I tried playing it, my patients mostly died because the AI could not find the pathing from point A to point B 10 metres away and died of starvation while running in circles…
I’m sorry, but the US has the most usable and reliable healthcare in the world. Why else would sick people travel here for treatment? Compare average wait times for urgent care/oncology/radiography here to anywhere that uses a single payer system. The only reason my healthcare has become less “usable” in the last 20 years was after the ACA passed, eliminating my HMO and forcing my company to switch to a HD/HSA plan that penalizes you for going to the doctor. It’s not the most affordable because much like the cost of college, anywhere the government gets involved, prices have gone… Read more »
“Why else would sick people travel here for treatment? ” Because they’re wealthy. Now ask why 10 times more people leave the US to go to other countries for medical help. “Compare average wait times for urgent care/oncology/radiography here to anywhere that uses a single payer system” Most countries do better than us on those and often times the wait differences are negligible if higher, often by only a few days to a week. And literally everything you’ve said otherwise is complete BS and shows you either were only paying attention to your health care because attention was drawn to… Read more »
You’re fine in the US if you have a good HMO. Don’t get a chronic condition then try to change HMO (if you change jobs, you may be required to, or if you age out and have to go onto state plans which aren’t as good). Or you could be like so many uninsured or insufficiently insured people…. my cousin’s wife’s son in Missouri got very sick. He died waiting for transplants and the funds to afford them He died before he go organs and into an O.R. and he my cousin and his wife ended up nearly $100K in… Read more »
Also, that lady that worked for LA’s state gov’t, she got a chronic condition, needed regular meds, and then lost her job in state cutbacks. The new HMO called it a pre-existing condition so suddenly she was paying hundreds of dollars a month for medicine (which is another area the US has blown …. cost of epipens or rare drugs jumping massively just because patent rolls bought the patents?! Seriously?). They were having a real hard time and that can happen to anyone who changes jobs and HMOs as a result. That doesn’t happen here with our socialized medicine. And… Read more »
RICH sick people travel here for treatment while American families are stuck hoping that their GoFundMe catches enough traction in order to let their children live.
Yeah people come to the USA for treatment, those who can afford it. Do you have any idea how many family members I have who literally have to pick and choose which medication they are going to get each month? Just ONE of the meds I have to take daily to keep all my marbles and keep my screws from getting too loose costs $30 a pill WITH health insurance, and that price dropped AFTER the ACA was passed from $70 per pill. So no, the USA health care system is a joke, always has been. The ACA at least… Read more »
I’m so glad ACA made things “A Little better” for you. I on the other hand am paying twice as much for inferior care to what I had a decade ago. That bill was like prescribing a bandaid and a shot of morphine for a gunshot wound. Ya you feel better for a while but its not fixing the underling problem which is still getting worse. Instead of fixing the feedback loop between insurance, big pharma, the hospitals, and government interference jacking up the price they just threw more money and government interference at the problem.
The ACA only fixed some of the problems really. It didn’t fix the major problems like the Insurance industry and corporate heads of hospitals overcharging people.
The ACA leveraged the insurance companies to try and lower the price. The pay corridor to balance out losses from the ACA failed to work and some areas of the country all plans pulled out of providing insurance. I work for a “not for profit” insurance company. I’m glad it is not for profit because they actually went into regions everyone else pulled out of even though it was losing money In that region. They did it to make sure people had insurance. Again on the flip side insurance turns doctors into patient mills just so they can pay their… Read more »
My cousin has rheumatoid arthritis (an immune system issue). The cheaper pharmaceuticals were damaging his liver. He’s on one now costing $50 a pill and he takes one a day. He’d never have afforded that on his own. We do sometimes get Canadians with cash going down to avoid some waits for MRIs, ultrasounds, other tests or some cancer stuff. There’s still some room to improve here, but we’ve got US folks coming up and buying our pharmaceuticals because they aren’t quite so stupidly pricey. A lot of the people that hits are retirees who worked hard but the squeeze… Read more »
Prescription drugs are a different story. Name a new drug that has come out from the socialized model. The cost to manufacture does not equal the cost to research test bring a new drug to market. On the flip side it seems like pharmaceutical companies don’t want cures, they want something they can keep you on for maintenance which is sickening.
In the ’50s and 60s, the rich were taxed as much as 91%, and as a result, the economy boomed, college was subsidized, and everyone else was happy. Power doesn’t corrupt, money corrupts. Meanwhile, every other industrialized nation has some form of universal health care, and it works fine for them, except when the US deliberately sabotages them, eg Venezuela. It worked before, it’ll work again.
Don’t worship the rich, they don’t give a damn about you or your ass-kissing.
Go look up the effective tax rate of that era. It wasnt 91%. Plus America was almost the only manufacturing country in the world not impacted by ww2. It pretty much made us the producer of the world.
The only kind of person who would say this is someone who hasn’t seen how other countries healthcare systems work. As an insulin dependent diabetic in Australia, I have access to a full team of health professionals at no out of pocket expense, subsidised consumables such as needles (free) and test strips and my insulin costs $40AUD for a 6 month supply. If I was on benefits, it would cost $7. In return we pay higher taxes, sure, and the system certainly has problems, but at least here people don’t die because they don’t have money.
I mean, Canada also has an awful lot of space for an awfully small amount of people in comparison, so density dependent stuff tends to be a bit off XD
Also, differences in the makeup of the population may mean fewer MRI machines are needed in each city or more.
Serious I’m not saying universal healthcare is prefect far from it. But if I lived in the US it would cost me about 150 to 200 british pounds worth to buy a months worth of anti seizure drugs. In the NHS i dont pay as it’s life long medication but even if I was made to pay I only pay a set price a month.
If I was in the USA i would have to choose between taking my tablets or eating which is stupid. Healthcare should be a universal human right not a luxury for the wealthy
Well, I guess you never met a Libertarian, I mean Gary Johnson and objectivist cosplayers, before, more specifically “I will complain about flaws yet skimp out on actual solutions or suggesting anything besides gummint”. I mean since you are British, you are not exposed to wonders of “Reason”, and “Economic Education Foundation” (Aka made by people who sounds smart but awful libertarians) who will use arguments given by Michael Moore (I kinda like his intentions but his lackluster argument skills seem to do more bad than good and failed to account in dealing third party Libertarians) with eloquence and good… Read more »
Twilight Faze
4 years ago
Only 3? Damn, Tim, you missed your calling.
Ah, who’m I kidding? The world’s a better place with you drawing your stories and shenanigans like this.
BakaGrappler
4 years ago
Hey it’s better than socialized healthcare at least. I can pay for an operation and get it right away instead of being put on a wait list and getting my operation 18 month later if I’m not dead yet.
… … Stop listening to the propaganda sprouted by politicians with plenty of suspicious green in their pockets, and start actually look into what socialized healthcare brings to the table… AND especially compare it to the situation you have right now. There’s a reason why “the evil socialized healthcare” is considered a greate system in the UK. For example, the waiting time fallacy; wait times are short in USA because people don’t even bother to go to hospitals, and that’s because their insurance-based policies are just that complex, you can easily fall out of policy-mandated guidelines because of the complexity,… Read more »
And yet Canada had their Supreme Court rule that the Socialized healthcare system was unconstitutional because it was denying people the right to PAY for Medical Attention, and then forcing them to wait in lines for months for basic medical processes. Which meant that after the complete destruction of their open market healthcare system, Canada found itself ratifying and seeking out… what? An open market healthcare system. Socialism doesn’t work. Communism doesn’t work. Denmark isn’t Socialist, they keep asking us to stop calling them that. Norway has the strongest borders and most stringent immigration laws in the world. France is… Read more »
A Canadian court did indeed make that ruling. In 2005, the Supreme Court of Canada ruled that the Quebec prohibition of private health care was unconstitutional. The ruling was limited to Quebec, but the SCC most certainly did make that ruling.
They ruled that the ban on private healthcare was unconstitutional, which is a completely different thing from ruling that socialized healthcare is unconstitutional (which BakaGrappler claims).
Baka, obviously the people down voting haven’t really looked into it depth and most likely have not used a socialized healthcare system. There is good and bad in both systems but the progressive movement have demonized the private system so much they can’t look for themselves to see the disadvantages of the socialized systems. (Wife was a nurse where medicine was socialized but there you could pay for private hospital or other procedures that weren’t considered general health/life death. Like facial reconstruction after getting hit by a car. Sorry you have to drink food through a straw but you’re alive… Read more »
@Leduk I can’t speak to every system that is socialized, I can only speak to the one I’ve experienced or had people talk to me about. I have no knowledge of the French system. But you can’t tell me I’m wrong AF about the system where it happened. We donated money to help her get the reconstruction surgery. We knew the family through friends. Wife was a nurse Anesthetist in that country. She has her RN license in the states. We used the healthcare system there when my daughter was sick and for general use it was great. I’m just… Read more »
Isn’t that more of a problem with the government simply not paying enough attention and bucks to keep the system running smoothly?
Maybe some good old fashioned grift and bribery and other private interests of the people in charge working in healthcare. It probably also doesn’t help that we, your german neighbours and other western countries have more money to spend in healthcare, socialized or not, and drain your pool of health workers.
Socialized or private healthcare is really just a label not saying much, it depends on implementation.
Anecdotal evidence does not disprove the quality of a system, only that it isn’t perfect, as is everything.
The United States healthcare system is the most expensive in the world because it is entirely private. When you let corporations run around and do anything they want, that’s the result. Period.
Eeexcept it isn’t completely private there is plenty and then some federal involvement in the Health Care System. In a free market there wouldn’t only be one or two hospital systems hanging around. And because of that people would know just what they would be paying for that bag of salt water (saline) and that Acetaminophen (Tylenol) pill. There would be far more direct pay and far less ‘insurance’.
It’ the most expensive in the world because it is private with tons of Government involvement and requirements. Go look up the article “Bitter pill” from Time about the costs of our current system. Old Article but still relevant.
There’s no such thing as having the right to someone else’s labor. No matter how important, if you want something done, you damn well make it worth the effort/resources or get lost.
Yes I forgot that we frog march people to medical school and then hold them at gun point to perform surgery
They choose their labour, its just who pays that is different. That’s the right, that they have access to these services; not that someone else has to do them for free,
Did you read what he said? The ruling was against two-speed systems. He said “Canada had their Supreme Court rule that the Socialized healthcare system was unconstitutional”, which is NOT the ruling you mentionned. Take the time to read before acting like a smartass.
But Baka made it sound like Canada dropped his public health care system because of that ruling and as you and Dan explained, it just lifted Quebec’s ban on private healthcare. It’s such a difference between “Canada dropped socialised healthcare because it didn’t work, yay capitalism” and “you are allowed to pay more for your health care” that I understand that Ryan said, that didn’t happen.
And those who think health care is a human right, you also then have to believe Tim’s work is a human right.
Because labor is labor. Doctors and nurses wouldn’t do their job every day if they weren’t paid.
Yes our insurance system is messed up and could use improvement. But I’ll take it’s problems to the government deciding if and when I get care. Ask Native American’s how their health care is. Ask a lot of veterans. Government is bloated, slow, and inefficient. If you trust your life to it, I’ve got some tulips to sell you.
Uhm… Health care IS a human right. Especially in the U.S. – Here, an excerpt to prove my point:
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are LIFE, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
Note that Life is the first of the listed unalienable rights, and many are denied that here because of the absurd healthcare costs we have to do deal with.
Life is an unalienable right. But your right to life does not give you the right to someone else’s services. If you think the founders meant that, then you’ve read nothing from them.
Curious as to your attitude on abortion though. Since many who make that argument for healthcare, are fine with denying the right to life to the 60+ million unborn children that have been murdered.
Facts actually show that the government isn’t as bloated, slow, and inefficient as you think it is. Instead of trusting libertarians assholes (looking at you, Rand Paul) who say things because it benefits them, look into studies done by experts.
Uhm. A social system doesn’t have to enslave the entire industry and subject it to bureaucracy. For example here is one such Social-Approach utilized by my country: It just subsidizes a basic healthcare insurance policy. That is pretty much it. You don’t earn a LOT? Then state gives you 100€ per month to afford a basic insurance policy (~125€). Earn a lot? Pay it yourself! Want better? Then go ahead and upgrade to a bigger plan! No enslaving of health-care professionals, No hampering of insurance providers competing. Everyone has access to life-saving procedures, the well-off can still get better coverage… Read more »
Well that’s the problem. Those who instituted the ACA weren’t trying to fix the system. They wanted to drive up the price of private insurance to make the case that it needs to go away when their “efforts” failed, as intended. Plus make millions more dependent on the government for their health care since many could afford their policies before the ACA and then couldn’t without subsidies after. I’ve always said that government could have addressed the needs of those they claimed to want to help without doing everything they did in the ACA. But that’s not what they set… Read more »
Thank you for making the point of the US’ population when it comes to universal health care. It feels like a commonly overlooked point when people try to factor these sort of things and ignore that we have issues in a lot of areas that pertain to that. Also what doesn’t seem to get brought up is that the diverse populace and landscape of the states offers up a cornucopia of different health concerns that come into focus. Add in how people generally treat their own bodies rather poorly at times (the obesity epidemic, opioid crisis, etc.), it’s sort of… Read more »
Why is health care not a human right? How can you possibly look at someone who is ill and tell them that they only deserve help if they can afford it? You say you don’t want a government to say you have to become a government employee. You also say that denying people the right to pay for medical attention is against their human rights. I think what many people of your leanings don’t realise is that here in England we have socialised healthcare, but there are also private healthcare providers as well. So even with socialised healthcare in place… Read more »
I don’t think you understand what human rights are. Human rights are things that can’t be denied. If healthcare is a human right, you have the right to force someone at gun point to treat you, even if they don’t want to.
I realize not everyone here is from America. But in the United States, our human rights are codified. One that forces people to labor, even for the betterment of another, violates another human right. The right to be free.
You do know that Socialized health care is not slavery right? Doctors, nurses and all healthcare people they DO get paid. The only one who would shafted badly income wise are the CEO/Owners of Hospitals who can’t make a 50000% mark up on everything, like IV Bags of Saline solution that cost less than 1$ to make charged at over 500$.
Not only do the healthcare professionals get paid for their labor, they also still have the freedom to choose to leave that hospital/office or even leave that profession if they don’t want to treat you. The idea of a “human right” giving you the right to force anyone to do anything “at gunpoint” is violating the other human right of Liberty. It’s totally flawed logic.
It astounds me to see how deeply indoctrinated Americans are by corporate mantras. Try questioning what you’re convinced is true. The rest of the world does it successfully, and America is not half as special or unique as you think it is.
How nice that the costs are so low for other nations who get their medical technology from American breakthroughs. America trail blazes all the medicine you take for granted. Enjoy our second hand meds and equipment, you earned it by not inventing it yourself.
Isn’t healthcare codified as a human right in the US though? Pretty sure it’s the ‘life’ part of those unalienable rights we’re all supposed to be born with. “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed…” That sounds a lot like we should consider healthcare a right, and, that it’s the governments… Read more »
How can you possibly equate forced labor (i.e. slavery) with socialized health care? Doctors won’t be FORCED to be doctors if they don’t want to be, this is asinine.
On the other hand, Doctors will start to disappear because the profit margin of being a doctor on a government controlled salary will be dwarfed by the costs of getting the education, and you will have no say in where you practice medicine because the government controls all outlets of medical processes. You won’t have the freedom to set up private practices and you will never be able to be your own boss. And if the government is the only allowable source of healthcare, all the private medical groups will either be driven out of business by lawmakers, or confiscated… Read more »
Government won’t be the only allowed source of healthcare, government will be the only allowed health insurer.
I don’t know from which bodily orifice you pulled the thing that private practice won’t be allowed, because that’s bullshit and everything else that follows from that premise is equally idiotic.
The right to free speech, being able to saw what you want without being jailed or facing repercussions by the government (as long as it is not instigating physical harm to others)… Is a human right. The right to protect yourself from those who would do you harm… is a human right. The right to not be forced to implicate yourself in a crime, either real or fabricated… is a human right. The right to have other people pay for services on your bahalf… is a fabrication by the Democratic party that wants to literally buy people’s votes. There is… Read more »
Unfortunate as it may be, those rights you list are NOT “human” rights. They are specifically tied to the government(s) that allows them. They SHOULD be universal human rights, but that’s just not the reality at this time. (Sorry for nit-picking; I’m a mathematician.)
Specifically, they are human right given by GOD ,not a government. The US Government recognizes these inalienable rights, meaning they cannot be taken away and anyone who tries is a POS. Rights are not given by the government, they are recognizes as a part of being human and that they should not be interfered with. People are born to be free, provide for themselves, protect themselves, search for happiness, and say what they mean even if it’s crude and annoying. People are not guaranteed to be born healthy, or remain healthy for their entire lives. And people who claim otherwise… Read more »
@ste so you agree that withholding treatment for cancer even though it is only 15% effective should still be given. Or do you believe socialized medicine has the right to deny the patient that treatment? Limited resources dictates some treatments just aren’t worth pursuing for the benefit of the general population.
Sorry but some of your “facts” are just incorrect. You clearly have no clue how the industries work in these countries, just your own. Most of these countries still allow you to go private, there is just a safety net if it all goes wrong that everyone contributes to. In terms of bloated overheads and costs are a massive problem in the US. Per Capita the US spends almost double that of the UK on healthcare Link: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42950587 Honestly the US system is terrible for overheads an costs: Link: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2674671 The UK having higher mortality rates than the US is… Read more »
Was interested, but then started the Socialism and Communism tirade. I absolutely HATE that tirade, as it is a false one. Those who scream for Socialism don’t know what they are talking about. Those who scream against it…neither. Just one extreme vs another extreme. I’m from the Netherlands. Which is a bit of a Social-Democracy. Our mindset is more around fairness. As a result we have hybrid social systems. Nothing close to true “Socialism”, nor as anarchic open as the US. Healthcare follows such a hybrid approach. All residents have a minimal basic insurance plan they can select with any… Read more »
There is no system of government on EARTH that has resulted in more dead than Communism. In the face of that fact, I can only only say that Communism is something I don’t want in my nation.
Then there’s nothing to worry about, because it won’t happen. Jesus Christ, last I heard Europe is still not communist, even though socialized healthcare is RUNNING AMOK (by your standards) over there.
If anything, Europe’s beginning to lean fascist and before you start another misinformed rant, communism and fascism are NOT the same.
And the leading Democratic candidate is an open Socialist who honeymooned in the USSR, said bread lines were a good thing, and was smiling while being given tours of gulags. He won’t condemn any communist tyrants, opposes any bills beneficial to Israel and refuses to attend any political rally, dinner, or podium event having to do with Israel despite being born Jewish and claiming he’s “Proud to be Jewish.” The idea of Bernie Sanders having the power of the President scares me more than Trump or Hillery ever did. The price of freedom is vigilance, and we can’t get comfortable… Read more »
Wkz, and you need to stop listening to the socialist propaganda. Both systems have advantages and disadvantages. Over half of the medical patents come from the USA. Almost all new procedures etc. I’ve been overseas where there is socialized medicine and for day to day things it can be great, but typically they do the minimum to save your life. Face messed up and have to drink food through a straw? Well that’s okay you’re alive if you want that fixed pay out of your own pocket. Friends from Canada joke about how by the time you get an MRI… Read more »
@leduk Not all healthcare is Socialist but heatlhcare ran by the government is a social program, supported by most socialists. And yes there are social programs in the USA already, but we are not a socialist country.
“Face messed up and have to drink food through a straw? Well that’s okay you’re alive if you want that fixed pay out of your own pocket.” How the fuck is that different from private healthcare? Do they magically fix your face for free? They don’t. But they do charge you between $10K and $30k for a FUCKING CHILDBIRTH. Between $200 and $2200 for a goddamn AMBULANCE RIDE. Something that socialized healthcare does for the meagre monthly amount you pay and everything else. If you’re so ridiculously bloated with money that you can afford to pay that out of your… Read more »
How is that different? My insurance would pay for that reconstruction not just best effort to save the life. You sound passionate about it, but don’t let emotion get in the way of reality. As I said previously both systems have advantage and disadvantages. I’d prefer that if i get cancer my insurance company will pay for the treatment instead of a government telling me the success rate isn’t high enough to justify the cost to the system for a particular treatment. BASIC healthcare needs are great in socialized (OR Government run) Systems. But there are limited resources and someone… Read more »
It’s cute that you say your insurance company would be the one saying yes while the government says no, there are PLENTY of experiences where an insurance company refused to pay for a life saving procedure because it was too expensive. But let’s keep trusting corporate America to keep our personal interested at heart.
But that’s the thing: your INSURANCE pays for it. And if facial reconstruction is outside policy, you’re SCREWED. You’re SCREWED even harder than “socialist” plans. Or: a bunch of private individuals, inside a company aka a for-profit organization, gets to decide what you should and should not get. And they’re not even elected into their roles. Worst thing about this whole mess? Most Americans don’t even get to chose the policy they get… because most Americans can’t afford one directly, and instead get life insurance through their jobs. Lose their jobs? Americans don’t even get to the point where they… Read more »
@FredS. Oh I’ve voted for democrats, Libertarians, independents, And republicans. It all depends on the candidates and platforms. I don’t agree with big pharmaceutical wanting to stick you on maintenance meds instead of producing cures. There are social programs I believe are needed because a condition or case is so rare locally that local private charity will never effectively address the issue. How about you. You ever honestly look at message you seem to repeat about the government? There is good and bad in both and that Is why a candidate and not jus let party affiliation matters.
He’s looking at studies showing wait times in countries with socialized medicine are far higher than in the US. You can die in other countries waiting for months, if not over a year, for things like a CT scan. In America you wait a few days, maybe a week.
If you really care about the studies you can use google. If you are trying to one up someone in a web comic thread the other dude will never check again, you can do MUCH better.
Infinite knowledge is a google search away. Go study.
As someone from a country with socialized healthcare: that’s not how it works. Also, you can still use a private hospital and pay through the nose, if you wish — the two are not mutually exclusive systems.
In many countries that is true, and most even allow “private insurance” if you choose to purchase it. (Like Thailand for instance). But other countries don’t allow private services. Some Provinces in Canada allow private MRI’s some don’t.
That’s not a correct representation of socialist healthcare. Look at healthcare in the UK, Sweden, new Zealand, Canada etc. American politics has twisted what this reresents. Private health Care is always available, you can pay for this, people can get treated without bankruptcy.
Yes, I can afford an operation because I make enough money in my 40 hours a week job, (that I didn’t have 6 years ago), to have enough money put away to have over 5,000 in saving accounts (when I was living in poverty 6 years ago), to cover the deductible I have for my health insurance (that I didn’t have 6 years ago) should I need an operation, and I’ll have the best chance of surviving the surgery and aftercare because the medical technology and ability of doctors in America is the highest in the world. So I’ve already… Read more »
Only “over 5000 in savings”? That’s not going to cover the cost of an operation after your insurance decides to screw you over and find a loophole that lets them not pay for it and leave you with 100% of the bill. You’d better start saving up more so you can literally provide for yourself instead of figuratively, because you’re going to need to.
1) Yeah that RARELY happens. I’ve had a few procedures, it cost me what it cost me. Insurance never flinched. Have I had issues with insurance at times? Sure. But ultimately have gotten things covered. Most people “screwed over” are because they didn’t tell about something when they signed up. The rest are outliers.
2) Do you know where private insurance gets justification for denying care? Medicare and Medicaid. They follow both in whether or not to cover things. Medicare and Medicaid are not this cover all system you think it is.
Went to the hospital for a stroke. The only insurance issue came when the ambulance tried to get paid from my dental insurance.
No I am not making that up. Two cards, they tried to bill my dental. Otherwise no issues with health insurance. Though the hospital seemed to want me a few more days since I hardly ever use my insurance. But that is a different discussion.
You are wrong about #2. Apart from the fact that insurance companies often deny coverage of procedures that are written into their plans for a variety of reasons. (I recently had coverage of a large part of a procedure’s bill declined on the grounds that the doctor that supervised the floor that I stayed overnight in was out of network, regardless of whether or not she had even looked at my chart.) Which forces people to pay for Bill’s that should be covered until appeals are run through and legal costs are paid. All of that isn’t even relevant to… Read more »
I’ve had insurance try to deny part of a bill claiming the individual was out of network even though they were an employee of the facility that is in network. You just don’t pay and eventually they’ll either pay or generally the facility will write it off. If that doesn’t happen, you negotiate and settle. But there in no way has to be legal fees. Additionally, you weren’t denied care either. You got care. The issue was just in the billing. I based what I said off my mother who has been in the medical field 30+ years as a… Read more »
5,000 is what I keep on hand. In the few years I’ve had a career instead of a job to keep me afloat (coincidentally that chance happened with the government turning Republican) I’ve been able to put away 33,000 in personal investments, not counting my 401k. I own (no payments left to make) a good car and am saving a down payment for a house. And my yearly deductible on my health insurance for full coverage is 5,000. So in 90% of the potential outcomes of falling ill enough to require that amount of payout, I’m covered. For the rest,… Read more »
Yeah dude 5k won’t cover the cost of an operation. Especially not if they ever finish undoing Obamacare and the “we won’t pay for preexisting condition” loophole is revived.
What something costs is dependent on your health insurance deductibles/max out of pockets. I also support medical providers being required to post their prices so people know upfront. Something experts estimate could bring down the cost of care significantly. My mom had a bone marrow transplant. It cost her around $10K. Furthermore, just because the bill, TO YOU, is say $8K, that does not mean you have to pay $8K on the spot. When I had my appendectomy, it cost me $3100. Did I have $3100 at the time? No. Did I get put in collections or anything? No. I… Read more »
This is hilarious. “I had a payment plan for a life-saving procedure that I needed for over a year, after emptying my savings. Good thing I didn’t need anything else or I’d have been screwed. But hey, this shows US health care is a SUCCESS!” Right….
All well and good for you. You clearly do not work minimum wage in more than one job just to pay for your family’s roof and food, and hope you have enough left over to pay for your car and utilities. Must be nice, not everyone in your country has that benefit. Here in Canada, that appendectomy would be free, not a year and a half paying off $3k. And your mom’s bone marrow transplant would be free, not TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS. Really? You think that a system that means either being rich enough to pay up front, or hamstringing… Read more »
Of all the responses I got from my posts, yours is the one I need to respond to. The democratic candidates don’t want the healthcare system to be better, they want it to be controlled by the government and to be “Cheaper.” Which will cost over 30 trillion dollars, which cannot be raised in any way shape or form and still allow other processes of the government to function at all, meaning all healthcare will be rationed out. Warren even went so far as to say that Rationing will be done should she not be able to raise the needed… Read more »
Pull up a chair. Storytime. About ten years ago, after we got married, my wife and I were doing very well. I had a nice, comfortable job as an ecommerce expert in a major international corporation; my wife ran a busy retail store, with many employees under her. We made decent money; not amazing, but close to six figures. Life was pretty good. Life, then, ends up hitting you hard. My wife got sick. Needed surgery, which eventually ended with her having to leave the store. We were doing fine on my salary alone. Then she got very, VERY sick.… Read more »
Damn, bro. That was tough to read. Thank you for taking the time to write all that down and being so open about your situation. I hope you and your family will face better times in the future.
Thanks, and I hope so, too. Life goes on, you know? I don’t normally share so much, but certain topics are just too important. And in my experience, honest testimony from someone who’s been there goes a lot further to open someone’s mind than reasoned arguments.
PRIDE is to pay for society, not for yourself. Paying only for yourself is simply selfish. I’m proud that my taxes’ money is maybe needed and valuable by anyone, not just by myself. But that’s how it works. Tell the people that paying for themselves is something to be proud, except it goes against all western culture values. At the same time, the US claims to be christian. Which would mean you’d care for your society, but you only care for yourself. Short Story: My wife died 6 years ago for unknown medical reasons. Only on her day of death… Read more »
Thank you, Jejerod! The fundamental truth being discussed here is that human beings (which have those human rights), are unavoidably and permanently SOCIAL creatures! We form SOCIETIES, which inherently means we have to help CARE for one another–including each other’s HEALTH. Notice the key words: SOCIAL HEALTH CARE.
Such selfish attitudes as “I want to support myself and *only* myself” can easily be argued as…inhuman.
Wow, you sure got a lot of downvotes in a short amount of time! Hey, I’m from Australia and I want to put in a word or two. Our healthcare is socialised also, just like every civilised country except yours. And it works! No massive wait times, no medical bankruptcy. People can still splurge for fancier care (their own rooms, shop around for doctors), but public health is just that, public. Heck, doctors immigrate here internationally just to do free or next-to-free healthcare for our sick and enfeebled. All thanks to the bargaining power of a government as opposed to… Read more »
Bernie has never said he wanted our healthcare to be like Australia’s, so I can only imagine it’s working well, and allows for practices not directly controlled by the government telling you who can get care and how long it takes for them to get it.
Aside from that, I know nothing of Australia’s healthcare system.. Please enlighten me if you ever choose to.
In Australia we pay a medicare levy when we do our annual income tax return. This amounts to 2% on top of our regular income tax. There is also a medicare surcharge of 1% that is payable if the individual doesnt have private health insurance and earns over a certain annual threshold ($90K AUD). The surcharge is in place to relieve pressure on the public system by encouraging those with more disposable income to take out private health insurance. You can elect to use the public system even if you have private health insurance but may be subject to waiting… Read more »
Thank you for the education. Yeah, that sounds like a system that is allowing for both sides of the coin to be used at the same time depending on personal circumstances. And it lets the private sector have a competition against the government programs to see who is more appealing to the masses, resulting in a drive to provide the best healthcare at the lowest prices with their means. (No excess money to spend on creating vaccines and new Meds, though, only only a couple nations need to be doing that expensive shit, as we’ve seen historically to date so… Read more »
You’re welcome, additionally Australia does put a lot of government money into medical and pharmaceutical R&D. I work for CSL Behring which began as a government owned serum laboratory. Its expanded enormously and is now one of the biggest companies on our stock market (we are building a new production facility as we speak, the third one in 7 years here aswell as a new research facility last year). We export a large amount of therapeutic goods to the US aswell and even have production facilities in the states. If youre interested in the medical developments by CSL, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSL_Limited… Read more »
There’s nothing particularly political about the comic. It does not advocate for one system or another.
I understand that it can be read that way, but the comic is simply about the difference between the naivety of a kid, who assumes its as straightforward as “get sick, go to hospital, get cured”, and an adult, who realizes everything is far messier and more complex than that, and thus the bar for “success” is lower.
Fair point. In my defense, I was mostly referring to the fact that it referenced “the American Healthcare System” in an election year, when the incumbant’s position has been to dismantle a public health care system, and one of his current leading opponent’s main goals is to set up a new public health care system.
I don’t mean to say that you advocate for one or the other; only that the way the health care system is portrayed in Panel 2 will almost by default lead to these types of conversations.
Which is why I understand why people are interpreting it that way. I only clarified “U.S. Healthcare” because I have no firsthand experience with the healthcare system of any other country, and I was not interested in fielding “Well, in MY country…” emails all day.
I’m fine with the conversation taking place, I understand why it’s taking place. I’m just clarifying that it was not my intention for the comic to be a political statement.
Sorry that there’s fallout coming your way. I very intentionally made no assertion to your stances. I have my own beliefs based on empirical data, personal circumstances, and historic events… and in the late night when bad ideas seem good, I tried making a gallows humor joke about an already pretty grim subject. The rest is documented on this page.
I was honestly expecting less knee-jerk from CAD readers…
Tim hasn’t had any fallout just you, which is what happens when you spout utter nonsense and make generalised insults about a handful of other countries.
Don’t white wash it now and act like everyone just over reacted
The absolute worst place I’ve worked was Customer Service at a bank managing Health Savings Accounts. People get very, VERY scared, frustrated, and angry when their health and money are perceived to be at risk. And for good reason – it’s all things that can affect them for the rest of their lives. Most people have stories where they, or a family member, were screwed by ‘the system’. So take care when flippantly criticizing something that effects others to such a degree. We may all be gamers, but before gamers, we’re human.
Also – don’t worry about Tim here. The community hasn’t been abusive; only critical of certain views, none of which Tim personally expressed or endorsed. Besides, I have a feeling that the number of comments a page gets is usually proportional to the number of VIEWS a page gets, which would mean that ad revenue – and profits – might actually be pretty nice for this page.
Your comment above, and subsequent defense of said comment, might actually have done him a favor. *shrug*
I’m from Canada. I’ve always received any surgery I required at the time I went to the hospital. I’ve never had to make a second trip. The times I’ve gone to an ER, I was rushed in immediately ahead of the people who just showed up to get a doctor’s note. There are also walk-in clinics everywhere, which is where even people with non-emergency symptoms (like a cold) can go to get seen immediately. Imagine convincing yourself X is better than Y without knowing anything about Y. I’ve experienced both healthcare systems and can assure you that universal healthcare offers… Read more »
“Fuck everyone else who can’t pay, right? I mean, who cares that the US economy is fucked to screw over the poor already, they can just die. Not my problem!”
Im an Australian, and every single person i know has been able to get a operation when they needed it. Even myself. And we have public healthcare.
Deal with it, you’re just a fool who believes the bullshit the 1% tell you.
Bet you think earning over 30k is a 52% tax, too.
Yeah giving the poor practically everything for free is really screwing them over.
I prefer to help the poor no longer be poor. Not help them stay poor. And no mandatory minimum wages won’t make them not be poor. Every time it’s gone up by government fiat, very few actually end out better.
Not really, as rich people need poor people who buy their products/services or just work for them in their franchises. Less poor people will probably cause less rich ones.
Erm, no not even in the US system, that isn’t how it works. It’s all dependent on how busy the physician and surgeon in question are, what is being replaced (Heart, Lung, Kidneys have wait lists, regardless of how much money you have), etc. We had to wait *three months* to see a Pulmonologist for a “First Visit” despite having seen the same pulmonologist during Lung Cancer Treatment (Which, would have been impossible to receive prior to ACA by-the-by), in that time in the highly vaunted “Most Effective Healthcare system in the world” we had *four* return visits to the… Read more »
Apologies, I checked and exactly one state has caught up to Canada’s average – Hawaii, to be specific. A few rankings to consider of the US against otherwise similar nations:
Life expectancy of Australia: 83.3
Life expectancy of highest ranked US state (Hawaii): 82.5
Life expectancy of Canada: 82.3
Life expectancy of the UK: 81.2
Life expectancy of the USA: 78.9 (35th in the world, tied with Lebanon)
Life expectancy of Mexico: 75.0
Life expectancy of lowest-ranked US state (Mississippi): 74.8
Thanks for the update. Have you ever taken Car Wrecks and homicide out of the equation to see what the life expectancy is in each country? I’m just saying that life expectancy isn’t the best measure for “healthcare”. Forbes had an article on this a while back. Also the USA has the highest Cancer survival rate (Or did).
You uhh…don’t really understand how averages work do you? It doesn’t matter how much larger the population is, the formula is the same. The reason the USA has one of the lowest life expectances in the world for a first world nation (ignoring everything gun related) is actually mostly due to the ungodly high mortality rate of women two weeks post child birth. There are nations in Africa who lack electricity that have a higher survival rate for women who give birth than the USA. As for why, the major reason is due to hospitals in the US keeping women… Read more »
You’re comparing Entire Countries to a single state? The USA has the 3rd highest population behind China and India. So yeah Higher population is going to lower that rate. duh.
No, dummy, he compares the entire country, then also gives the highest and lowest state. You’d know that if you actually read his entire post before downvoting and hitting reply.
For those wondering about the Canadian Supreme Court ruling bit, I think he’s talking about Chaoulli v Quebec (AG) [2005] where the Supreme Court ruled that the Quebec Health Insurance Act and the Hospital Insurance Act prohibiting private medical insurance in the face of long wait times violated the Quebec Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms. Basically, Quebec wanted to be socialized healthcare only and two guys (Dr. Chaoulli and his 73 year old patient waiting on hip replacement) were able to get the Canadian Supreme Court to see it as violating the Quebec Charter and almost the Canadian Charter… Read more »
For some sake of my attempt to understand this problem clearly: The 2005 SCC decision: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC558367/ A 2018 professional discussion Canadian healthcare: https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/podcast/2018/oct/truth-about-waiting-see-doctor-canada I’m not a Canadian or a doctor, my only qualification is that I might someday again need healthcare. It seems unlikely that, if you’re making an argument with absolute certainty that a simple solution exists(pure open market or total socializion), you’re capturing enough detail to be correct. Regardless of your stance–Health care certainly seems like a thing everyone should have. The debate *shouldn’t* be about if which side believes that. It’s a matter of how best to… Read more »
A friend just had a “mild” heart attack, went to hospital for a check up, was admitted, surgery and about 5 days later was released. Back home 2 days ago.
Socialized healthcare for the win
And even if there is a wait list, private can also run into that problem.
But a system based on private insurance favours the wealthy.
You did happen to notice the bit where James Kite’s friend didn’t have to pay a single dollar for his visit right? How much did your grandfather’s medical bill cost?
So cute you think it’s free. My grandfather paid his bills, rather than expecting the government to tax the citizens to pay for it. Someone is paying for that bill if you believe it’s free you’re clearly uneducated. My wife and her family left socialist country with “Free” healthcare. Guess what they like it here and prefer it to the hell they lived in before.
Looks like Radiohead’s OK Computer album cover. One of the top 5 albums of the decade for most 90s kids. A very appropriate shirt choice for a computer geek at that time anywhere in North America. Mine was of a NIN album cover.
Trevor
4 years ago
Oh yeah, so true. I have three stars on every single level in this game, and a grand total of zero “No Deaths” trophies (awarded every in-game year). It’s literally impossible. Patients are complete morons who’d rather have a drink than go to surgery when they have 30 seconds to live. And even if they get there on time, some illnesses have so high a difficulty that even the best doctors and equipment can’t guarantee success. Thankfully deaths are pretty much irrelevant in this game. They’re only a minor reputation hit, which is more than recovered by curing another patient,… Read more »
EMMachine
4 years ago
I quite like both games, even though Theme Hospital was much harder (because with the amount of deaths you have sometimes or with partly -50.000 Balance in worst case you would have lost in Theme Hospital already).
Bill P.
4 years ago
This is absurd. Where are the piles of bodies?
If it weren’t so absurd I’d wish for you people who think this way to see how “wonderful” things will be when you have to apply to some bureaucrat for your health care.
Don’t even bother, the children have been told all these years that the govenrment will give them free stuff for nothing. They believe it without even thinking. They believe countries with free healthcare would work here in the USA when it won’t. But again they have been raised to believe in the magical free stuff fairy.
Oh, socialised (not necessarily free, like with medication, but believe what you want) WOULD work in the U.S, but it would require root and branch rebuilding of your health care system, de-programming of people who fanatically believe in “free market rules everything!”, and somehow going around the lobbyists who work on behalf of the “big pharma” giants in the U.S. So there are certainly obstacles, but none of them have to do with it simply not being possible in the U.S. It’s due to culture and corporate interference, little else.
For example? I sure as hell don’t have to do that, speaking as someone in Australia. I go see my GP, she points me toward a specialist if needed, and I go talk to them. If I have to go to a hospital, she’ll either get an ambulance to me or tell me to make my way there with her letter saying “treat this poor twit!”, which happened to me once.
Ryan Mahood
4 years ago
That year without a death award is just about impossible!
Hunter
4 years ago
Two point hospital is great. Though it was frustrating at times. The AI pathing was an issue.
ANTI_Antifa
4 years ago
After half a century, the government has still not honoured its commitment, and its performance declines with each passing year, despite increased spending. Furthermore, the government made it illegal for citizens to pay private parties for the health care which the government fails to provide. Waiting, Waiting, Waiting for a Doctor According to a Fraser Institute survey, for medically necessary treatment, the median waiting time for patients in Canada from referral by a general practitioner to consultation with a specialist, and then to the date of actual treatment, was 21.2 weeks in 2017. This year’s [2017] wait time — the… Read more »
You act like people in this county can instantly get the procedures instantly in this county. My dad has very good insurance and he still had to wait over three months to get his knee surgery approved after a skiing accident that was on top of the month and a half he had to wait because he had to wait to see the approved orthopedic surgeon on his insurance because they where so backed up. So all told he had to wait just over 18 weeks for a medically necessary procedure but because of insurance he had to wait. That… Read more »
Matt, I’m pretty sure this guy is a bot. Look at the formatting of his comment not to mention the sheer length of it. I might be wrong, but this looks like a bunch of copy and pasted commentary instead of a person saying something.
Not necessarily a bot, but copy/pasted for sure. This is from Mises Institute, a website that mediabiasfactcheck.com rates as “Right Bias” and “Factual Reporting: Mixed.” It favors the Libertarian Right, not necessarily the Republican Right. Ron Paul is one of the board members. It does not reveal its donors or shareholders.
Not necessarily a bot, but copy/pasted for sure. This is from Mises Institute, a website that mediabiasfactcheck.com rates as “Right Bias” and “Factual Reporting: Mixed.” It favors the Libertarian Right, not necessarily the Republican Right. Ron Paul is one of the board members. It does not reveal its donors or shareholders. It’s important to note that Mises is based in Auburn, Alabama, not Canada. So while I don’t know anything in particular about the claims they make, it’s important to note that they’re making those claims as an outside observer, not from a position of experience; and furthermore, from a… Read more »
Launchpad
4 years ago
90’s kid reminds of old comic Ethan. OH how I miss those days for me. First discovering CAD and then going back and reading through the archives. Plus I was a lot younger and had hair.
Apparently many Insurances Companies in the US refuse to cover the expenses for the Coronavirus-test so if you want to take such a test it cost you 1400$. Like damn! No wonder the USA only tested 500 people so far, those were the ones who could afford that. xD
I was wrong about the 1400$, that’s what you pay when Insurance take up part of the real cost. With no Insurance it costs 3270$. And given there are couple ten millions with no Insurance in the USA, that gonna be tough for them to cough up when it matters.
I’m from country with socialized healthcare. People absolutely die in wait lines. Amputations are becoming preferred treatment options in some cases. Only 38% of people are using socialized healthcare exclusively. And it’s so bad that even private healthcare quality is dropping, due to public healthcare setting the bar so frikking low.
I’m kidding, I’m kidding
But actually though, that doesn’t sound plausible. I can’t think of any major country that’s had serious issues with socialized healthcare in that particular regard, at least none where it wouldn’t also be a problem for private health care (like, say, organ transplant issues).
Bullshit. I’m from Canada and the wait times are completely manageable and the level or care is great. I’m a Type I diabetic who is thankful every day that I wasn’t born in the U.S.
Timothy
4 years ago
Is this a game series? I’ve never heard of this
The rAt
4 years ago
Ouch, too real.
Aivy
4 years ago
That’s very sad.
Mike
4 years ago
6 years later that kid created an online comic strip…
If you like sim/management games, they’re a blast.
Thrumblebore
4 years ago
Hah, funny to see this perspective as these games are made in Britain, so it’s a little more NHS inspired.
Of course the easiest way to avoid deaths in Theme Hospital was to discharge patients who are about to croak, they walk out and die but that’s no longer your problem and thus doesn’t count – also kind of prescient in light of “patient dumping” which happens in the USA (although that’s more to do with freeing up beds in the middle of the night for better paying customer-I mean patients).
Michael
4 years ago
Americans bashing their healthcare calling for socialized healthcare? Check.
Having so called “reliable and usable” socialized healthcare of western europe and still having to wait for operation 1 year only for it to be botched then waiting another 3 months for another appointment and hearing “You can cut out the foreign body left by the doctor yourself…” while still having to deduct 18% extra healthcare tax from income…
…check.
Andrew Wilkin
4 years ago
* Puts fingers in my ears and screams *
LA LA LA LA LA No more politics, people, please! LA LA LA LA LA If I want that I’ll go to CNN! LA LA LA LA LA
I think we all knew it was coming, one way or another.
Vedrit
4 years ago
As an American living in Canada, let me just say that in terms of waiting, Canada is way worse than the US. You can see a doctor within a couple hours for non-emergency stuff in the US. Canada? You have to make an appointment 6 months in advance, and then when you show up at the appointed time, then you have to wait another hour.
Bro'samdi
4 years ago
The World: America, you REALLY need to fi your health care system.
America: That sounds like COMMUNISM.
Well, I guess you never seen Libertarians before.
I mean they will say Healthcare System need to be fixed…assuming if you bother to ask them “how”.
I mean I’ve made a mistake of talking one who seems to be not out of touch before they began spouting “blame it on government intervention, trying using my methods that mostly involve more privatization and screwing over poor people”.
That statement felt stale and trite now since there are actual assholes, especially libertarians I mentioned, who seems to exploit that notion to promote their half baked idea.
kwerboom
4 years ago
The American “healthcare” system is great at lowering one’s standards of what “healthcare” actually is. Our Great Nation’s (/s) half baked, overpriced, under performing, hodgepodge, broken, mutant “healthcare” system is a running joke compared to the rest of the developed world.What’s depressing is how many are fighting to keep this crapsack system because of fears of ‘socialism’ and ‘owning the libs’. Healthcare should be a right not a privilege, a basic benefit of living in a civilized nation (assuming America still counts as “civilized” with all the gun violence). Of course, this could all change for the worse as the… Read more »
Assuming if you bother to ask “how” instead of “we should”, besides the politicians, you can try talking if they are that reluctant and your perception made it seem like one, especially the ones I mentioned below. Keep in mind that public are just like politicians too. Remember when people (including Bernie Sanders and my goddamn hippie teacher who see the insurance fine—the one targeted by Supreme Court—as targeting at poor people) bitch ACA being half baked (not to mention not voting against Trump, who is responsible for said current Supreme Court makeup, due to said issue with Hilary even… Read more »
Cyrad
4 years ago
One of the most terrifying and horrible experiences in my life involved getting stuck in the waiting room for 2-3 hours while every breath I struggled to make felt like getting stabbed with a piping hot iron.
t209
4 years ago
Now part of me imagined that Theme Hospital wanted to raise children and/or adult gamers into reformers of healthcare system by trying to appeal to their (presumably) compassion. Though considering how much of them turned to Libertarianism (no offense but they seem kinda “off” on such subject for “reform minded”*, not to mention spreading internationally since Boris’s conservatives seems to be neutering National Healthcare for “cost saving measures”)…I think they failed. * By reform minded, I mean admitting that health system has flaws…and keep insisting that government/doctor/anyone not private business is the problem and suggesting more privatization. Just read any… Read more »
The Anon
4 years ago
See now that’s the wrong attitude for Theme Hospital, the correct attitude is “I need more doctors more medicines more machines! These people are coming to me for help and I want to get my ‘no deaths’ bonus this year!”
Ashwyze
3 years ago
This is so prophetic after a year in the pandemic
Awesome
2 years ago
…. That’s the Canadian healthcare system. We actually get treated quickly in the US.
24
Any time you can strut. It’s a good day!
Seems legit.
I tried playing it, my patients mostly died because the AI could not find the pathing from point A to point B 10 metres away and died of starvation while running in circles…
Just as real humans, amazing!
First
last care!.
Now that’s some simulation game. You’ve even got the “millionaire strut” down as hospital CEO.
Is there a “Yacht Racing” or “Polo at the Country Club” minigame between days?
Is there any blindingly in obvious points that you think but don’t say?
Yet the Americans refuse to demand changes as the Big Pharma make out that universal healthcare is dangerous and evil.
That’s Commie Talk, ARE YOU A RED?! A RUSKIE?!
Why do you want people to have usable and reliable healthcare?! TO UNDERMINE DEMOCRACY?!
It’s grim as hell, but at least this made me laugh XD
I’m sorry, but the US has the most usable and reliable healthcare in the world. Why else would sick people travel here for treatment? Compare average wait times for urgent care/oncology/radiography here to anywhere that uses a single payer system. The only reason my healthcare has become less “usable” in the last 20 years was after the ACA passed, eliminating my HMO and forcing my company to switch to a HD/HSA plan that penalizes you for going to the doctor. It’s not the most affordable because much like the cost of college, anywhere the government gets involved, prices have gone… Read more »
“Why else would sick people travel here for treatment? ” Because they’re wealthy. Now ask why 10 times more people leave the US to go to other countries for medical help. “Compare average wait times for urgent care/oncology/radiography here to anywhere that uses a single payer system” Most countries do better than us on those and often times the wait differences are negligible if higher, often by only a few days to a week. And literally everything you’ve said otherwise is complete BS and shows you either were only paying attention to your health care because attention was drawn to… Read more »
You’re fine in the US if you have a good HMO. Don’t get a chronic condition then try to change HMO (if you change jobs, you may be required to, or if you age out and have to go onto state plans which aren’t as good). Or you could be like so many uninsured or insufficiently insured people…. my cousin’s wife’s son in Missouri got very sick. He died waiting for transplants and the funds to afford them He died before he go organs and into an O.R. and he my cousin and his wife ended up nearly $100K in… Read more »
Also, that lady that worked for LA’s state gov’t, she got a chronic condition, needed regular meds, and then lost her job in state cutbacks. The new HMO called it a pre-existing condition so suddenly she was paying hundreds of dollars a month for medicine (which is another area the US has blown …. cost of epipens or rare drugs jumping massively just because patent rolls bought the patents?! Seriously?). They were having a real hard time and that can happen to anyone who changes jobs and HMOs as a result. That doesn’t happen here with our socialized medicine. And… Read more »
RICH sick people travel here for treatment while American families are stuck hoping that their GoFundMe catches enough traction in order to let their children live.
While the rest of the developed world looks on, wondering why children die from easily treatable conditions.
Murica.
Yeah people come to the USA for treatment, those who can afford it. Do you have any idea how many family members I have who literally have to pick and choose which medication they are going to get each month? Just ONE of the meds I have to take daily to keep all my marbles and keep my screws from getting too loose costs $30 a pill WITH health insurance, and that price dropped AFTER the ACA was passed from $70 per pill. So no, the USA health care system is a joke, always has been. The ACA at least… Read more »
I’m so glad ACA made things “A Little better” for you. I on the other hand am paying twice as much for inferior care to what I had a decade ago. That bill was like prescribing a bandaid and a shot of morphine for a gunshot wound. Ya you feel better for a while but its not fixing the underling problem which is still getting worse. Instead of fixing the feedback loop between insurance, big pharma, the hospitals, and government interference jacking up the price they just threw more money and government interference at the problem.
The ACA only fixed some of the problems really. It didn’t fix the major problems like the Insurance industry and corporate heads of hospitals overcharging people.
The ACA leveraged the insurance companies to try and lower the price. The pay corridor to balance out losses from the ACA failed to work and some areas of the country all plans pulled out of providing insurance. I work for a “not for profit” insurance company. I’m glad it is not for profit because they actually went into regions everyone else pulled out of even though it was losing money In that region. They did it to make sure people had insurance. Again on the flip side insurance turns doctors into patient mills just so they can pay their… Read more »
My cousin has rheumatoid arthritis (an immune system issue). The cheaper pharmaceuticals were damaging his liver. He’s on one now costing $50 a pill and he takes one a day. He’d never have afforded that on his own. We do sometimes get Canadians with cash going down to avoid some waits for MRIs, ultrasounds, other tests or some cancer stuff. There’s still some room to improve here, but we’ve got US folks coming up and buying our pharmaceuticals because they aren’t quite so stupidly pricey. A lot of the people that hits are retirees who worked hard but the squeeze… Read more »
Prescription drugs are a different story. Name a new drug that has come out from the socialized model. The cost to manufacture does not equal the cost to research test bring a new drug to market. On the flip side it seems like pharmaceutical companies don’t want cures, they want something they can keep you on for maintenance which is sickening.
In the ’50s and 60s, the rich were taxed as much as 91%, and as a result, the economy boomed, college was subsidized, and everyone else was happy. Power doesn’t corrupt, money corrupts. Meanwhile, every other industrialized nation has some form of universal health care, and it works fine for them, except when the US deliberately sabotages them, eg Venezuela. It worked before, it’ll work again.
Don’t worship the rich, they don’t give a damn about you or your ass-kissing.
Go look up the effective tax rate of that era. It wasnt 91%. Plus America was almost the only manufacturing country in the world not impacted by ww2. It pretty much made us the producer of the world.
The only kind of person who would say this is someone who hasn’t seen how other countries healthcare systems work. As an insulin dependent diabetic in Australia, I have access to a full team of health professionals at no out of pocket expense, subsidised consumables such as needles (free) and test strips and my insulin costs $40AUD for a 6 month supply. If I was on benefits, it would cost $7. In return we pay higher taxes, sure, and the system certainly has problems, but at least here people don’t die because they don’t have money.
Hi. Canada here. You are incorrect. Have a nice day.
Hi Canada. Why do you have so few MRI machines?
https://www.statista.com/statistics/282401/density-of-magnetic-resonance-imaging-units-by-country/
I mean, Canada also has an awful lot of space for an awfully small amount of people in comparison, so density dependent stuff tends to be a bit off XD
Also, differences in the makeup of the population may mean fewer MRI machines are needed in each city or more.
Serious I’m not saying universal healthcare is prefect far from it. But if I lived in the US it would cost me about 150 to 200 british pounds worth to buy a months worth of anti seizure drugs. In the NHS i dont pay as it’s life long medication but even if I was made to pay I only pay a set price a month.
If I was in the USA i would have to choose between taking my tablets or eating which is stupid. Healthcare should be a universal human right not a luxury for the wealthy
Well, I guess you never met a Libertarian, I mean Gary Johnson and objectivist cosplayers, before, more specifically “I will complain about flaws yet skimp out on actual solutions or suggesting anything besides gummint”. I mean since you are British, you are not exposed to wonders of “Reason”, and “Economic Education Foundation” (Aka made by people who sounds smart but awful libertarians) who will use arguments given by Michael Moore (I kinda like his intentions but his lackluster argument skills seem to do more bad than good and failed to account in dealing third party Libertarians) with eloquence and good… Read more »
Only 3? Damn, Tim, you missed your calling.
Ah, who’m I kidding? The world’s a better place with you drawing your stories and shenanigans like this.
Hey it’s better than socialized healthcare at least. I can pay for an operation and get it right away instead of being put on a wait list and getting my operation 18 month later if I’m not dead yet.
… … Stop listening to the propaganda sprouted by politicians with plenty of suspicious green in their pockets, and start actually look into what socialized healthcare brings to the table… AND especially compare it to the situation you have right now. There’s a reason why “the evil socialized healthcare” is considered a greate system in the UK. For example, the waiting time fallacy; wait times are short in USA because people don’t even bother to go to hospitals, and that’s because their insurance-based policies are just that complex, you can easily fall out of policy-mandated guidelines because of the complexity,… Read more »
And yet Canada had their Supreme Court rule that the Socialized healthcare system was unconstitutional because it was denying people the right to PAY for Medical Attention, and then forcing them to wait in lines for months for basic medical processes. Which meant that after the complete destruction of their open market healthcare system, Canada found itself ratifying and seeking out… what? An open market healthcare system. Socialism doesn’t work. Communism doesn’t work. Denmark isn’t Socialist, they keep asking us to stop calling them that. Norway has the strongest borders and most stringent immigration laws in the world. France is… Read more »
That’s not true. They Canadian courts never made that ruling.
A Canadian court did indeed make that ruling. In 2005, the Supreme Court of Canada ruled that the Quebec prohibition of private health care was unconstitutional. The ruling was limited to Quebec, but the SCC most certainly did make that ruling.
So it wasn’t true but it was misleading as Socialized healthcare system was never deemed unconstitutional. The ban on private healthcare was
Yes, they did. Chaoulli v Quebec https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaoulli_v_Quebec_(AG)
Yes they did
They ruled that the ban on private healthcare was unconstitutional, which is a completely different thing from ruling that socialized healthcare is unconstitutional (which BakaGrappler claims).
Baka, obviously the people down voting haven’t really looked into it depth and most likely have not used a socialized healthcare system. There is good and bad in both systems but the progressive movement have demonized the private system so much they can’t look for themselves to see the disadvantages of the socialized systems. (Wife was a nurse where medicine was socialized but there you could pay for private hospital or other procedures that weren’t considered general health/life death. Like facial reconstruction after getting hit by a car. Sorry you have to drink food through a straw but you’re alive… Read more »
as a french I use a socialized system and I can tell you that you’re wrong AF.
@Leduk I can’t speak to every system that is socialized, I can only speak to the one I’ve experienced or had people talk to me about. I have no knowledge of the French system. But you can’t tell me I’m wrong AF about the system where it happened. We donated money to help her get the reconstruction surgery. We knew the family through friends. Wife was a nurse Anesthetist in that country. She has her RN license in the states. We used the healthcare system there when my daughter was sick and for general use it was great. I’m just… Read more »
You’re wrong AF in and so far that you explicitly implies that its the standard among socialized systems
@leduk As a Pole I use a socialized system and it sucks AF. We have to use private healthcare to get any shit done quickly without months of waiting…
Isn’t that more of a problem with the government simply not paying enough attention and bucks to keep the system running smoothly?
Maybe some good old fashioned grift and bribery and other private interests of the people in charge working in healthcare. It probably also doesn’t help that we, your german neighbours and other western countries have more money to spend in healthcare, socialized or not, and drain your pool of health workers.
Socialized or private healthcare is really just a label not saying much, it depends on implementation.
Lol. I love seeing a completely rational comment downvoted.
“IT DOESN’T SUPPORT GIVING ME FREE STUFF! DOWN VOTE!
There is nothing rational about assuming people’s opinions are uninformed with no evidence of any such thing…
Anecdotal evidence does not disprove the quality of a system, only that it isn’t perfect, as is everything.
The United States healthcare system is the most expensive in the world because it is entirely private. When you let corporations run around and do anything they want, that’s the result. Period.
Eeexcept it isn’t completely private there is plenty and then some federal involvement in the Health Care System. In a free market there wouldn’t only be one or two hospital systems hanging around. And because of that people would know just what they would be paying for that bag of salt water (saline) and that Acetaminophen (Tylenol) pill. There would be far more direct pay and far less ‘insurance’.
It’ the most expensive in the world because it is private with tons of Government involvement and requirements. Go look up the article “Bitter pill” from Time about the costs of our current system. Old Article but still relevant.
I downvoted him because he is an idiot and private healthcare is a luxury for the wealthy, socialised healthcare is a safety net for the rest.,
You are absolutely correct. Free health care is not the way to go. Ask Charlie Gard’s family.
Gotta love the downvotes. Feed on it.
Healthcare is not a human right huh? Gotta put that one on a t-shirt.
There’s no such thing as having the right to someone else’s labor. No matter how important, if you want something done, you damn well make it worth the effort/resources or get lost.
Yes I forgot that we frog march people to medical school and then hold them at gun point to perform surgery
They choose their labour, its just who pays that is different. That’s the right, that they have access to these services; not that someone else has to do them for free,
it’s not difficult to understand.
Bake, I’m in Canada… our Supreme Court made no such ruling.
Yes they did. Refer to my reply above to Terry.
Did you read what he said? The ruling was against two-speed systems. He said “Canada had their Supreme Court rule that the Socialized healthcare system was unconstitutional”, which is NOT the ruling you mentionned. Take the time to read before acting like a smartass.
But Baka made it sound like Canada dropped his public health care system because of that ruling and as you and Dan explained, it just lifted Quebec’s ban on private healthcare. It’s such a difference between “Canada dropped socialised healthcare because it didn’t work, yay capitalism” and “you are allowed to pay more for your health care” that I understand that Ryan said, that didn’t happen.
They didn’t. At least read the links you post.
And those who think health care is a human right, you also then have to believe Tim’s work is a human right.
Because labor is labor. Doctors and nurses wouldn’t do their job every day if they weren’t paid.
Yes our insurance system is messed up and could use improvement. But I’ll take it’s problems to the government deciding if and when I get care. Ask Native American’s how their health care is. Ask a lot of veterans. Government is bloated, slow, and inefficient. If you trust your life to it, I’ve got some tulips to sell you.
yeah for sure not diying and reading a webcomic is the same thing…
Uhm… Health care IS a human right. Especially in the U.S. – Here, an excerpt to prove my point:
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are LIFE, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
Note that Life is the first of the listed unalienable rights, and many are denied that here because of the absurd healthcare costs we have to do deal with.
Life is an unalienable right. But your right to life does not give you the right to someone else’s services. If you think the founders meant that, then you’ve read nothing from them.
Curious as to your attitude on abortion though. Since many who make that argument for healthcare, are fine with denying the right to life to the 60+ million unborn children that have been murdered.
Facts actually show that the government isn’t as bloated, slow, and inefficient as you think it is. Instead of trusting libertarians assholes (looking at you, Rand Paul) who say things because it benefits them, look into studies done by experts.
Dude I’ve worked with the government for 15 years. Yes it is.
I always like to see who is buttering the experts bread before putting too much credence in a “finding”
Uhm. A social system doesn’t have to enslave the entire industry and subject it to bureaucracy. For example here is one such Social-Approach utilized by my country: It just subsidizes a basic healthcare insurance policy. That is pretty much it. You don’t earn a LOT? Then state gives you 100€ per month to afford a basic insurance policy (~125€). Earn a lot? Pay it yourself! Want better? Then go ahead and upgrade to a bigger plan! No enslaving of health-care professionals, No hampering of insurance providers competing. Everyone has access to life-saving procedures, the well-off can still get better coverage… Read more »
Well that’s the problem. Those who instituted the ACA weren’t trying to fix the system. They wanted to drive up the price of private insurance to make the case that it needs to go away when their “efforts” failed, as intended. Plus make millions more dependent on the government for their health care since many could afford their policies before the ACA and then couldn’t without subsidies after. I’ve always said that government could have addressed the needs of those they claimed to want to help without doing everything they did in the ACA. But that’s not what they set… Read more »
Thank you for making the point of the US’ population when it comes to universal health care. It feels like a commonly overlooked point when people try to factor these sort of things and ignore that we have issues in a lot of areas that pertain to that. Also what doesn’t seem to get brought up is that the diverse populace and landscape of the states offers up a cornucopia of different health concerns that come into focus. Add in how people generally treat their own bodies rather poorly at times (the obesity epidemic, opioid crisis, etc.), it’s sort of… Read more »
Why is health care not a human right? How can you possibly look at someone who is ill and tell them that they only deserve help if they can afford it? You say you don’t want a government to say you have to become a government employee. You also say that denying people the right to pay for medical attention is against their human rights. I think what many people of your leanings don’t realise is that here in England we have socialised healthcare, but there are also private healthcare providers as well. So even with socialised healthcare in place… Read more »
I don’t think you understand what human rights are. Human rights are things that can’t be denied. If healthcare is a human right, you have the right to force someone at gun point to treat you, even if they don’t want to.
I realize not everyone here is from America. But in the United States, our human rights are codified. One that forces people to labor, even for the betterment of another, violates another human right. The right to be free.
You do know that Socialized health care is not slavery right? Doctors, nurses and all healthcare people they DO get paid. The only one who would shafted badly income wise are the CEO/Owners of Hospitals who can’t make a 50000% mark up on everything, like IV Bags of Saline solution that cost less than 1$ to make charged at over 500$.
Not only do the healthcare professionals get paid for their labor, they also still have the freedom to choose to leave that hospital/office or even leave that profession if they don’t want to treat you. The idea of a “human right” giving you the right to force anyone to do anything “at gunpoint” is violating the other human right of Liberty. It’s totally flawed logic.
It astounds me to see how deeply indoctrinated Americans are by corporate mantras. Try questioning what you’re convinced is true. The rest of the world does it successfully, and America is not half as special or unique as you think it is.
How nice that the costs are so low for other nations who get their medical technology from American breakthroughs. America trail blazes all the medicine you take for granted. Enjoy our second hand meds and equipment, you earned it by not inventing it yourself.
Isn’t healthcare codified as a human right in the US though? Pretty sure it’s the ‘life’ part of those unalienable rights we’re all supposed to be born with. “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed…” That sounds a lot like we should consider healthcare a right, and, that it’s the governments… Read more »
How can you possibly equate forced labor (i.e. slavery) with socialized health care? Doctors won’t be FORCED to be doctors if they don’t want to be, this is asinine.
On the other hand, Doctors will start to disappear because the profit margin of being a doctor on a government controlled salary will be dwarfed by the costs of getting the education, and you will have no say in where you practice medicine because the government controls all outlets of medical processes. You won’t have the freedom to set up private practices and you will never be able to be your own boss. And if the government is the only allowable source of healthcare, all the private medical groups will either be driven out of business by lawmakers, or confiscated… Read more »
Government won’t be the only allowed source of healthcare, government will be the only allowed health insurer.
I don’t know from which bodily orifice you pulled the thing that private practice won’t be allowed, because that’s bullshit and everything else that follows from that premise is equally idiotic.
The right to free speech, being able to saw what you want without being jailed or facing repercussions by the government (as long as it is not instigating physical harm to others)… Is a human right. The right to protect yourself from those who would do you harm… is a human right. The right to not be forced to implicate yourself in a crime, either real or fabricated… is a human right. The right to have other people pay for services on your bahalf… is a fabrication by the Democratic party that wants to literally buy people’s votes. There is… Read more »
Unfortunate as it may be, those rights you list are NOT “human” rights. They are specifically tied to the government(s) that allows them. They SHOULD be universal human rights, but that’s just not the reality at this time. (Sorry for nit-picking; I’m a mathematician.)
Specifically, they are human right given by GOD ,not a government. The US Government recognizes these inalienable rights, meaning they cannot be taken away and anyone who tries is a POS. Rights are not given by the government, they are recognizes as a part of being human and that they should not be interfered with. People are born to be free, provide for themselves, protect themselves, search for happiness, and say what they mean even if it’s crude and annoying. People are not guaranteed to be born healthy, or remain healthy for their entire lives. And people who claim otherwise… Read more »
@ste so you agree that withholding treatment for cancer even though it is only 15% effective should still be given. Or do you believe socialized medicine has the right to deny the patient that treatment? Limited resources dictates some treatments just aren’t worth pursuing for the benefit of the general population.
Sorry but some of your “facts” are just incorrect. You clearly have no clue how the industries work in these countries, just your own. Most of these countries still allow you to go private, there is just a safety net if it all goes wrong that everyone contributes to. In terms of bloated overheads and costs are a massive problem in the US. Per Capita the US spends almost double that of the UK on healthcare Link: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42950587 Honestly the US system is terrible for overheads an costs: Link: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2674671 The UK having higher mortality rates than the US is… Read more »
…You do realise that we pay LESS per person on the GOVERNMENT level than the U.S. does, right? And we don’t need health insurance for most things!
Wait times aren’t as bad as some people say; mental health is the only real question mark (though again, better than the US).
Was interested, but then started the Socialism and Communism tirade. I absolutely HATE that tirade, as it is a false one. Those who scream for Socialism don’t know what they are talking about. Those who scream against it…neither. Just one extreme vs another extreme. I’m from the Netherlands. Which is a bit of a Social-Democracy. Our mindset is more around fairness. As a result we have hybrid social systems. Nothing close to true “Socialism”, nor as anarchic open as the US. Healthcare follows such a hybrid approach. All residents have a minimal basic insurance plan they can select with any… Read more »
There is no system of government on EARTH that has resulted in more dead than Communism. In the face of that fact, I can only only say that Communism is something I don’t want in my nation.
Then there’s nothing to worry about, because it won’t happen. Jesus Christ, last I heard Europe is still not communist, even though socialized healthcare is RUNNING AMOK (by your standards) over there.
If anything, Europe’s beginning to lean fascist and before you start another misinformed rant, communism and fascism are NOT the same.
And the leading Democratic candidate is an open Socialist who honeymooned in the USSR, said bread lines were a good thing, and was smiling while being given tours of gulags. He won’t condemn any communist tyrants, opposes any bills beneficial to Israel and refuses to attend any political rally, dinner, or podium event having to do with Israel despite being born Jewish and claiming he’s “Proud to be Jewish.” The idea of Bernie Sanders having the power of the President scares me more than Trump or Hillery ever did. The price of freedom is vigilance, and we can’t get comfortable… Read more »
Wkz, and you need to stop listening to the socialist propaganda. Both systems have advantages and disadvantages. Over half of the medical patents come from the USA. Almost all new procedures etc. I’ve been overseas where there is socialized medicine and for day to day things it can be great, but typically they do the minimum to save your life. Face messed up and have to drink food through a straw? Well that’s okay you’re alive if you want that fixed pay out of your own pocket. Friends from Canada joke about how by the time you get an MRI… Read more »
I think you dont know shit about socialism if you think that healthcare is socialist. Seriously. for you even keynes is a socialist, right?
@leduk Not all healthcare is Socialist but heatlhcare ran by the government is a social program, supported by most socialists. And yes there are social programs in the USA already, but we are not a socialist country.
“Face messed up and have to drink food through a straw? Well that’s okay you’re alive if you want that fixed pay out of your own pocket.” How the fuck is that different from private healthcare? Do they magically fix your face for free? They don’t. But they do charge you between $10K and $30k for a FUCKING CHILDBIRTH. Between $200 and $2200 for a goddamn AMBULANCE RIDE. Something that socialized healthcare does for the meagre monthly amount you pay and everything else. If you’re so ridiculously bloated with money that you can afford to pay that out of your… Read more »
How is that different? My insurance would pay for that reconstruction not just best effort to save the life. You sound passionate about it, but don’t let emotion get in the way of reality. As I said previously both systems have advantage and disadvantages. I’d prefer that if i get cancer my insurance company will pay for the treatment instead of a government telling me the success rate isn’t high enough to justify the cost to the system for a particular treatment. BASIC healthcare needs are great in socialized (OR Government run) Systems. But there are limited resources and someone… Read more »
It’s cute that you say your insurance company would be the one saying yes while the government says no, there are PLENTY of experiences where an insurance company refused to pay for a life saving procedure because it was too expensive. But let’s keep trusting corporate America to keep our personal interested at heart.
And instead trust the US government to keep your personal interest at heart?
But that’s the thing: your INSURANCE pays for it. And if facial reconstruction is outside policy, you’re SCREWED. You’re SCREWED even harder than “socialist” plans. Or: a bunch of private individuals, inside a company aka a for-profit organization, gets to decide what you should and should not get. And they’re not even elected into their roles. Worst thing about this whole mess? Most Americans don’t even get to chose the policy they get… because most Americans can’t afford one directly, and instead get life insurance through their jobs. Lose their jobs? Americans don’t even get to the point where they… Read more »
“Wkz, and you need to stop listening to the socialist propaganda.”
When do you take the time to question Corporate and GoP propaganda? Have you ever considered that the rich do NOT have your best interest in mind?
Do you think you’re a rich who’s just temporarily poor? I got bad news for you…
@FredS. Oh I’ve voted for democrats, Libertarians, independents, And republicans. It all depends on the candidates and platforms. I don’t agree with big pharmaceutical wanting to stick you on maintenance meds instead of producing cures. There are social programs I believe are needed because a condition or case is so rare locally that local private charity will never effectively address the issue. How about you. You ever honestly look at message you seem to repeat about the government? There is good and bad in both and that Is why a candidate and not jus let party affiliation matters.
He’s looking at studies showing wait times in countries with socialized medicine are far higher than in the US. You can die in other countries waiting for months, if not over a year, for things like a CT scan. In America you wait a few days, maybe a week.
But in the USA you’ll instead die AND/OR go bankrupt due to not being able to pay for it.
That’s interesting. Can you provide us with the studies that make these claims? Who funded them? Are they peer-reviewed?
If you really care about the studies you can use google. If you are trying to one up someone in a web comic thread the other dude will never check again, you can do MUCH better.
Infinite knowledge is a google search away. Go study.
As someone from a country with socialized healthcare: that’s not how it works. Also, you can still use a private hospital and pay through the nose, if you wish — the two are not mutually exclusive systems.
In your country sure. Not in all.
But that’s the point isn’t it?
Good systems work. Bad systems doesn’t. And half the time it isn’t the system itself, but how it is implemented and maintained.
And yet, to hear American politicians tell it, Socialized Healthcare can only go in one direction, down…
In many countries that is true, and most even allow “private insurance” if you choose to purchase it. (Like Thailand for instance). But other countries don’t allow private services. Some Provinces in Canada allow private MRI’s some don’t.
That’s not a correct representation of socialist healthcare. Look at healthcare in the UK, Sweden, new Zealand, Canada etc. American politics has twisted what this reresents. Private health Care is always available, you can pay for this, people can get treated without bankruptcy.
Woah, look at Mr. Moneybags over here who can afford an operation.
Yes, I can afford an operation because I make enough money in my 40 hours a week job, (that I didn’t have 6 years ago), to have enough money put away to have over 5,000 in saving accounts (when I was living in poverty 6 years ago), to cover the deductible I have for my health insurance (that I didn’t have 6 years ago) should I need an operation, and I’ll have the best chance of surviving the surgery and aftercare because the medical technology and ability of doctors in America is the highest in the world. So I’ve already… Read more »
Only “over 5000 in savings”? That’s not going to cover the cost of an operation after your insurance decides to screw you over and find a loophole that lets them not pay for it and leave you with 100% of the bill. You’d better start saving up more so you can literally provide for yourself instead of figuratively, because you’re going to need to.
1) Yeah that RARELY happens. I’ve had a few procedures, it cost me what it cost me. Insurance never flinched. Have I had issues with insurance at times? Sure. But ultimately have gotten things covered. Most people “screwed over” are because they didn’t tell about something when they signed up. The rest are outliers.
2) Do you know where private insurance gets justification for denying care? Medicare and Medicaid. They follow both in whether or not to cover things. Medicare and Medicaid are not this cover all system you think it is.
Went to the hospital for a stroke. The only insurance issue came when the ambulance tried to get paid from my dental insurance.
No I am not making that up. Two cards, they tried to bill my dental. Otherwise no issues with health insurance. Though the hospital seemed to want me a few more days since I hardly ever use my insurance. But that is a different discussion.
You are wrong about #2. Apart from the fact that insurance companies often deny coverage of procedures that are written into their plans for a variety of reasons. (I recently had coverage of a large part of a procedure’s bill declined on the grounds that the doctor that supervised the floor that I stayed overnight in was out of network, regardless of whether or not she had even looked at my chart.) Which forces people to pay for Bill’s that should be covered until appeals are run through and legal costs are paid. All of that isn’t even relevant to… Read more »
I’ve had insurance try to deny part of a bill claiming the individual was out of network even though they were an employee of the facility that is in network. You just don’t pay and eventually they’ll either pay or generally the facility will write it off. If that doesn’t happen, you negotiate and settle. But there in no way has to be legal fees. Additionally, you weren’t denied care either. You got care. The issue was just in the billing. I based what I said off my mother who has been in the medical field 30+ years as a… Read more »
5,000 is what I keep on hand. In the few years I’ve had a career instead of a job to keep me afloat (coincidentally that chance happened with the government turning Republican) I’ve been able to put away 33,000 in personal investments, not counting my 401k. I own (no payments left to make) a good car and am saving a down payment for a house. And my yearly deductible on my health insurance for full coverage is 5,000. So in 90% of the potential outcomes of falling ill enough to require that amount of payout, I’m covered. For the rest,… Read more »
Oh goody. Thoughts and prayers to the rescue. That’ll fix everything.
Good for you. Improving yourself rather than whining.
Also time to get an HSA if you don’t already have one.
Yeah dude 5k won’t cover the cost of an operation. Especially not if they ever finish undoing Obamacare and the “we won’t pay for preexisting condition” loophole is revived.
What something costs is dependent on your health insurance deductibles/max out of pockets. I also support medical providers being required to post their prices so people know upfront. Something experts estimate could bring down the cost of care significantly. My mom had a bone marrow transplant. It cost her around $10K. Furthermore, just because the bill, TO YOU, is say $8K, that does not mean you have to pay $8K on the spot. When I had my appendectomy, it cost me $3100. Did I have $3100 at the time? No. Did I get put in collections or anything? No. I… Read more »
This is hilarious. “I had a payment plan for a life-saving procedure that I needed for over a year, after emptying my savings. Good thing I didn’t need anything else or I’d have been screwed. But hey, this shows US health care is a SUCCESS!” Right….
All well and good for you. You clearly do not work minimum wage in more than one job just to pay for your family’s roof and food, and hope you have enough left over to pay for your car and utilities. Must be nice, not everyone in your country has that benefit. Here in Canada, that appendectomy would be free, not a year and a half paying off $3k. And your mom’s bone marrow transplant would be free, not TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS. Really? You think that a system that means either being rich enough to pay up front, or hamstringing… Read more »
So.. you feel safer having someone with a profit motive deciding on your healthcare instead of someone who wants Americans to be healthier? Really?
Of all the responses I got from my posts, yours is the one I need to respond to. The democratic candidates don’t want the healthcare system to be better, they want it to be controlled by the government and to be “Cheaper.” Which will cost over 30 trillion dollars, which cannot be raised in any way shape or form and still allow other processes of the government to function at all, meaning all healthcare will be rationed out. Warren even went so far as to say that Rationing will be done should she not be able to raise the needed… Read more »
Pull up a chair. Storytime. About ten years ago, after we got married, my wife and I were doing very well. I had a nice, comfortable job as an ecommerce expert in a major international corporation; my wife ran a busy retail store, with many employees under her. We made decent money; not amazing, but close to six figures. Life was pretty good. Life, then, ends up hitting you hard. My wife got sick. Needed surgery, which eventually ended with her having to leave the store. We were doing fine on my salary alone. Then she got very, VERY sick.… Read more »
Eldest, I’ve always appreciated your comments on this site, and I still do. I wish you and your wife the best, please take care of both of you.
Really appreciate it; thanks. 🙂
Damn, bro. That was tough to read. Thank you for taking the time to write all that down and being so open about your situation. I hope you and your family will face better times in the future.
Thanks, and I hope so, too. Life goes on, you know? I don’t normally share so much, but certain topics are just too important. And in my experience, honest testimony from someone who’s been there goes a lot further to open someone’s mind than reasoned arguments.
PRIDE is to pay for society, not for yourself. Paying only for yourself is simply selfish. I’m proud that my taxes’ money is maybe needed and valuable by anyone, not just by myself. But that’s how it works. Tell the people that paying for themselves is something to be proud, except it goes against all western culture values. At the same time, the US claims to be christian. Which would mean you’d care for your society, but you only care for yourself. Short Story: My wife died 6 years ago for unknown medical reasons. Only on her day of death… Read more »
Thank you, Jejerod! The fundamental truth being discussed here is that human beings (which have those human rights), are unavoidably and permanently SOCIAL creatures! We form SOCIETIES, which inherently means we have to help CARE for one another–including each other’s HEALTH. Notice the key words: SOCIAL HEALTH CARE.
Such selfish attitudes as “I want to support myself and *only* myself” can easily be argued as…inhuman.
Rand Paul we know it’s you
Wow, you sure got a lot of downvotes in a short amount of time! Hey, I’m from Australia and I want to put in a word or two. Our healthcare is socialised also, just like every civilised country except yours. And it works! No massive wait times, no medical bankruptcy. People can still splurge for fancier care (their own rooms, shop around for doctors), but public health is just that, public. Heck, doctors immigrate here internationally just to do free or next-to-free healthcare for our sick and enfeebled. All thanks to the bargaining power of a government as opposed to… Read more »
Bernie has never said he wanted our healthcare to be like Australia’s, so I can only imagine it’s working well, and allows for practices not directly controlled by the government telling you who can get care and how long it takes for them to get it.
Aside from that, I know nothing of Australia’s healthcare system.. Please enlighten me if you ever choose to.
In Australia we pay a medicare levy when we do our annual income tax return. This amounts to 2% on top of our regular income tax. There is also a medicare surcharge of 1% that is payable if the individual doesnt have private health insurance and earns over a certain annual threshold ($90K AUD). The surcharge is in place to relieve pressure on the public system by encouraging those with more disposable income to take out private health insurance. You can elect to use the public system even if you have private health insurance but may be subject to waiting… Read more »
Thank you for the education. Yeah, that sounds like a system that is allowing for both sides of the coin to be used at the same time depending on personal circumstances. And it lets the private sector have a competition against the government programs to see who is more appealing to the masses, resulting in a drive to provide the best healthcare at the lowest prices with their means. (No excess money to spend on creating vaccines and new Meds, though, only only a couple nations need to be doing that expensive shit, as we’ve seen historically to date so… Read more »
You’re welcome, additionally Australia does put a lot of government money into medical and pharmaceutical R&D. I work for CSL Behring which began as a government owned serum laboratory. Its expanded enormously and is now one of the biggest companies on our stock market (we are building a new production facility as we speak, the third one in 7 years here aswell as a new research facility last year). We export a large amount of therapeutic goods to the US aswell and even have production facilities in the states. If youre interested in the medical developments by CSL, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSL_Limited… Read more »
Scrolled down to see how long it had taken for someone to turn this political. Thanks for being that person. ?
It was political since Panel 2 of the comic. Where the heck have you been?
There’s nothing particularly political about the comic. It does not advocate for one system or another.
I understand that it can be read that way, but the comic is simply about the difference between the naivety of a kid, who assumes its as straightforward as “get sick, go to hospital, get cured”, and an adult, who realizes everything is far messier and more complex than that, and thus the bar for “success” is lower.
Fair point. In my defense, I was mostly referring to the fact that it referenced “the American Healthcare System” in an election year, when the incumbant’s position has been to dismantle a public health care system, and one of his current leading opponent’s main goals is to set up a new public health care system.
I don’t mean to say that you advocate for one or the other; only that the way the health care system is portrayed in Panel 2 will almost by default lead to these types of conversations.
Which is why I understand why people are interpreting it that way. I only clarified “U.S. Healthcare” because I have no firsthand experience with the healthcare system of any other country, and I was not interested in fielding “Well, in MY country…” emails all day.
I’m fine with the conversation taking place, I understand why it’s taking place. I’m just clarifying that it was not my intention for the comic to be a political statement.
Sorry that there’s fallout coming your way. I very intentionally made no assertion to your stances. I have my own beliefs based on empirical data, personal circumstances, and historic events… and in the late night when bad ideas seem good, I tried making a gallows humor joke about an already pretty grim subject. The rest is documented on this page.
I was honestly expecting less knee-jerk from CAD readers…
Tim hasn’t had any fallout just you, which is what happens when you spout utter nonsense and make generalised insults about a handful of other countries.
Don’t white wash it now and act like everyone just over reacted
A tip.
The absolute worst place I’ve worked was Customer Service at a bank managing Health Savings Accounts. People get very, VERY scared, frustrated, and angry when their health and money are perceived to be at risk. And for good reason – it’s all things that can affect them for the rest of their lives. Most people have stories where they, or a family member, were screwed by ‘the system’. So take care when flippantly criticizing something that effects others to such a degree. We may all be gamers, but before gamers, we’re human.
Also – don’t worry about Tim here. The community hasn’t been abusive; only critical of certain views, none of which Tim personally expressed or endorsed. Besides, I have a feeling that the number of comments a page gets is usually proportional to the number of VIEWS a page gets, which would mean that ad revenue – and profits – might actually be pretty nice for this page.
Your comment above, and subsequent defense of said comment, might actually have done him a favor. *shrug*
I’m from Canada. I’ve always received any surgery I required at the time I went to the hospital. I’ve never had to make a second trip. The times I’ve gone to an ER, I was rushed in immediately ahead of the people who just showed up to get a doctor’s note. There are also walk-in clinics everywhere, which is where even people with non-emergency symptoms (like a cold) can go to get seen immediately. Imagine convincing yourself X is better than Y without knowing anything about Y. I’ve experienced both healthcare systems and can assure you that universal healthcare offers… Read more »
“Fuck everyone else who can’t pay, right? I mean, who cares that the US economy is fucked to screw over the poor already, they can just die. Not my problem!”
Im an Australian, and every single person i know has been able to get a operation when they needed it. Even myself. And we have public healthcare.
Deal with it, you’re just a fool who believes the bullshit the 1% tell you.
Bet you think earning over 30k is a 52% tax, too.
Yeah giving the poor practically everything for free is really screwing them over.
I prefer to help the poor no longer be poor. Not help them stay poor. And no mandatory minimum wages won’t make them not be poor. Every time it’s gone up by government fiat, very few actually end out better.
I also live in Canada. Our supreme Court has made no such ruling.
letting the poor die is screwing them. Dont even try to pretend you care for them. You’re just brainwashed.
If the poor die, then there are less poor people.
Not really, as rich people need poor people who buy their products/services or just work for them in their franchises. Less poor people will probably cause less rich ones.
That’s the Bernie Sander’s approach right there. He’s praised every communist regime that’s done that!
Actually, helping the poor has been shown to help society in general. You’re trying to justify sociopathy.
This guy explains it better than I can: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z2XRg3dy9k
maybe you can take a look to any other developped country around the world instead of bullshiting
Erm, no not even in the US system, that isn’t how it works. It’s all dependent on how busy the physician and surgeon in question are, what is being replaced (Heart, Lung, Kidneys have wait lists, regardless of how much money you have), etc. We had to wait *three months* to see a Pulmonologist for a “First Visit” despite having seen the same pulmonologist during Lung Cancer Treatment (Which, would have been impossible to receive prior to ACA by-the-by), in that time in the highly vaunted “Most Effective Healthcare system in the world” we had *four* return visits to the… Read more »
Worth noting that Australia and Canada have higher life expectancies than any US state. Wonder why that is?
Apologies, I checked and exactly one state has caught up to Canada’s average – Hawaii, to be specific. A few rankings to consider of the US against otherwise similar nations:
Life expectancy of Australia: 83.3
Life expectancy of highest ranked US state (Hawaii): 82.5
Life expectancy of Canada: 82.3
Life expectancy of the UK: 81.2
Life expectancy of the USA: 78.9 (35th in the world, tied with Lebanon)
Life expectancy of Mexico: 75.0
Life expectancy of lowest-ranked US state (Mississippi): 74.8
Thanks for the update. Have you ever taken Car Wrecks and homicide out of the equation to see what the life expectancy is in each country? I’m just saying that life expectancy isn’t the best measure for “healthcare”. Forbes had an article on this a while back. Also the USA has the highest Cancer survival rate (Or did).
USA is 3rd highest population in the world up to 4x more then these countries you listed. So yeah makes sense.
You uhh…don’t really understand how averages work do you? It doesn’t matter how much larger the population is, the formula is the same. The reason the USA has one of the lowest life expectances in the world for a first world nation (ignoring everything gun related) is actually mostly due to the ungodly high mortality rate of women two weeks post child birth. There are nations in Africa who lack electricity that have a higher survival rate for women who give birth than the USA. As for why, the major reason is due to hospitals in the US keeping women… Read more »
You’re comparing Entire Countries to a single state? The USA has the 3rd highest population behind China and India. So yeah Higher population is going to lower that rate. duh.
No, dummy, he compares the entire country, then also gives the highest and lowest state. You’d know that if you actually read his entire post before downvoting and hitting reply.
Chronic obesity.
For those wondering about the Canadian Supreme Court ruling bit, I think he’s talking about Chaoulli v Quebec (AG) [2005] where the Supreme Court ruled that the Quebec Health Insurance Act and the Hospital Insurance Act prohibiting private medical insurance in the face of long wait times violated the Quebec Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms. Basically, Quebec wanted to be socialized healthcare only and two guys (Dr. Chaoulli and his 73 year old patient waiting on hip replacement) were able to get the Canadian Supreme Court to see it as violating the Quebec Charter and almost the Canadian Charter… Read more »
You’re in the wrong forum. Your bosses at the Russian troll farm need you on facebook or twitter.
Check this graph:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita#/media/File:OECD_health_expenditure_per_capita_by_country.svg
Good luck paying up the wazoo for shitty healtcare, and if you’re not insured better start digging your own grave…
For some sake of my attempt to understand this problem clearly: The 2005 SCC decision: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC558367/ A 2018 professional discussion Canadian healthcare: https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/podcast/2018/oct/truth-about-waiting-see-doctor-canada I’m not a Canadian or a doctor, my only qualification is that I might someday again need healthcare. It seems unlikely that, if you’re making an argument with absolute certainty that a simple solution exists(pure open market or total socializion), you’re capturing enough detail to be correct. Regardless of your stance–Health care certainly seems like a thing everyone should have. The debate *shouldn’t* be about if which side believes that. It’s a matter of how best to… Read more »
A friend just had a “mild” heart attack, went to hospital for a check up, was admitted, surgery and about 5 days later was released. Back home 2 days ago.
Socialized healthcare for the win
And even if there is a wait list, private can also run into that problem.
But a system based on private insurance favours the wealthy.
wow like my grandfather that had one and no insurance went to the ER and was admitted right away and into surgery.
And then got screwed with the bills!
You did happen to notice the bit where James Kite’s friend didn’t have to pay a single dollar for his visit right? How much did your grandfather’s medical bill cost?
So cute you think it’s free. My grandfather paid his bills, rather than expecting the government to tax the citizens to pay for it. Someone is paying for that bill if you believe it’s free you’re clearly uneducated. My wife and her family left socialist country with “Free” healthcare. Guess what they like it here and prefer it to the hell they lived in before.
Late 90s, judging by the kid’s shirt
That’s actually what I started browsing the comments for: what is his shirt supposed to have on the front?
Looks like Radiohead’s OK Computer album cover. One of the top 5 albums of the decade for most 90s kids. A very appropriate shirt choice for a computer geek at that time anywhere in North America. Mine was of a NIN album cover.
Oh yeah, so true. I have three stars on every single level in this game, and a grand total of zero “No Deaths” trophies (awarded every in-game year). It’s literally impossible. Patients are complete morons who’d rather have a drink than go to surgery when they have 30 seconds to live. And even if they get there on time, some illnesses have so high a difficulty that even the best doctors and equipment can’t guarantee success. Thankfully deaths are pretty much irrelevant in this game. They’re only a minor reputation hit, which is more than recovered by curing another patient,… Read more »
I quite like both games, even though Theme Hospital was much harder (because with the amount of deaths you have sometimes or with partly -50.000 Balance in worst case you would have lost in Theme Hospital already).
This is absurd. Where are the piles of bodies?
If it weren’t so absurd I’d wish for you people who think this way to see how “wonderful” things will be when you have to apply to some bureaucrat for your health care.
Don’t even bother, the children have been told all these years that the govenrment will give them free stuff for nothing. They believe it without even thinking. They believe countries with free healthcare would work here in the USA when it won’t. But again they have been raised to believe in the magical free stuff fairy.
Oh, socialised (not necessarily free, like with medication, but believe what you want) WOULD work in the U.S, but it would require root and branch rebuilding of your health care system, de-programming of people who fanatically believe in “free market rules everything!”, and somehow going around the lobbyists who work on behalf of the “big pharma” giants in the U.S. So there are certainly obstacles, but none of them have to do with it simply not being possible in the U.S. It’s due to culture and corporate interference, little else.
Ok Gen Z
For example? I sure as hell don’t have to do that, speaking as someone in Australia. I go see my GP, she points me toward a specialist if needed, and I go talk to them. If I have to go to a hospital, she’ll either get an ambulance to me or tell me to make my way there with her letter saying “treat this poor twit!”, which happened to me once.
That year without a death award is just about impossible!
Two point hospital is great. Though it was frustrating at times. The AI pathing was an issue.
After half a century, the government has still not honoured its commitment, and its performance declines with each passing year, despite increased spending. Furthermore, the government made it illegal for citizens to pay private parties for the health care which the government fails to provide. Waiting, Waiting, Waiting for a Doctor According to a Fraser Institute survey, for medically necessary treatment, the median waiting time for patients in Canada from referral by a general practitioner to consultation with a specialist, and then to the date of actual treatment, was 21.2 weeks in 2017. This year’s [2017] wait time — the… Read more »
You act like people in this county can instantly get the procedures instantly in this county. My dad has very good insurance and he still had to wait over three months to get his knee surgery approved after a skiing accident that was on top of the month and a half he had to wait because he had to wait to see the approved orthopedic surgeon on his insurance because they where so backed up. So all told he had to wait just over 18 weeks for a medically necessary procedure but because of insurance he had to wait. That… Read more »
Matt, I’m pretty sure this guy is a bot. Look at the formatting of his comment not to mention the sheer length of it. I might be wrong, but this looks like a bunch of copy and pasted commentary instead of a person saying something.
Not necessarily a bot, but copy/pasted for sure. This is from Mises Institute, a website that mediabiasfactcheck.com rates as “Right Bias” and “Factual Reporting: Mixed.” It favors the Libertarian Right, not necessarily the Republican Right. Ron Paul is one of the board members. It does not reveal its donors or shareholders.
The article: https://mises.org/wire/universal-health-care-canada-colossal-government-failure
The factcheck: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/mises-daily/
Not necessarily a bot, but copy/pasted for sure. This is from Mises Institute, a website that mediabiasfactcheck.com rates as “Right Bias” and “Factual Reporting: Mixed.” It favors the Libertarian Right, not necessarily the Republican Right. Ron Paul is one of the board members. It does not reveal its donors or shareholders. It’s important to note that Mises is based in Auburn, Alabama, not Canada. So while I don’t know anything in particular about the claims they make, it’s important to note that they’re making those claims as an outside observer, not from a position of experience; and furthermore, from a… Read more »
90’s kid reminds of old comic Ethan. OH how I miss those days for me. First discovering CAD and then going back and reading through the archives. Plus I was a lot younger and had hair.
Coronavirus, bro?
Apparently many Insurances Companies in the US refuse to cover the expenses for the Coronavirus-test so if you want to take such a test it cost you 1400$. Like damn! No wonder the USA only tested 500 people so far, those were the ones who could afford that. xD
I was wrong about the 1400$, that’s what you pay when Insurance take up part of the real cost. With no Insurance it costs 3270$. And given there are couple ten millions with no Insurance in the USA, that gonna be tough for them to cough up when it matters.
Just cough on a rich person and see how they test.
That’ll be in the game’s next expansion.
I’m from country with socialized healthcare. People absolutely die in wait lines. Amputations are becoming preferred treatment options in some cases. Only 38% of people are using socialized healthcare exclusively. And it’s so bad that even private healthcare quality is dropping, due to public healthcare setting the bar so frikking low.
What country.
1700s Canada?
I’m kidding, I’m kidding
But actually though, that doesn’t sound plausible. I can’t think of any major country that’s had serious issues with socialized healthcare in that particular regard, at least none where it wouldn’t also be a problem for private health care (like, say, organ transplant issues).
Bullshit. I’m from Canada and the wait times are completely manageable and the level or care is great. I’m a Type I diabetic who is thankful every day that I wasn’t born in the U.S.
Is this a game series? I’ve never heard of this
Ouch, too real.
That’s very sad.
6 years later that kid created an online comic strip…
I’ve never played those games, are they fun?
If you like sim/management games, they’re a blast.
Hah, funny to see this perspective as these games are made in Britain, so it’s a little more NHS inspired.
Of course the easiest way to avoid deaths in Theme Hospital was to discharge patients who are about to croak, they walk out and die but that’s no longer your problem and thus doesn’t count – also kind of prescient in light of “patient dumping” which happens in the USA (although that’s more to do with freeing up beds in the middle of the night for better paying customer-I mean patients).
Americans bashing their healthcare calling for socialized healthcare? Check.
Having so called “reliable and usable” socialized healthcare of western europe and still having to wait for operation 1 year only for it to be botched then waiting another 3 months for another appointment and hearing “You can cut out the foreign body left by the doctor yourself…” while still having to deduct 18% extra healthcare tax from income…
…check.
* Puts fingers in my ears and screams *
LA LA LA LA LA No more politics, people, please! LA LA LA LA LA If I want that I’ll go to CNN! LA LA LA LA LA
Oof, poor choice. You don’t get politics from CNN, only “Trump is Devil-Hitler”.
Then again, getting your politics solely from any of the major mainstream cable news outlets is ill advised.
Waiting for political shitstorm in 1, 2, … aw fuck it’s already there.
I think we all knew it was coming, one way or another.
As an American living in Canada, let me just say that in terms of waiting, Canada is way worse than the US. You can see a doctor within a couple hours for non-emergency stuff in the US. Canada? You have to make an appointment 6 months in advance, and then when you show up at the appointed time, then you have to wait another hour.
The World: America, you REALLY need to fi your health care system.
America: That sounds like COMMUNISM.
Well, I guess you never seen Libertarians before.
I mean they will say Healthcare System need to be fixed…assuming if you bother to ask them “how”.
I mean I’ve made a mistake of talking one who seems to be not out of touch before they began spouting “blame it on government intervention, trying using my methods that mostly involve more privatization and screwing over poor people”.
That statement felt stale and trite now since there are actual assholes, especially libertarians I mentioned, who seems to exploit that notion to promote their half baked idea.
The American “healthcare” system is great at lowering one’s standards of what “healthcare” actually is. Our Great Nation’s (/s) half baked, overpriced, under performing, hodgepodge, broken, mutant “healthcare” system is a running joke compared to the rest of the developed world.What’s depressing is how many are fighting to keep this crapsack system because of fears of ‘socialism’ and ‘owning the libs’. Healthcare should be a right not a privilege, a basic benefit of living in a civilized nation (assuming America still counts as “civilized” with all the gun violence). Of course, this could all change for the worse as the… Read more »
Assuming if you bother to ask “how” instead of “we should”, besides the politicians, you can try talking if they are that reluctant and your perception made it seem like one, especially the ones I mentioned below. Keep in mind that public are just like politicians too. Remember when people (including Bernie Sanders and my goddamn hippie teacher who see the insurance fine—the one targeted by Supreme Court—as targeting at poor people) bitch ACA being half baked (not to mention not voting against Trump, who is responsible for said current Supreme Court makeup, due to said issue with Hilary even… Read more »
One of the most terrifying and horrible experiences in my life involved getting stuck in the waiting room for 2-3 hours while every breath I struggled to make felt like getting stabbed with a piping hot iron.
Now part of me imagined that Theme Hospital wanted to raise children and/or adult gamers into reformers of healthcare system by trying to appeal to their (presumably) compassion. Though considering how much of them turned to Libertarianism (no offense but they seem kinda “off” on such subject for “reform minded”*, not to mention spreading internationally since Boris’s conservatives seems to be neutering National Healthcare for “cost saving measures”)…I think they failed. * By reform minded, I mean admitting that health system has flaws…and keep insisting that government/doctor/anyone not private business is the problem and suggesting more privatization. Just read any… Read more »
See now that’s the wrong attitude for Theme Hospital, the correct attitude is “I need more doctors more medicines more machines! These people are coming to me for help and I want to get my ‘no deaths’ bonus this year!”
This is so prophetic after a year in the pandemic
…. That’s the Canadian healthcare system. We actually get treated quickly in the US.