt with healthcare in Canada, Germany, and the U.S., I’d add more to this comment about their relative strengths and weaknesses but I kinda feel like the conversation is past the point of diminishing returns.
Freddie!
1 month ago
Canada does not exist; It never did. Canada is, and always has been, a mass hallucination!
BakaGrappler
1 month ago
You know what? Against my better judgement, I’m gonna make a second post. I’m quite happy to see the mass downvoting I got for stating, basically, facts. Because facts don’t care about your feelings. I’ve spent the last eight years working retail pharmacies, and I’ve been handling the cost and insurance of prescription medication for your average customers the entire time. I think I have a handle on the medication side of things in terms of cost/benefit for ongoing preventative medical care. If you’re doing it right, medicine isn’t expensive. The main maintenance medications typically come out to an out… Read more »
Daniel
30 days ago
I just want to know what’s gonna happen i never played 2 point before, I assume that is what he’s playing
jonathan corbett
28 days ago
Free healthcare is driving the medical professions OUT of Canada, to where they actually get paid what they are worth. Canadian healthcare is a joke! Here, you’re lucky if they have more than a bandage to spare for anything non-life-threatening.
24
Not only Canada, but every first world country save one. And a lot of non-first world countries too.
yeah, they got school shooting and no healthcare, here we got healthcare and no school shooting
but to each his own I guess
But who can say which is better, right?
From the dislikes I’m guessing my sarcrasm didn’t come through right lol
Nah those were just ‘Muricans. They don’t like being called out on their “imperfections”.
As an American I take offen……wait. WHAT is a group of fish called?….Grab the AKs boys we’re planting freedom seeds!!!
Honestly finding any perfections is be easier because there’s definitely less of them. We’re not the worst country out there but we definitely could use some improvements.
should have added the 😉 smilie
Not quite. The US has a lot more (even adjusted for relative populations), but we’ve seen a few mass shootings with school shootings being very low but not unknown.
Meanwhile, people are driving trucks through entire families at religious gatherings in France, and there are cars being burned in protests in England. There are crazies everywhere. Picking one specific type of crazy is reductive, when we should all be concerned with figuring out how to prevent people from being harmed in the first place without reducing our societies into autocratic police states.
Nice try kid, but the murder rate in france like in england is 5 times lower than in the usa (just like in all western countries anyway)
We DO try to prevent those things to happen. That’s the difference.
MAID.
Doctors should not be slaves.
Hi, English person here. Our doctors are very well paid despite the NHS, because that’s what taxes are for. Because rather than paying ridiculous sums for health insurance, we pay smaller amounts in taxes that fund the health service. Is it perfect? No, in fact in many ways it’s awful because of right wing governments attempting to dismantle it over the last 15 years. But I know if I go to the hospital I’ll never end up with a massive bill I can’t pay, and that the doctor treating me earns a decent living
In Canada (and I’ll speak for Ontario as I haven’t been tracking the others as much but most have the same issues), our system is creaking because the provincial governments (who are responsible) have not been keeping up with growth and not doing effective things to get more nurses and doctors and so on in at the rate needed. So we’ve got long waits for ERs and specialists and the number of folks who can’t get a G.P. is getting worse. In Ontario, we expect (from 2020 projections) to double the population by 2040. That’s not all on immigration. People… Read more »
If you want a look into what your future is looking like over in Ontario on the current track, just take a look at what Alberta’s currently sitting at. We’re the poster child for right wing governments attempting to dismantle healthcare
no its your idiot in charge that is killing your country. Liberals don’t care about anything or anyone if it doesn’t benefit themselves first and only.
not sure if I can argue against this, but like it goes double for the conservatives so like, a doomed if you do doomed if you don’t scenario
… you failed civics, didn’t you?
In the United States, our system also makes us wait forever for treatment, and we pay for insurance as well as sometimes subsidizing with our own personal money. Literally weeks for anything that isn’t considered emergency surgery and 1-3 months to establish a primary care physician.
Its gotten to the point where US’s version of truly socialized healthcare (Veteran’s Hospitals), once considered slow, is actually outperforming private care. By a great margin even.
I mean, it is hard to compare, but it seems to me from what I read that Specialist are making 1/5th of what they do in the US. Although GPs make more then specialist, so I am having a hard time believing the figures. GPs are making around half of a US doctor makes from what I’ve read. I have said it before and I will say it again… how many of you would be willing to take a huge pay cut for the good of your country? I am pretty sure most of you would balk at that.
we, specialists are in the top 10% of best income for most speciality here in france so if us dr make 5times more maybe they earn too much money
How could you possibly make the leap from universal healthcare to slavery? You know that government workers get paid right?
Because Rand Paul, a Doctor who is also a Senator, has made this argument many times. It’s a dumb argument, but people repeat it.
His point, while overly dramatic, is somewhat valid. We, as Americans, call our lowest wages “Slave Wages”. Let’s say you are an owner-operator of a truck pulling in 400k a year. Just like doctors they have major expenses to pay out from their salaries. After expenses, they make only around 85k per year. Now, if the government decided to take over all distribution networks and made every trucker a government worker as well as converting the truck to government property, what do you think they would be paying the trucker? If you guessed 85k, keep dreaming. While there are no… Read more »
Lol, so 25 people think that doctors SHOULD be slaves? /jk Yes, commenter should be downvoted for being overly simplistic and dramatic.
Nice try with the straw man.
Wow, so you have no idea what a /jk means. I made it clear that I was JOKING. Some people.
Free health care doesn’t mean doctors work for free.
if you think doctors are slaves in europe you may want to think again
Its not free, it paid for by taxes, nothing is free. Last I looked each tax payer in Canada is paying an average of 8k a year for their “free” Health care.
Interesting how fast we hit rock bottom in regards to clueless right-wing talking points.
I’ll admit to not having actually checked the number, but it has to be lower than 8k per person. Healthcare is funded through the provinces and they definitely don’t collect 40k provincially from my family of five.
It depends how you try to quantify the number. The $8K number was in 2022 in the middle of the Covid crisis, so it’s hard to say whether it’s the norm or if higher expenditures because of a national (and global) health crisis are reflected in that number. According to Fraser Institute, roughly 25% of our collected income tax is then distributed to the provinces for healthcare. CIHI estimates roughly 8.5% of every dollar made goes towards healthcare, which results in their estimate of 21% of government spending. So like, yes, “nothing is free” but personally if I’m acknowledging that… Read more »
Just looked it up, in 2022 Canada spent 8.5K Canadian Dollars per person for healthcare
But since tax rates increase with higher income brackets, obviously not everyone paid that amount (and not everyone received $8.5k worth of healthcare)
Oh, in which case that also isn’t even taking proper population numbers into account because there’s businesses that pay tax too, so it’s definitely not 8.5K per personal income taxpayer
It’s probably means tested (because it is part of income tax). Since the provinces own the health systems mostly (division of powers), they tax for that. Medical and Education are the top two things and they probably account well over 60% together of the provincial budget.
Still, educating the next generation and healthy people are a good thing to be putting the costs.
Only $8K, jeez that’s awesome! Cause we pay way more than thst when you factor in insurance premiums.
This argument doesn’t make any sense. Of course it’s paid by taxes.
It would be a counterargument against healthcare services if not having federally-provided healthcare meant there was an $8000pp savings, but the USA, for example, is currently spending $12k/pp in tax dollars on healthcare.
Sure, and our medical billing policies are borderline illegal – we’re only JUST getting any kind of billing transparency, and my last visit to my podiatrist was self-pay, not covered by my basic Medicaid. They discounted the $200 visit fee to $100 for the self-pay. Between waste, fraud, and absurd billing practices you’re going to see gross overspending on the taxpayers’ dime. When you have a situation that calls for emergency services, you don’t get to pick and choose. You call 911, you wait for the meat wagon to show up, and you hope you can get the services covered… Read more »
You never tried a single payer. Obamacare was built on top of HMOs. That’s not the way you do it. The reconciliation costs for each would drive one to see low outcomes in that sort of system. And rolling it out with Oracle and them not being ready but went life anyway… that was idiocy. A true single payer system can be (with no profit margin to account for) much better than the experiment the US did. If you have to change HMOs (either because of job changes or because of hitting an age bracket and being forced to take… Read more »
I don’t think they understand the whole _point_ of taxes.
…Which is *still less* than what you’d pay after insurance premiums and non-coverage costs.
oh sweet mother of god I PAY MORE FOR HEALTH INSURANCE PREMIUMS THAN 8k!!! that’s not counting co-pays and deductible.
And the average insured person in America is paying 13k per year for their not free health care. I’ll take the 8k in taxes instead.
It’s even lower in the UK, I’m on about twice the average income and I’m paying £2.5k a year.
Facts: Friend who lives in Lousianna worked for the state in the reconcilations with the HMOs. The state did a study and it showed that more than 50% of the state medical budget goes to wrangling with HMOs. You can have a VERY VERY VERY inefficient system and STILL do better than that as single payer. My cousin’s wife in Missouri needed some serious medical work. In Canada, it would have cost them about $50K CAD (at most, with all surgeries and recoveries included) but maybe a fair bit less. In the US, it was scheduled to cost over $350K… Read more »
That’s what taxes are _for_. Taking care of and educating the workforce, building a solid infrastructure, and national defense. The USA, however, seems to think that services are supposed to be handled like businesses and run at a profit, or privatized to the same effect.
I’d rather pay 20 bucks a month in taxes to go to healthcare and be able to go in and out with no issue, then go into debt for something as simple as a cyst removal any day.
More then that, i have this lovely little thing called “Empathy”. I’d rather pay 20 bucks a month so OTHER people can go into and out of the doctor’s office with no issue, then have them go bankrupt for something as simple as a cyst removal.
I don’t want people to go broke because they needed medical attention.
is that counting businesses as taxpayers too?
Americans pay more for their healthcare than everyone else in the developed world mate, all factors accounted for.
and we all are good with it being paid by taxes
I’d rather have higher taxes than a system like in the usa.
Even if you triple my pay and delete all my taxes I wouldnt want to live in the states.
I think everyone is forgetting one key statistic. The fact that the single most important qualifier to surviving major illness is getting treated in the United States. And all that free medicine everyone gets? It was invented in America.
Yes, it sucks to have to pay for services. But that’s how you actually get products in the first place.
And you know why all those countries can pay for their “Free” Health Care with the tax payer’s money? Because America had been footing the bill for your NATO military for decades. So, you’re welcome twice over now.
You sure sound like a well-informed and unbiased individual with an opinion worth listening to.
He’s right though. There’s a reason why the US spends more money on it’s military than it’s next ten allies. It’s because the next ten allies don’t contribute it’s fair share to NATO and the US takes up the slack. I’m from Ireland and my actual name is Sujad.
You sure sound like a well-informed and unbiased individual with an opinion worth listening to.
Yes and no and yes.
and you George sound like a mouth breathing liberal who has no thoughts of his own
Said the guy who can’t even spell his name with a capital letter.
you speak exactly like every maga i’ve met but we are the one with no thoughts of our own
sure thing kiddo
Stupid Uneducated Joker And Dweeb?
Or is that not what Sujad stands for?
No, it’s my name. By the standards of the left, I believe you’ve committed a racism.
Leftie here, not sure what standards you’re referring to, but you’re clearly a troll and if you don’t take human rights seriously then who gives a fuck if you get them? I don’t believe you’re from Ireland and I don’t believe your real name is Sujad. If you’d like to drop your pronouns I’m down to misgender you so you can feel perfectly offended like the snowflake you’re presenting yourself as
My name is Sujad and I am from Ireland. I’m also making fun of the above guy with leftist nonsense because it’s hilarious how progs will commit the very things they accuse others of and pretend to be moral adjudicators that get to decide what is and isn’t moral.
do we even know if phukkofyesyou is a leftist?
maybe if you didnt went to useless wars based on lies like in iraq, you wouldnt have those kind of problem. Not to mention vietnam & cie.
How does bias affect what he said? He’s biased towards one solution, you’re biased towards another.
Nobody is unbiased, but almost nobody is willing to admit their bias.
Say you’re American (and Trump voter) without saying you’re American… 😉
I stand with the Republic and the documentation it’s founded on. Government needs to be put back inside the confines of its original packaging.
I’m sure you’re not voting for a wannabe dictator, then, and you support our founding tradition of immigration.
The republic’s document left in ways to be changed. If you truly stand by that document then you recognize that the people who authored it recognized it was incomplete.
I assume you don’t like facts, but here you get some anyway:
I could bring up more, but this should be sufficiant to prove your point wrong 😉
Thing is, Bismarck’s health insurance was essentially a single-payer system on a local scale (as part of the employment relationship). Employers provided 1/3, workers provided 2/3 to a common fund from which workers could draw when they went sick.
Bismarck’s system was still tied to employment. It took years more until new systems were enacted for entire countries and until there was any sort of universal healthcare.
None of that disproves what he said.
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Let’s get to your “statistics” one by one. Statement: “The single most important qualifier to surviving major illness is getting treated in the United States. “ Answer: No, the US ranks 46th in life expectancy globally, behind many other developed nations. A study published in The BMJ found that the US ranked last among 11 high-income countries in overall healthcare performance. So, in actuality, it’s the opposite. You don’t have to be in the US if you want to survive major illness. Statement: “All that free medicine everyone gets? It was invented in America.” Answer: While the US is a… Read more »
If it makes you feel any better, I’m American and I was already aware of all this. We’re not all ignorant enough to think America’s leading the world in standard of living. A lot of people here are just incredibly indoctrinated and have never stepped foot outside their local bubble, so they don’t understand how the real world works. They’re basically giant-sized children. It’s not just healthcare, we’re even worse when it comes to education. Look at our math literacy, it’s terrible. The only education reform initiative that’s ever shown any success in America is the Common Core standards, which… Read more »
Unfortunately that is the sad reality of the current state of affairs in America. The older generation scorns improvement because “I suffered through X, so the younger generation needs to suffer through X too” mentality.
And unfortunately, uneducated parents will mostly end up raising uneducated children, so even when the older generation dies off, the state of things won’t really improve all that much.
But one can hope I suppose.
We’ve had free healthcare for decades, didn’t join NATO until this decade.
People have survived major illnesses here without a need to go to the US.
What else do you have?
What are your taxes like?
Not as high as could it be. Which is causing that some services are getting worse, but the “I’m going to low your taxes without telling you where I will cut or what will stop financing” is an easy one and give you a lot if votes. Then when the health center closes because there is no money the people tear their hair off, but then start the “i had to close it because other invented problem, but don’t want al my new rich friends (votes) to pay more taxes again”
Check out the average per-capita spending on health insurance compared to wages for different countries and you’ll see that health insurance is ridiculously expensive in the USA and still the USA doesn’t have deductible-free health care for everyone.
The main reason are for-profit insurances (which, surprise, surprise want their for-profit piece of the cake) and the fact that small insurance companies are have much less leverage in medicine price negotiations than large single-payer systems.
You don’t pay less taxes than I do, but you get much less out of it because you need to feed the rich.
Oh undoubtedly. I’ve worked in IT for a pharma company. Several software packages that range annually from 20k to 30k per license, per computer, for teams of two to three dozens. Absurdly expensive specialist machines and clean rooms. I’ve d to one support for their state of the company events and seen their expenses for developing drugs, legal teams in every country they do business in etc vs the profits they make. It’s a lot tighter than most people realise. You’re also right about smaller insurance companies having a helluva fight but that’s down to excessive regulations. Larger companies like… Read more »
What are your premiums, copays, and deductibles like?
A bit on the high side (though they go to LOTS of things, not only healthcare), and the current inflation sure hasn’t helped, but we can still live comfortably working one job, and we don’t have to worry about going bankrupt if we get sick and never have to ponder if we can afford an ambulance ride or not (spoiler: we always can, because it’s a nominal fee – around $15).
Taxes suck, yes. The peace of mind when we get sick is worth it though.
I’m happy to pay taxes tho
I’d rather pay than have an american-like system
I’ll acknowledge “developing” cures first is VERY important, but that happens in every country that has research hospitals. Also NATO is “recommended” to spend %2 of their each GDP towards THEIR OWN military (and then come to each others aid when an article is politically exercised). It’s our own choice here in “freedom land” to be able to kick the next 2 biggest air forces out of the sky (by our selves).
Ah yes, Penicillin. Well known to be discoverered in the USA amongst many other important medicine advancements.
The single most significant qualifier for advancements of medicine is global contributions of which the USA is a part of. It has nothing to do with its citizens paying for Healthcare.
Except that penicillin was discovered by British scientists.. Check the 1945 Nobel price for medicine if you think otherwise.
yes, that was the sarcasm
Remember the movie U-571? An American triumph. Look at the credits – every last ship involved in capturing enigma parts had the prefix H M S. Not a U S N anywhere.
Why? Because Americans don’t go to see movies about other people (unlike most of the rest of the world). So they rethemed it into an American hero and hey, monies!
It’s a very limited world view for some.
Fortunately, not the majority.
Goddamn… the stupid is strong with this one…
Replying with respect to your comment, because it’s partially true, but it’s also partially false. What is true is that: (1) the US pays more for its military than the other countries and (2) healthcare always costs you money. There are two questions there: 1) can we have healthcare AND a military? The answer, in my view, should be yes: the military is funded from taxes. HEalthcare actually isn’t – it’s funded via social security payments, which are additional to taxes, but are separate. Even if you quintuple your military budget, that will affect, say, education, culture, transport, bla bla,… Read more »
What you say has some strong points. One thing you didn’t cover exactly is the problems that happen when you build a universal coverage ON TOP of HMOs instead of coming up with a ground-up solution. You have the WORST of both worlds then and that can’t help but seem bloated and wasteful. You also haven’t mentioned that for profit medicine tends (depending on the polity) to be able to be lobbied and to get bonuses for pushing particular brands and to suggest to patients they might want where normally a doctor or a clinic involved that was not for… Read more »
That is not accurate at all. If it was, the American taxpayer would be paying more per capita for their healthcare than most European countries. Yes, I’m including the fact that you pay your own insurance for healthcare. That’s how inefficient the American system is. If you did proper reform, you could have your cake and eat it too. Also, other countries have invented Healthcare treatments as well. It’s not just an American thing. The only American thing is that you overcharge and underregulate things so much that it’s a complete mess that ultimately costs the American taxpayer an enormous… Read more »
Friend’s wife worked for the state of Louisiana in reconciliation with HMOs. The state paid for a study of how much of the state’s health budget went to the legal side vs. actual medicine. It was over half in wrangling with the HMOs. You can have a really lousy single payer system with all sorts of inefficiencies and STILL be cheaper than the for profit system. As you say, if the US would go through a real revamp from the ground up (AND stop trying to shove the entire system out across the country …. that f-up with ORACLE was… Read more »
*coughs in Canadian insulin*
I wasn’t aware that NATO had a military to be fair, but on the flip side I would assume that if the states has been footing the bill, then it’s not actually the NATO military but just another arm of the US military. Thing’s like a dang hydra
You are so full of shit it hurts, seriously. You know absolutely nothing. You are historically illiterate, and it shows.
Seriously at least open a wikipedia article before talking next time.
He clearly does not know about the quality of the free Hungarian health care in 2024 😀
oh, there are other Hungarians reading CAD? Nice!
‘Government hacks game file to save healthcare system! One analyst remarks:’Mother of God it was in front of us the whole time!’
Free healthcare isn’t of course free, and not just in the sense that you’re paying for it with your social insurance. There are three other factors that people often overlook: You get a number in a line and you have to wait to be admitted. In case of some diseases, your prognosis worsens literally every day that you go untreated. There’s a monthly/annual patient quota for consultations and a financial quota above which no further payments from a central fund will be provided and treatment will be refused. If a patient is refused treatment, if treatment fails, if there’s malpractice…… Read more »
Don’t know where you live…but points 2 and 3 in Spain don’t happen, in fact mostly of private insurance are “oh…you have THIS illness, well, you can pay a 1000% more next month or go to health service (where that gave illness will have priority and treated very soon, I know this because I work in oncology and believe a lot of private patients are treated and have their surgeries in the free hospital where I work). Point 1 is complicated, a private service no doubt will do all the test probably a lot faster (no always, that is not… Read more »
speaking as someone in the US I’ve had to wait weeks to see a doctor, I’ve had to go without treatment for years because I couldn’t afford insurance, I’ve been given bills costing more than my car when a condition got so bad organs started necrotizing and emergency surgery became necessary, and now that I have insurance it’s still often too expensive for me to get treated. just last week I was quoted $3000 out of pocket for medical equipment I just have to go without now
I’d consider all of those mostly flaws with the execution, not the model. 1. This is just an issue of too many patients and not enough medics. Making patients unable to afford healthcare does change that ratio to shorten queues, but that’s not really an improvement in terms of healthcate provided. 2. How is that functionally different from being denied treatment because you’re out of money? 3. That sounds like the issue is the lack of proper (enforced) regulation, and that feels like it should be easier with governmental healthcare. Also Private healthcare has a similar problem, since they have… Read more »
Assuming you can afford the private insurers, of course.
That’s the key difference between tax funded healthcare and private insurer healthcare, is the former is for everyone and the latter is for upper-middle-class and above
So it comes down to whether you value human life and community, or profits and individualism
you really are clueless
you should get out of your country sometimes, it would prevent you from being so full of crap, seriously.
US defaultism much? I’m not American.
Ha! As a Canadian I can say this. We do get “free” healthcare. However we don’t get GOOD healthcare.
Just because something is free doesn’t mean it is good.
I’m British. The NHS leaves a lot to be desired. But my fiancé is in America and in many ways the healthcare there is actual worse. (Not all ways, access to therapy through insurance is ridiculously easy but access to therapy through the NHS is like winning the lottery). 20 years ago the NHS was a lot better than it is now, but unfortunately the creeping rot of late stage capitalism is infecting this bastion of socialism and 15 odd years of conservative rule has left it floundering a little. But I still know I can get treated for free… Read more »
1980s healthcare law signed by Reagan says no one can be denied *treatment* at a hospital. However, they can be driven to crippling medical debt/bankruptcy when they get the bill. Not sure how effective the treatment is required to be. But there is a lot of regulation and policy around treatment in the US. Just as there is in “free” healthcare countries. And the reality is not everyone can get the very best in *either* single-payer or the US system. Neither will ever have the staff or the funds. The question is who gets it. In the US, you pay… Read more »
1980s healthcare law signed by Reagan says no one can be denied *treatment* at a hospital. Yes and no. If you have an illness that is obviously threatening, the hospital cannot turn you away. For anything that is not immediate and overt illness? It gets much murkier. Just as an example, someone I know has been suffering from chronic pain for the last year or so. Their doctor recommended getting an MRI as part of diagnosis, to figure out what was wrong and establish treatment. The insurance decided the MRI was not medically relevant and not covered, overruling the Doctor… Read more »
But they still don’t make you pay up front. Yes it can be crippling medical debt. Elsewhere you often wait years if you can even get the MRI *at all*.
Free only works for the minor stuff. For the big expensive stuff, SOMEONE has to pay for it. And not even the government can supply it or pay for it for everyone.
I’ll take subpar over going homeless because an annual checkup bankrupted me
Like this “good” healthcare you’re saying we don’t have isn’t something I’d get either way. If it stops getting funded by taxes than I just become sick all the time. Can barely afford rent on my paycheque as is
How the hell did simple comic joke inspired so much bickering about health system.. Whatever your opinion there are better places to argue people.
Welcome to the internet. You must be new here!
I started preparing my bucket of popcorn the second I saw the last panel.
I had the exact same thought. I clicked the button to show the comments just to see how much drama there would be but it exceeded my expectations.
So far I must confess that I am mildly disappointed that there is no discussion over whether Canada does in fact still exist. But I suppose that there’s still time for the internet to come through….
Yeah, but these games are set in America where profit is more important than the cure, so….
a lot of trash comments in these comments
Can we focus on the part where Ethan is trying to go back to superheroing without his powers, instead of fighting over free healthcare?
Not so super without the powers. That doesn’t stop non supers from putting themselves at risk to help others. Plenty of disaster volunteers stepping up to help those in need as a good example.
Huh… will the computer run so long that the people (that survive) reach the singularity and come looking for the “benefactor?”
Only game time will tell. Anyhow, going to go play the F*@#($&in hell outta the Factorio DLC now 😀
*written, but not read, by Google Gemini
This is the comment this comment section deserves.
Also playing the hell out of the Factorio DLC. Did you toss all your old blueprints or are you trying to evolve them into servicable designs for the new engine?
So, the uninsured rate in the US is around 7.7 percent. A third of Americans are receiving Government healthcare for free(like me) or at a reduced rate, like my father. I am a vet and get my healthcare through the VA. My father is on Medicare. Several of my 5 sisters took advantage of Medicaid when they were younger. I have worked in the Healthcare system and will admit it is flawed. I have also lived in Portugal and saw the flaws to their free healthcare system. My Ex-wife is from Portugal and now works in a hospital here. When… Read more »
Oh Tim… What have you done… 😅😅
Open a Pandora’s box. 😅😅
Solution- recreate the formula that the troll used, inject it into Lucas. If Lucas loses his powers you know it’s the real deal and you can both retire from the superhero biz and Lucas gets to keep his new relationship anxiety free. If he doesn’t, you’re in the clear to resume death defying stunts
Wow, this blew up rather badly.
Having dealt with healthcare in Canada, Germany, and the U.S., I’d add more to this comment about their relative strengths and weaknesses but I kinda feel like the conversation is past the point of diminishing returns.
Canada does not exist; It never did. Canada is, and always has been, a mass hallucination!
You know what? Against my better judgement, I’m gonna make a second post. I’m quite happy to see the mass downvoting I got for stating, basically, facts. Because facts don’t care about your feelings. I’ve spent the last eight years working retail pharmacies, and I’ve been handling the cost and insurance of prescription medication for your average customers the entire time. I think I have a handle on the medication side of things in terms of cost/benefit for ongoing preventative medical care. If you’re doing it right, medicine isn’t expensive. The main maintenance medications typically come out to an out… Read more »
I just want to know what’s gonna happen i never played 2 point before, I assume that is what he’s playing
Free healthcare is driving the medical professions OUT of Canada, to where they actually get paid what they are worth. Canadian healthcare is a joke! Here, you’re lucky if they have more than a bandage to spare for anything non-life-threatening.