I’m not sure how good that bluff of yours is going to work, but hey, let Lucas cook.
(as a side note, this prison is surprisingly poor at keeping super powers at bay if someone from the outside can just manifest their powers inside like that. I mean, you can only do so much, but I’m also noticing the complete lack of guards on the ground… wouldn’t be hard for villains to help break their captured allies out.)
What do you think why the villains in comic books always return, no matter how often they’re apprehended. Authorities probably figured out that it’s better to have Supes fight each other instead of having one group or the other go down the Homelander path.
I agree. The Troll might focus simply on the trolling, and not on what he intended with the poison. Though his true intentions was just sowing doubt. It doesn’t matter if the serum does or doesn’t work. It should only have the appearance it could work. The Troll probably had no intention of it working or not working at all. The prison is curious, but let’s give them the benefit of a doubt. Probably there is a risk assessment that determined the Troll to be safe from busting out or being harassed by supers. In this case, making mistakes is… Read more »
The lack of guards is weird, but the Troll isn’t a super-Super. Just a successful psychotic leading a cult of normies, so considering how expensive a place with nullifiers and unobtainium walls would be to maintain, space is surely limited and he’s just in a regular supermax
Lucas’ one advantage is that he’s not actually angry. While he’s putting on a good front, he’ll be able to think objectively on whatever the Troll has to say. Does that mean he’s going to get a straight answer? Absolutely not. But he’ll be able to keep his ears open for inconsistencies in the Troll’s story if he keeps him talking long enough. When your entire life is nothing but lies, you can’t keep all those lies straight.
I would say it doesn’t necessarily matter what he says, it is how he reacts. He could give away a lot as it will really catch him off guard if he is lying.
At face value Lucas’s bluff makes no sense, if the troll was bluffing about removing Ethan’s powers he’ll know Lucas is bluffing too and just play along. If he wasn’t bluffing he’ll also play along because that’s what he expected to happen. Either way he’ll just go “Lol, told you so!” and Lucas committed a felony just to be none the wiser.
This is kinda like the Joker and Batman thing. Joker doesn’t really want Batman dead because Batman is fun to play with. Same with Ethan and The Troll. Ethan is The Trolls favorite toy and I don’t think he really wants him dead, just wants to play with him. There has been plenty of cases where a super’s powers stopped working because of self doubt. Spiderman for example.
Except if the Troll was bluffing about removing Ethan’s powers, then he won’t know for sure that Lucas IS bluffing. And would potentially show surprise, even for a brief moment.
Especially if he fears that Lucas is about to carry through with his threat of vengeance, and the Troll wasn’t intending for Ethan to actually lose his powers and die.
eh, the troll is already in for murder and attempted murder/terrorism (recall that in the console boomboom choice, the PC person had “blue screened” after getting wired up), so unless Lucas is about to play the death penalty card, not much for the Troll to lose. And the only thing that makes a gaslighter happier than you believing them, is finding out they were actually right.
Shy Hot Prince
1 month ago
The approach is correct: start with the bluff. If he just came with questions, he would never get an answer. Then again, someone specialised on trolling people might either call the bluff or simply act surprised. Will be interesting to see how he reacts. The troll might also assume that Ethan’s power has a psychological component that he has disturbed. I mean, the readers know from the first death that Ethan’s power work unconditionally. But the troll may think, they only work as long as he believes in them. Also, the move from Lucas is risky. Giant floating glowing arrows… Read more »
BB has it right above, not matter what, the Troll’s answer is same. “Yup I got him killed, but I didn’t kill him. I was in jail at the time, just try to convict me”
Would bet about a law of capes murdering, which allow to present murder chargers without revealing identities (you are charged for killing super hit, but not for killing Bob Thompson).
But of course, this isn’t my universe, but Tim’s
Del Cox
1 month ago
If murder was never part of his charges, does that mean his comment about killing the “PC” guy during setup was just a troll? Wouldn’t be out of character, but also weird that would just slide.
Hard to believe it’s been nearly 10 years.
Tim might have just forgotten. Or the police might not have been able to confirm the murder was real because the troll never really knew who he blew up
I didn’t forget. But the police don’t even know the Troll’s name. They have no information about him, his fingerprints aren’t in the system, etc… He’s a John Doe. The Troll is not likely to have said “by the way, I was living at (insert address) and you may find evidence of a murder there!”
They exist, but they tend to have overwhelming evidence a murder took place even if they can’t recover the body. Someone’s brains splattered on a wall would be very powerful proof someone died and wasn’t merely injured. Just having blood around is proof someone bled, but a competent lawyer could sew doubt whether they died from it, or if it was even a victim and not someone who just butchers their own chickens.
Its a little more then no body no murder. Sure they can have the troll confessing he murdered a man. But that murder has to be connected to someone, even if its a John Doe. They’d have to find the remains of PC guy somewhere, or connect the Troll to a another missing person.
Gotta say man, I started reading your stuff in high school, circa 2006-7 and I’m digging what you’ve done. I’ve been here ever since. I can’t wait to see how this unfolds.
Lucas is making a drama, so such one-liners are probably not to be taken too seriously.
Jedi
1 month ago
Would be quite of a plot twist now if the troll plays on and claims that its not his fault as he didnt kill ethan. Same time Ethan has an accident and gets hospitalized and is on the verge of death. But i assume that would go too far and just drag out a close of this story …
People did predict this in the comments, to be fair
leduk
1 month ago
it’s geting better and better
Gonfrask
1 month ago
Lucas expecting the Troll to confess what there was in the syringe with a classic “that thing was just water, can’t kill him” or alike 🤔.
The Troll already has murder chargers on him… Don’t seem the best way to make him “confess”
AustynSN
1 month ago
At risk of bragging, Lucas bluffing about Ethan dying was kind of how I figured this would play out.
Pretty easy and obvious plan, but simple enough that I worry The Troll might catch on pretty easily.
I worry that there are no further steps to the plan. What does Lucas plan to do if Troll’s response is non sequitur?
Even if the Troll just laughs “yes, I did that”, it doesn’t actually prove that Ethan’s powers are gone. Lucas can only learn something in the “oh no, it was colored water” response, and even then it might be a bluff-back.
If Troll even knows. He got some scientist to make it for him, he may not know himself if it would actually work or not. He wouldn’t care either way, given his goal is to make Ethan doubt. Shrodingers syringe is itself the goal, not actually making ethan mortal.
There is no risk there mate. If you look through the comments of the last few comics, it was the prevailing theory that he would use something like this.
However, the Troll his goal was doubt for Ethan. Taking his powers wasn’t the goal at all. All he needed was something plausible. Without any way to test it, the Troll has just as much idea if it works as anyone else. The likelihood that he knows at all is low, and all he might do is troll more.
Last edited 1 month ago by Darkhorse
Inferno390
1 month ago
There’s a lot of good discussion around whether or not the Troll will reveal anything with this bluff or how he’ll respond, and I want to point out one key detail: The Troll seems to have dedicated his life to making Ethan miserable, in a very self-appointed arch-nemesis kind of way. If he sees Ethan dying as escaping his punishment, he may react very strongly and negatively to that (“WHAT? That’s wasn’t supposed to happen!”), and the emotional break might be all Lucas needs to get the truth.
That’s what I see as the only “good” outcome here. It’s the instantaneous reaction that will hopefully overcome his sneaky trolling. It’s still not 100% but would hopefully give some indication
Zit
1 month ago
I know a lot of people have pointed out that it seems weird how little security there is for a prison, and how little attention is being paid to Lucas here. What seems to be forgotten is that the only reason he’s here is because he chatted with a cop about it, who had to get the info from somewhere. Ben doesn’t seem the type to really facilitate a random interrogation, either. He seems very by the books. Beyond that, Lucas and Ethan aren’t no-names. They’ve worked with law enforcement and other supers before. Sure, they may not be Big… Read more »
But he doesn’t need a confession of murder because Ethan’s not dead. He’s trying to get an emotional reaction which will indicate whether the Troll truly expected his serum to take Ethan’s powers or not, with the threat of a(nother?) murder charge being the kicker to get around his sneaky trolling nature
However even for that, having a recording is still a lot more valuable than just fickle memory. Much better to be able to take good recordings to other people and have them analyze it instead of relying on his initial interpretations. Especially given dealing with someone who specializes in trolling…
And likewise, there’s still all the other factors that point to it being much more likely that the prison wardens authorized this visit. I don’t really see Ben helping conduct an off-the-books interrogation.
Did you miss two pages ago, when Ben walked out of the room leaving his laptop unattended, so Lucas could find where the Troll is being held without going through proper channels? Or are you assuming that played out differently than the obvious “Lucas did that, then came here”?
Ben
1 month ago
OK, so at least he had a plan. Not sure how well it’s going to work, though.
Best case scenario: The troll gets really excited about all the media attention he’ll get when they attempt to try him for a murder he didn’t technically commit. Gets his hopes up, writes a few speeches in his head. Then has to be all disappointed when he finds out it wasn’t real.
Crestlinger
1 month ago
Villain arc: ‘But first I’m Downvoting your hands’. *Slice. *Slice.
Brian
1 month ago
Best case scenario: Troll gets legit shocked by this and goes “what it was just a prank bro!” And proves Ethan still has his powers
Worst case: Troll sees through the bluff and uses Lucas’s attack as fuel for some bullshit legal defense to reduce or cancel his sentence and get back put on the street.
Don’t see how. Something that happened in prison wouldn’t affect his actions leading up to his being in prison. At best they’d move him to a DIFFERENT one.
Paula
1 month ago
Ah, well done, Lucas!
Phaet
1 month ago
Ohh I see what he’s doing.
foducool
1 month ago
oooooh trolling the troll now?
Reshad
1 month ago
This troll is so tame. Real life trolls are spreading fascism and maneuvering the world towards ww3.
william
1 month ago
smart play. force him to admit the toxin is a fake.
ThatGuy
1 month ago
I keep forgetting how clever Lucas is. Troll isn’t stupid, though. Pretty sure he knows it’s a bluff and will play along. He’s like Batman’s Joker: He’s so insane you can’t tell when he’s lying or telling the truth most of the time.
Boof
1 month ago
Nice
James
1 month ago
Here’s the ways i see this shaking out. The serum is fake. 3 out comes. A the troll knows he’s lying because he knows the serum is fake. He messes with Lucas and says yeah of course he’s dead i told you exactly what would happen. Lucas tells Ethan the serum is real. He doesn’t know it’s fake but he continues being a hero anyway and this accomplishes nothing but putting a target on Lucas’s new relationship, eventually ending it, or worse. B the troll knows Lucas is lying about Ethan being dead because the serum is fake, tells him… Read more »
ChibiAcer
1 month ago
Oh. That’s probably a better bluff than claiming the poison didn’t work. We’ll see if it works, but more thought out than I expected. Good luck Lucas.
Xero
1 month ago
oh that’s clever, depending on how the Troll reacts will tell him a lot
Rune
1 month ago
and it was at that moment the Troll revealed his superpower. The ability to instantly break his own neck. It was only good for one use…..but if you timed it right it was a hell of a joke.
24
I’m not sure how good that bluff of yours is going to work, but hey, let Lucas cook.
(as a side note, this prison is surprisingly poor at keeping super powers at bay if someone from the outside can just manifest their powers inside like that. I mean, you can only do so much, but I’m also noticing the complete lack of guards on the ground… wouldn’t be hard for villains to help break their captured allies out.)
What do you think why the villains in comic books always return, no matter how often they’re apprehended. Authorities probably figured out that it’s better to have Supes fight each other instead of having one group or the other go down the Homelander path.
I agree. The Troll might focus simply on the trolling, and not on what he intended with the poison. Though his true intentions was just sowing doubt. It doesn’t matter if the serum does or doesn’t work. It should only have the appearance it could work. The Troll probably had no intention of it working or not working at all. The prison is curious, but let’s give them the benefit of a doubt. Probably there is a risk assessment that determined the Troll to be safe from busting out or being harassed by supers. In this case, making mistakes is… Read more »
The lack of guards is weird, but the Troll isn’t a super-Super. Just a successful psychotic leading a cult of normies, so considering how expensive a place with nullifiers and unobtainium walls would be to maintain, space is surely limited and he’s just in a regular supermax
Lucas’ one advantage is that he’s not actually angry. While he’s putting on a good front, he’ll be able to think objectively on whatever the Troll has to say. Does that mean he’s going to get a straight answer? Absolutely not. But he’ll be able to keep his ears open for inconsistencies in the Troll’s story if he keeps him talking long enough. When your entire life is nothing but lies, you can’t keep all those lies straight.
I would say it doesn’t necessarily matter what he says, it is how he reacts. He could give away a lot as it will really catch him off guard if he is lying.
At face value Lucas’s bluff makes no sense, if the troll was bluffing about removing Ethan’s powers he’ll know Lucas is bluffing too and just play along. If he wasn’t bluffing he’ll also play along because that’s what he expected to happen. Either way he’ll just go “Lol, told you so!” and Lucas committed a felony just to be none the wiser.
This is kinda like the Joker and Batman thing. Joker doesn’t really want Batman dead because Batman is fun to play with. Same with Ethan and The Troll. Ethan is The Trolls favorite toy and I don’t think he really wants him dead, just wants to play with him. There has been plenty of cases where a super’s powers stopped working because of self doubt. Spiderman for example.
Except if the Troll was bluffing about removing Ethan’s powers, then he won’t know for sure that Lucas IS bluffing. And would potentially show surprise, even for a brief moment.
Especially if he fears that Lucas is about to carry through with his threat of vengeance, and the Troll wasn’t intending for Ethan to actually lose his powers and die.
Self-preservation is a powerful thing.
If the troll shows surprise he knows it’s fake. If the troll shows being upset at being charged with murder, he knows it’s fake.
The troll’s never indicated he has any power. It’s possible this is a regular prison, not one for supers.
Not sure if I want to let Lucas cook, it was established he’s quite bad at it, at least way worse than Ben. But let’s see how he handles the Troll.
eh, the troll is already in for murder and attempted murder/terrorism (recall that in the console boomboom choice, the PC person had “blue screened” after getting wired up), so unless Lucas is about to play the death penalty card, not much for the Troll to lose. And the only thing that makes a gaslighter happier than you believing them, is finding out they were actually right.
The approach is correct: start with the bluff. If he just came with questions, he would never get an answer. Then again, someone specialised on trolling people might either call the bluff or simply act surprised. Will be interesting to see how he reacts. The troll might also assume that Ethan’s power has a psychological component that he has disturbed. I mean, the readers know from the first death that Ethan’s power work unconditionally. But the troll may think, they only work as long as he believes in them. Also, the move from Lucas is risky. Giant floating glowing arrows… Read more »
BB has it right above, not matter what, the Troll’s answer is same. “Yup I got him killed, but I didn’t kill him. I was in jail at the time, just try to convict me”
eh… I feel like Troll can just disregard his threat with a simple, “Murder? How you going to do that without revealing your secret identities?”
Would bet about a law of capes murdering, which allow to present murder chargers without revealing identities (you are charged for killing super hit, but not for killing Bob Thompson).
But of course, this isn’t my universe, but Tim’s
If murder was never part of his charges, does that mean his comment about killing the “PC” guy during setup was just a troll? Wouldn’t be out of character, but also weird that would just slide.
Hard to believe it’s been nearly 10 years.
Tim might have just forgotten. Or the police might not have been able to confirm the murder was real because the troll never really knew who he blew up
I didn’t forget. But the police don’t even know the Troll’s name. They have no information about him, his fingerprints aren’t in the system, etc… He’s a John Doe. The Troll is not likely to have said “by the way, I was living at (insert address) and you may find evidence of a murder there!”
Or maybe he was just trolling. 🙂
Either way, no body, no murder.
“No body, no murder” rules out a few Dateline episodes, does it not? 😉
Pretty sure there have been murder prosecutions with no body, although they are few and far between.
They exist, but they tend to have overwhelming evidence a murder took place even if they can’t recover the body. Someone’s brains splattered on a wall would be very powerful proof someone died and wasn’t merely injured. Just having blood around is proof someone bled, but a competent lawyer could sew doubt whether they died from it, or if it was even a victim and not someone who just butchers their own chickens.
Its a little more then no body no murder. Sure they can have the troll confessing he murdered a man. But that murder has to be connected to someone, even if its a John Doe. They’d have to find the remains of PC guy somewhere, or connect the Troll to a another missing person.
Gotta say man, I started reading your stuff in high school, circa 2006-7 and I’m digging what you’ve done. I’ve been here ever since. I can’t wait to see how this unfolds.
Lucas is making a drama, so such one-liners are probably not to be taken too seriously.
Would be quite of a plot twist now if the troll plays on and claims that its not his fault as he didnt kill ethan. Same time Ethan has an accident and gets hospitalized and is on the verge of death. But i assume that would go too far and just drag out a close of this story …
Ohhh, wasn’t expecting that.
That’s a clever move Lucas! Hope it pays!
People did predict this in the comments, to be fair
it’s geting better and better
Lucas expecting the Troll to confess what there was in the syringe with a classic “that thing was just water, can’t kill him” or alike 🤔.
The Troll already has murder chargers on him… Don’t seem the best way to make him “confess”
At risk of bragging, Lucas bluffing about Ethan dying was kind of how I figured this would play out.
Pretty easy and obvious plan, but simple enough that I worry The Troll might catch on pretty easily.
I worry that there are no further steps to the plan. What does Lucas plan to do if Troll’s response is non sequitur?
Even if the Troll just laughs “yes, I did that”, it doesn’t actually prove that Ethan’s powers are gone. Lucas can only learn something in the “oh no, it was colored water” response, and even then it might be a bluff-back.
By his words there’s no guarantee either way, this is all hinging more on how good Lucas is at calling bluffs than anything else.
If Troll even knows. He got some scientist to make it for him, he may not know himself if it would actually work or not. He wouldn’t care either way, given his goal is to make Ethan doubt. Shrodingers syringe is itself the goal, not actually making ethan mortal.
There is no risk there mate. If you look through the comments of the last few comics, it was the prevailing theory that he would use something like this.
However, the Troll his goal was doubt for Ethan. Taking his powers wasn’t the goal at all. All he needed was something plausible. Without any way to test it, the Troll has just as much idea if it works as anyone else. The likelihood that he knows at all is low, and all he might do is troll more.
There’s a lot of good discussion around whether or not the Troll will reveal anything with this bluff or how he’ll respond, and I want to point out one key detail: The Troll seems to have dedicated his life to making Ethan miserable, in a very self-appointed arch-nemesis kind of way. If he sees Ethan dying as escaping his punishment, he may react very strongly and negatively to that (“WHAT? That’s wasn’t supposed to happen!”), and the emotional break might be all Lucas needs to get the truth.
That’s what I see as the only “good” outcome here. It’s the instantaneous reaction that will hopefully overcome his sneaky trolling. It’s still not 100% but would hopefully give some indication
I know a lot of people have pointed out that it seems weird how little security there is for a prison, and how little attention is being paid to Lucas here. What seems to be forgotten is that the only reason he’s here is because he chatted with a cop about it, who had to get the info from somewhere. Ben doesn’t seem the type to really facilitate a random interrogation, either. He seems very by the books. Beyond that, Lucas and Ethan aren’t no-names. They’ve worked with law enforcement and other supers before. Sure, they may not be Big… Read more »
But he doesn’t need a confession of murder because Ethan’s not dead. He’s trying to get an emotional reaction which will indicate whether the Troll truly expected his serum to take Ethan’s powers or not, with the threat of a(nother?) murder charge being the kicker to get around his sneaky trolling nature
That’s true.
However even for that, having a recording is still a lot more valuable than just fickle memory. Much better to be able to take good recordings to other people and have them analyze it instead of relying on his initial interpretations. Especially given dealing with someone who specializes in trolling…
And likewise, there’s still all the other factors that point to it being much more likely that the prison wardens authorized this visit. I don’t really see Ben helping conduct an off-the-books interrogation.
Did you miss two pages ago, when Ben walked out of the room leaving his laptop unattended, so Lucas could find where the Troll is being held without going through proper channels? Or are you assuming that played out differently than the obvious “Lucas did that, then came here”?
OK, so at least he had a plan. Not sure how well it’s going to work, though.
Best case scenario: The troll gets really excited about all the media attention he’ll get when they attempt to try him for a murder he didn’t technically commit. Gets his hopes up, writes a few speeches in his head. Then has to be all disappointed when he finds out it wasn’t real.
Villain arc: ‘But first I’m Downvoting your hands’. *Slice. *Slice.
Best case scenario: Troll gets legit shocked by this and goes “what it was just a prank bro!” And proves Ethan still has his powers
Worst case: Troll sees through the bluff and uses Lucas’s attack as fuel for some bullshit legal defense to reduce or cancel his sentence and get back put on the street.
Don’t see how. Something that happened in prison wouldn’t affect his actions leading up to his being in prison. At best they’d move him to a DIFFERENT one.
Ah, well done, Lucas!
Ohh I see what he’s doing.
oooooh trolling the troll now?
This troll is so tame. Real life trolls are spreading fascism and maneuvering the world towards ww3.
smart play. force him to admit the toxin is a fake.
I keep forgetting how clever Lucas is. Troll isn’t stupid, though. Pretty sure he knows it’s a bluff and will play along. He’s like Batman’s Joker: He’s so insane you can’t tell when he’s lying or telling the truth most of the time.
Nice
Here’s the ways i see this shaking out. The serum is fake. 3 out comes. A the troll knows he’s lying because he knows the serum is fake. He messes with Lucas and says yeah of course he’s dead i told you exactly what would happen. Lucas tells Ethan the serum is real. He doesn’t know it’s fake but he continues being a hero anyway and this accomplishes nothing but putting a target on Lucas’s new relationship, eventually ending it, or worse. B the troll knows Lucas is lying about Ethan being dead because the serum is fake, tells him… Read more »
Oh. That’s probably a better bluff than claiming the poison didn’t work. We’ll see if it works, but more thought out than I expected. Good luck Lucas.
oh that’s clever, depending on how the Troll reacts will tell him a lot
and it was at that moment the Troll revealed his superpower. The ability to instantly break his own neck. It was only good for one use…..but if you timed it right it was a hell of a joke.