baby steps lucas, at least now they wont be on landmines
Hunter
3 years ago
Not exactly reassuring. I may be reading too much into this but Scott didn’t actually say he would disable the failsafe, he just said they wouldn’t have to worry about it anymore.
I’ve sort of been waiting for this. In the old strip Scott was sort of an antagonist. Imagine them falling out and Scott as a new tech villain who literally designed all their tricks. Makes for a really interesting and sympathetic villain
Yes, I also read that as “Don’t worry about it, *I* will, by which I mean I’ll just leave the failsafe in place”.
Someone suggested on the last issue that it might come down to a “Someone has to leave the group, and it will be either Scott or Zeke” moment, and unfortunately, this seems what this is building towards :/
With the emphasis on “I’ll,” it sounds twofold. Either Scott is planning on doing something drastic and major (you don’t have to worry, because bot go boom) or he’s switching to a more elaborate plan that puts more responsibility on his own shoulders to manually trigger it if something goes wrong.
Either way – I feel like Lucas is now on the “outside.”
My money’s on the second scenario, since Scott probably understands by now that doing something drastic would lead to a substantial falling out with his friends. Being a programmer, though, he would likely avoid dealing with things manually.
Thank you, I thought I was the only one remembering that.
Also maybe it is relevant to point out that the old scott as an slave to the linux penguin, was enemy to anything windows, even zeke as a previous Xbox.
You know, it is entirely possible Scott is flagging an actual, present but hidden threat in terms of some form of programming not yet detected or backdoors for control not yet detected. Everyone seems to be talking of ‘They’ve got zeke now’ as if there’s no chance he still could be murderbot *even against his wishes*. The obvious move is for Scott to do something nefarious (based on prior Scott iterations). I suspect Tim may be using that past history to throw us a red herring that we think will happen based on prior knowledge. The reality is we don’t… Read more »
foducool
3 years ago
who bets zeke explodes the second he gets out?
“but you said”
“I say a lot of things, Lucas…”
Given how he lied about getting rid of the bomb in the first place, I wouldn’t take his word at fault value either. But as his friend they’re not expecting to be lied to by him.
I hope not. He already did that in the last incarnation of the web-comic and I for one would like to see a slightly different take on his character here.
I don’t think so either. Not unless the results of his actions either scar him or such. At worst outed he might get drawn in to work with Zeke’s creator to “stop Zeke”.
that seems like a highly likely outcome. IF scott is so scarred by it that he rejects a huge portion of his morality. ohh i hope scott gets in tight with numbnuts eugene and sends zeke in to play with him after realizing hes a tool.
Lo and in the horizon there comes a figure draped in black and white. Carrying his vengeance like a burning coal he will break the Gates and draw Scott to his side. For here comes…Ted
Marcus
3 years ago
oh man… i got a bad feeling bout this… like scott is gonna be the first person that zeke actually chooses to hurt, i mean, he will be emotional. but i digress.. i got a bad feeling about this.
Now that they have Zeke, technically they don’t need Scott anymore as they can take care of the tech stuff from now on. Basically, Zeke is everything Scott is but better. Might that be what’s on Scott’s mind as well?
Uhhhh, why do I have bad vibes about this? Scott, please just do what Lucas asked and don’t do what I think you’re gonna do…we got enough heroes-turned-villains out in the world as it is (played Spider-Man for Playstation for the first time a few days ago and seeing Doc Octavius’s descent into Doc Ock was nothing short of heartbreaking).
Ryan
3 years ago
I totally understand the reasoning behind the decision, but I just don’t like the they/them pronoun simply for the fact that it pulls me out of my suspension of disbelief while I try to re-process that they/them is singular in this case and refers to Zeke. My brain is still wired that they/them is plural when reading, and to use it singularly causes my mind to stutter because the sentence structure is not plural; I have to think about it to understand it, thus pulling me out of the story. I understand that it is accepted grammatically, just so uncommon… Read more »
FWIW, it’s a struggle for me too, and I can’t guarantee I someday won’t lapse and use the wrong pronoun. But it’s a valid option for someone who chooses not to be specifically gendered, and I am committed to getting used to using it in that fashion.
I personally like how the English language decided to handle it. In Germany there is a suggestion to use the pronoun “it” when you do not know the sex of a given person. Which feels weird, as if you are describing a thing, not a person. (So I could see Scott here, meaning Z-K when saying “it”).
My german is quite low level but as far as I understand the “das” which is the neutral pronoum actually has no connotation of “animal, thing or whatever”. That connotation is an english thing. On other hand in Portuguese we don’t even have a real gender neutral pronoum, so everything is either male or female even if an object based actually in sonority of the word and not just actual sex. These kinds of rules are different everywhere.
While there are exceptions (“das Kind”, “das Mädchen”), generally neutrum is understood to be “non human”, I think. Maybe not as extreme as in english, it is still an underlying thing. Calling someone “es” could potentially be extremely offensive. (As a sidenote: Actually the Stephen King book is translated literally from “It” to “Es”, and the associations still work exactly the same as in the original).
No, we are entirely used to “they/them” when the subject is entirely unknown.
“Can my cousin bring his friend to the party?”
“Sure. I hope they like pizza!”
But people get hung up when talking about a person they can picture in their head, and the instinct is to use “he/she” based on perceived gender. It’s not that the English language doesn’t account for it, it’s that some people have spent decades doing it one way, and have to unlearn it now that we have a greater understanding of gender identities.
It’s also biology. Generally, we’ve been wired throughout the span of human existence to recognize certain physical traits with male or female and when there is a mix, it feels a bit off (just because the long-held biological rules aren’t enitrely sufficient anymore). It’s the same sort of evolutionary leavings as the preference for young, healthy mates and the mating behaviour differences between men and women (I can’t say how that plays out in other genders as I’m ignorant of that). We are, at least those of us who recognize the justice and equity that demands we try, to step… Read more »
Without prying, what generation are you part of and where did you go to school? I went to school from 7-12 in AB in the mid to late 1980s. They and Them were distinctly plural only. Of course, at the time, there were a few gay or lesbian folk around, but mostly being very surreptitious because of the lack of general acceptance, and I can’t recall any other alternatives (trans, no gender, etc). I will be happy to see trans and other folks have pronouns that aren’t clunky, but for now, as confusing as it is, They/Them will likely have… Read more »
Just because it was true 40 years ago doesn’t mean that its true now. The problem lies not with the idea of learning something new, but with folks that don’t want to try because of falsely remembered rules about the word “they.” Would your high school English teacher have objected to Tim’s sentence about about pizza up above? Of course not.
Well absolutely! I’m 100% down with fantastical things, I’m an avid reader and partaker of most geekdom (I’ve read this comic for over 15 years, need I say more?). Fantastical things has no issue with suspension of disbelief, but if Tim makes a spelling mistake, my brain pulls me out of the lives of these great characters and being a part of the whole thing, and suddenly I forget about the story for a second while I overcome the speed bump that pulled me out for a second. It’s the exact same with this new pronoun usage. It’s not wrong,… Read more »
As someone who uses they/them pronouns it’s worth pointing out that singular they has been around since the 1300s, Shakespeare used it.
It fell out of disuse for known subjects but with the growing awareness that gender isn’t binary the use is growing again, and I always try and default to they/them until I know someone’s pronouns, because misgendering someone is horrible (again, speaking from experience)
All this to say that it’s ok to struggle a bit with it as you retrain your brain to use singular they, but I can almost guarantee you that you will meet people who use they/them pronouns so working to normalize it is really important
Again, this has nothing to do with normalizing anything except a change of a way of writing modern American English. The issue has not to do with gender (please don’t make anything a political/social issue here, and don’t try to bait people), its when a sentence/paragraph uses they/them in both singular and plural uses interchangeably, and you have to figure out which they is plural and which is singular in a sentence/paragraph and then read it over again once you’ve identified the subject(s) of the pronoun.
toughluck
3 years ago
Why is everyone so negative about Scott here? I for one think he’s sincere and will keep his word (and not as sort of malicious compliance, but true to the spirit of Lucas’s request).
Maybe because he already deceived them once and the way I’ll is in bold and how what he says is worded in general? Of course his face doesn’t really give that intent and this could simply be a way to have tension until Analog and D-pad returns if this is the end of the chapter.
He didn’t really deceive them, He told Lucas about it, and I suspect that they keep TONS of things from Ethan just because its Ethan. That’s like not not telling your child that there is a package or Oreo’s on top of the fridge becuase they would either pester you to death or build a leaning tower of chairs to get up there.
I’ve ALWAYS considered him a bit of a dick despite his excellent name.
Jacob
3 years ago
This is shaping up to be a good character-building moment. How does Zeke handle his first “betrayal”.
Leon
3 years ago
….People say we’re unfair to Zeke, but at least we don’t scramble for reasons bot to trust him….
The Schaef
3 years ago
Dellow Felegates…
MarlinBrando
3 years ago
Oh, Scott… What’s the penguin in your head telling you to do, now?
Kevin Greenbaum
3 years ago
I’m thinking he’s either gonna turn off the fail safe and shut Zeke down again like they did when they caught him, or we’re gonna find out how durable the stock room is in the event of a small explosion.
Kaitensatsuma
3 years ago
I appreciate that Scott is going against probably literally all of his better judgement based off both his personal experiences and also his working knowledge of programming and computers
“Scott care to rephrase that in a way that doesn’t sound ominous.”
“No”
ShonaSoF
3 years ago
This story is much more compelling than I expected it to be! I’m glad it’s more than basic superhero hijinks!
BENJAMIN SMITH
3 years ago
And so begins Scott’s villain arc…
Crestlinger
3 years ago
Dynamite is Quite safe to build on ….in space.
Lord Circe
3 years ago
And this is the danger of dogmatic thinking. You use your conclusion as a definition of reality, and you dismiss any evidence to the contrary, because you keep moving the goalposts with regards to what evidence you will accept.
HarvestDude
3 years ago
I guess Scott is about to become a Lex Luthor. A friend and ally at first and then a nemesis, right after some disaster happens…
Gamebecile
3 years ago
Y’all need to have a little more faith in Scott. He does trust Lucas. I think he’ll actually disarm the failsafe.. Just as soon as he finishes creating failsafe B: some sort of weapon for Ethan and Lucas to use in the event that Zeke went on a murder spree and the bomb didn’t do the job, which Scott started developing as soon as he got to take a close look at Zeke. His timetable for plan B has just been moved up, and he may not have time to run all the proper tests before it needs to be… Read more »
24
baby steps lucas, at least now they wont be on landmines
Not exactly reassuring. I may be reading too much into this but Scott didn’t actually say he would disable the failsafe, he just said they wouldn’t have to worry about it anymore.
I’m hearing undertones of “it” being “Zeke” as well. Methinks Scott is about to do something potentially unwise.
I hope so, the story feels like running out of cards to play…
I’ve sort of been waiting for this. In the old strip Scott was sort of an antagonist. Imagine them falling out and Scott as a new tech villain who literally designed all their tricks. Makes for a really interesting and sympathetic villain
Yes, I also read that as “Don’t worry about it, *I* will, by which I mean I’ll just leave the failsafe in place”.
Someone suggested on the last issue that it might come down to a “Someone has to leave the group, and it will be either Scott or Zeke” moment, and unfortunately, this seems what this is building towards :/
With the emphasis on “I’ll,” it sounds twofold. Either Scott is planning on doing something drastic and major (you don’t have to worry, because bot go boom) or he’s switching to a more elaborate plan that puts more responsibility on his own shoulders to manually trigger it if something goes wrong.
Either way – I feel like Lucas is now on the “outside.”
My money’s on the second scenario, since Scott probably understands by now that doing something drastic would lead to a substantial falling out with his friends. Being a programmer, though, he would likely avoid dealing with things manually.
“I’ll take care of it” I’m thinking he’s just gonna trigger it since they aren’t willing to believe “he’s too dangerous to exist”.
“You won’t have to worry about the failsafe anymore” because he’s going to blow up Zeke
Or rat him out back to Eugene
I do not trust Scott.
I keep remembering his previous version’s “Penguim Incident”
Thank you, I thought I was the only one remembering that.
Also maybe it is relevant to point out that the old scott as an slave to the linux penguin, was enemy to anything windows, even zeke as a previous Xbox.
You know, it is entirely possible Scott is flagging an actual, present but hidden threat in terms of some form of programming not yet detected or backdoors for control not yet detected. Everyone seems to be talking of ‘They’ve got zeke now’ as if there’s no chance he still could be murderbot *even against his wishes*. The obvious move is for Scott to do something nefarious (based on prior Scott iterations). I suspect Tim may be using that past history to throw us a red herring that we think will happen based on prior knowledge. The reality is we don’t… Read more »
who bets zeke explodes the second he gets out?
“but you said”
“I say a lot of things, Lucas…”
Given how he lied about getting rid of the bomb in the first place, I wouldn’t take his word at fault value either. But as his friend they’re not expecting to be lied to by him.
I would bet Zeke gets out, does not explode and says to a dumbfolded Scott “What? I bypassed that punny failsafe ages ago.”
And then he has revenge on Scott, covers up his involvement and we have a whole new skeleton in the closet…
what is zeke gonna do to scott? cure his paraplegy so he can break his spine again?
I mean, kill him?
Put his skeleton into that closet … only the skeleton
I still need to get used to Lucas referring to Zeke as “them”, since I initially think of him talking about multiple people
Well there’s the ‘Robot’ Zeke and now the ‘Switch’ Zeke. Or does Lucas know about that? Ethan does.
And this will be where this chapter ends…..
Ambiguity of the English language.
Sooooo… scott gonna become a super villain?
I hope not. He already did that in the last incarnation of the web-comic and I for one would like to see a slightly different take on his character here.
I don’t think so either. Not unless the results of his actions either scar him or such. At worst outed he might get drawn in to work with Zeke’s creator to “stop Zeke”.
that seems like a highly likely outcome. IF scott is so scarred by it that he rejects a huge portion of his morality. ohh i hope scott gets in tight with numbnuts eugene and sends zeke in to play with him after realizing hes a tool.
Everyone is the hero of their own story ;).
Alright, poll, who thinks Scott’s just going to blow up Zeke?
Me!
Try to. Fail, but try nonetheless.
why, that’s not an ominous way to say that at all!
Kaboom?
Yes Rico. Kaboom.
Does anyone else hear a sound like a descending anvil?
Anvil, piano, coyote who was just standing on the edge of a cliff – who can tell?
I like the subtlety of the pronouns Lucas and Scott use. Their choices say a lot by saying very little.
Do you know what subtlety is?
Lo and in the horizon there comes a figure draped in black and white. Carrying his vengeance like a burning coal he will break the Gates and draw Scott to his side. For here comes…Ted
oh man… i got a bad feeling bout this… like scott is gonna be the first person that zeke actually chooses to hurt, i mean, he will be emotional. but i digress.. i got a bad feeling about this.
Now that they have Zeke, technically they don’t need Scott anymore as they can take care of the tech stuff from now on. Basically, Zeke is everything Scott is but better. Might that be what’s on Scott’s mind as well?
Hell hath no fury like a genius scorned…….
Uhhhh, why do I have bad vibes about this? Scott, please just do what Lucas asked and don’t do what I think you’re gonna do…we got enough heroes-turned-villains out in the world as it is (played Spider-Man for Playstation for the first time a few days ago and seeing Doc Octavius’s descent into Doc Ock was nothing short of heartbreaking).
I totally understand the reasoning behind the decision, but I just don’t like the they/them pronoun simply for the fact that it pulls me out of my suspension of disbelief while I try to re-process that they/them is singular in this case and refers to Zeke. My brain is still wired that they/them is plural when reading, and to use it singularly causes my mind to stutter because the sentence structure is not plural; I have to think about it to understand it, thus pulling me out of the story. I understand that it is accepted grammatically, just so uncommon… Read more »
FWIW, it’s a struggle for me too, and I can’t guarantee I someday won’t lapse and use the wrong pronoun. But it’s a valid option for someone who chooses not to be specifically gendered, and I am committed to getting used to using it in that fashion.
I personally like how the English language decided to handle it. In Germany there is a suggestion to use the pronoun “it” when you do not know the sex of a given person. Which feels weird, as if you are describing a thing, not a person. (So I could see Scott here, meaning Z-K when saying “it”).
My german is quite low level but as far as I understand the “das” which is the neutral pronoum actually has no connotation of “animal, thing or whatever”. That connotation is an english thing. On other hand in Portuguese we don’t even have a real gender neutral pronoum, so everything is either male or female even if an object based actually in sonority of the word and not just actual sex. These kinds of rules are different everywhere.
While there are exceptions (“das Kind”, “das Mädchen”), generally neutrum is understood to be “non human”, I think. Maybe not as extreme as in english, it is still an underlying thing. Calling someone “es” could potentially be extremely offensive. (As a sidenote: Actually the Stephen King book is translated literally from “It” to “Es”, and the associations still work exactly the same as in the original).
Don’t fight it…. 🙂 https://dilbert.com/strip/2021-06-01
Is this an American thing because here in Canada we were taught that They/Them can be used either singular or plural a loooong time ago
It’s not jarring to me at all, and is very normal
No, we are entirely used to “they/them” when the subject is entirely unknown.
“Can my cousin bring his friend to the party?”
“Sure. I hope they like pizza!”
But people get hung up when talking about a person they can picture in their head, and the instinct is to use “he/she” based on perceived gender. It’s not that the English language doesn’t account for it, it’s that some people have spent decades doing it one way, and have to unlearn it now that we have a greater understanding of gender identities.
It’s also biology. Generally, we’ve been wired throughout the span of human existence to recognize certain physical traits with male or female and when there is a mix, it feels a bit off (just because the long-held biological rules aren’t enitrely sufficient anymore). It’s the same sort of evolutionary leavings as the preference for young, healthy mates and the mating behaviour differences between men and women (I can’t say how that plays out in other genders as I’m ignorant of that). We are, at least those of us who recognize the justice and equity that demands we try, to step… Read more »
I completely forgot about the fact, that referencing an unknown person, english uses they/them. Maybe this will help me getting used to it.
Without prying, what generation are you part of and where did you go to school? I went to school from 7-12 in AB in the mid to late 1980s. They and Them were distinctly plural only. Of course, at the time, there were a few gay or lesbian folk around, but mostly being very surreptitious because of the lack of general acceptance, and I can’t recall any other alternatives (trans, no gender, etc). I will be happy to see trans and other folks have pronouns that aren’t clunky, but for now, as confusing as it is, They/Them will likely have… Read more »
There were just as many around.
They just didn’t let you know about it out of self defence.
They/them has never been plural only, and you were never taught that it was. Just take a look at Tim’s example. Here’s more:
“You’ve met my boss before?”
“No, I don’t think I’ve ever met them.”
“Someone was supposed to deliver a package this afternoon, have you seen them?”
“No, they haven’t come yet.”
You have been using they/them this way your entire life, and you were taught to do so. It’s not that hard.
Just because it was true 40 years ago doesn’t mean that its true now. The problem lies not with the idea of learning something new, but with folks that don’t want to try because of falsely remembered rules about the word “they.” Would your high school English teacher have objected to Tim’s sentence about about pizza up above? Of course not.
So, a sentient robot made out of a games console is fine for your suspension of disbelief but singular they pronouns aren’t?
Genuinely asking here.
Well absolutely! I’m 100% down with fantastical things, I’m an avid reader and partaker of most geekdom (I’ve read this comic for over 15 years, need I say more?). Fantastical things has no issue with suspension of disbelief, but if Tim makes a spelling mistake, my brain pulls me out of the lives of these great characters and being a part of the whole thing, and suddenly I forget about the story for a second while I overcome the speed bump that pulled me out for a second. It’s the exact same with this new pronoun usage. It’s not wrong,… Read more »
As someone who uses they/them pronouns it’s worth pointing out that singular they has been around since the 1300s, Shakespeare used it.
It fell out of disuse for known subjects but with the growing awareness that gender isn’t binary the use is growing again, and I always try and default to they/them until I know someone’s pronouns, because misgendering someone is horrible (again, speaking from experience)
All this to say that it’s ok to struggle a bit with it as you retrain your brain to use singular they, but I can almost guarantee you that you will meet people who use they/them pronouns so working to normalize it is really important
Again, this has nothing to do with normalizing anything except a change of a way of writing modern American English. The issue has not to do with gender (please don’t make anything a political/social issue here, and don’t try to bait people), its when a sentence/paragraph uses they/them in both singular and plural uses interchangeably, and you have to figure out which they is plural and which is singular in a sentence/paragraph and then read it over again once you’ve identified the subject(s) of the pronoun.
Why is everyone so negative about Scott here? I for one think he’s sincere and will keep his word (and not as sort of malicious compliance, but true to the spirit of Lucas’s request).
Maybe because he already deceived them once and the way I’ll is in bold and how what he says is worded in general? Of course his face doesn’t really give that intent and this could simply be a way to have tension until Analog and D-pad returns if this is the end of the chapter.
He didn’t really deceive them, He told Lucas about it, and I suspect that they keep TONS of things from Ethan just because its Ethan. That’s like not not telling your child that there is a package or Oreo’s on top of the fridge becuase they would either pester you to death or build a leaning tower of chairs to get up there.
I’ve ALWAYS considered him a bit of a dick despite his excellent name.
This is shaping up to be a good character-building moment. How does Zeke handle his first “betrayal”.
….People say we’re unfair to Zeke, but at least we don’t scramble for reasons bot to trust him….
Dellow Felegates…
Oh, Scott… What’s the penguin in your head telling you to do, now?
I’m thinking he’s either gonna turn off the fail safe and shut Zeke down again like they did when they caught him, or we’re gonna find out how durable the stock room is in the event of a small explosion.
I appreciate that Scott is going against probably literally all of his better judgement based off both his personal experiences and also his working knowledge of programming and computers
Ominously ambiguous.
And ambiguously ominous
“Scott care to rephrase that in a way that doesn’t sound ominous.”
“No”
This story is much more compelling than I expected it to be! I’m glad it’s more than basic superhero hijinks!
And so begins Scott’s villain arc…
Dynamite is Quite safe to build on ….in space.
And this is the danger of dogmatic thinking. You use your conclusion as a definition of reality, and you dismiss any evidence to the contrary, because you keep moving the goalposts with regards to what evidence you will accept.
I guess Scott is about to become a Lex Luthor. A friend and ally at first and then a nemesis, right after some disaster happens…
Y’all need to have a little more faith in Scott. He does trust Lucas. I think he’ll actually disarm the failsafe.. Just as soon as he finishes creating failsafe B: some sort of weapon for Ethan and Lucas to use in the event that Zeke went on a murder spree and the bomb didn’t do the job, which Scott started developing as soon as he got to take a close look at Zeke. His timetable for plan B has just been moved up, and he may not have time to run all the proper tests before it needs to be… Read more »
Almost 3 months later and still nothing new?
This aged beautifully