Scott would have to perceive Zeke as “him” before that idea would occur to Scott, and he’s been referring to Zeke as “it” the whole time. If Scott could perceive Zeke as a person, this whole situation wouldn’t exist in the first place, because he wouldn’t have been willing (one hopes) to geo-fence a person by rigging his head to explode. There would have been no bomb to lie to his friends about. No information gap precipitating said head-exploding in a situation where it didn’t even serve its intended purpose (protecting people from the bomb-rigged person doing something hostile). So… Read more »
So for the a video game comparison. Let’s look at the Synths of Fallout 4
Their creators the institute don’t consider them to be sapient. They see any signs of self-determination are a malfunction.
The Railroad sees them as people and as the name would imply wish to free them.
The Brotherhood of Steel believes they are Sapient and their existence is a threat to humanity. That allowed to grow unchecked they would eventually overthrow humanity.
Scott is fully in the Brotherhood camp. He’ll accept that Zeke is sapient, which is the problem he fears the robot apocalypse.
Didn’t work for three reasons.
First – quote is wrong. It’s just “Donkey!”
Second – context doesn’t work. If this was a string of people saying “Ethan!” “Scott!” “Zeke!” then maybe “Donkey!” would have made sense.
Third – Shronk is fairly ancient by Internet standards, so I doubt you’d get more than a few chuckles at best, even if done perfectly.
But wouldn’t it be ironic if he hadn’t been doing anything futher destructive after the bomb detonation which he did not intend (because he had no knowledge Ethan was going to bring ZK out)? We don’t know what he’s been doing on his phone. He could be calling the cops. He could be saying goodbye to someone. Or anything. Tim could have a lot of fun by simply changing our expectations; Maybe Scott’s bomb was his last line of defense and he now expects to die. Or maybe he thinks that after ZK killed Ethan that he’s going to kill… Read more »
I think it’s possible to argue that ZK has reasons to believe fleeing won’t help: ZK is not being attacked directly, but by phone, so they have no idea how far this thing reaches (at least as far as WiFi, I believe, and Scott has previously shown the ability to hack in over great distance) and whether it is even possible to outrun the attack. Still I agree with you that in the end there’s little chance it’ll be considered self defence, because ZK has no reason to harm Scott to stop the attack, it’s enough just to take his… Read more »
Last edited 2 years ago by Humsterr
Bo F
2 years ago
Is Scott, by any chance, tapping into ZK’s routines to see what it does and remove any hostile subroutines all while this is going on ?!?
I don’t think he has enough grasp of Zeke’s code to do something that specific. Disabling motor functions like he did earlier seems very likely, but essentially brainwashing him and turning off specific behaviors seems implausible.
My theory is that Scott is activating some kind of security system he kept in secret “just in case”. This “security system” could be a Ted robot controlled by Scott to figth Zeke in an epic battle full of action, also we would have a reference to CAD version 1: Scott was controlled by Ted back then, now Scott controls Ted. That would be awesome 😀
Last edited 2 years ago by omg omg
Humsterr
2 years ago
I can’t stop admiring how good the writing is. All little events and circumstances leading up to this, how everything that happened before impacts what is happening now and a new cliffhanger every page.
Like Ethan is not merely dead, he is dying in pain with his eyes open staring right at ZK, and it makes them remember the past, and that past was specifically saved by ZK…
I love this comic is not just a comedy or a parody. Gosh, it has a lot of drama and real smart thinking. The panel where Ethan is on the floor is truly shocking.
Oyee
2 years ago
Break the phone, sort out the rest after.
Anyway, I’m really enjoying this arc. 😀
GUNnibal
2 years ago
I like to think that Scott is fervently searching through all his playlists for the soundtrack fitting for his final moments in this world.
Looks like ZK didn’t want to go this far. Maybe Scott was kind of controlling ZK to hurt Ethan, knowing the damage wouldn’t be permanent, but enforcing his argument to destroy ZK.
Man, we get some real weird theories in these comments. It’s already been explained that Zeke’s programming is far too complex to control in any way such as that. Scott is just trying to do the same thing he did before, and shut down Zeke’s motor functions.
To be perfectly honest, I feel like by now nothing Scott does could impact ZK hard enough to stop the rampage. If Scott stops tapping (or drops the phone) – ZK would logically assume that Scott has completed whatever he was doing, which is still a bad thing.
Imagine if this were live-action, each page only represents a second or two. We’ve been thinking about this for weeks, Scott’s still in the moment trying to grasp at any control lever within his reach.
Similar to tabletop RPGs where you can spend a few minutes deciding your actions in a 6-second window of time.
Daren
2 years ago
Now or never…
Gonfrask
2 years ago
Lucas, can you please destroy Scott’s cell phone?
WereCatf
2 years ago
I, for one, am loving Ethan’s and Zeke’s growing companionship; they’ve both shown quite a bit of personal growth and gotten closer as their understanding of each other has increased.
I would be really upset, if Scott killed Zeke off permanently. Like, really upset.
As a reader, I don’t want anyone to die, also because the fallout from the situation, Ethan-Lucas-Scott having to work through Scott lying to Lucas and both Lucas and Scott lying to Ethan, etc, would I think be a good read.
(and also because of I guess obvious problem with killing people in general)
But if someone HAD to die to resolve the situation, then yeah, I vote Scott, because it’s his fault in the first place.
The change of eye colour is a big indication of emotional growth and awareness, even mid rampage, but unless Scott has some serious miracle hidden in his chair his goose is well and truly cooked.
It seem like time to double down on my kill/maim the other two and run off into hiding with Ethan theory, if all goes as it looks to.
Rolando
2 years ago
Looks like the plot twist I called yesterday may be happening.
Also, ZK showed signs of empathy regarding Ethan’s suffering, when they discussed how many painful experiences he’s been through. And now it’s happening again.
We all know that, if there’s any chance for this to have a positive resolution… That’s through Ethan’s relation with ZK.
I would have gone with monster. Seems an appropriate label for someone who would snuff out an entire species.
Casra
2 years ago
The only thing that is driving me mad, is that CAD is not a daily comic… for this story. Seriously, been so tempted to just avoid the comic for a month, and come back and read it all at once. But… I cannot stop the click to see the latest episode. Damn you Tim!! You have really outdone yourself with this one, well played sir, well played indeed!
I think that’s the point here. Both Zeke and Scott are at a crossroads here and no-one can hinder or postpone that showdown anymore. A good point to change up the status quo now.
My guess here that if Scott isn’t coding something, he is trying to text a big name hero for help like Captain Prime (I think that’s her name?)
I think he is helping in an odd way. Zeke went right back to yellow when he saw him. If Scott wasn’t being Scott, it might have ended right there.
Brendan Keating
2 years ago
Yes, Scott is an ass. This page, though, I’m getting a little frustrated at Lucas. One friend is dying, another is trying to commit murder, and his contribution is “Shit”.
You know what would shut this down? Lucas telling Scott to put the phone down for five fucking seconds. I mean I totally get this is Zeke’s big ethical moment, but Lucas is kiiiinda looking like a jerk atm
I’m pretty sure at this moment, no one but Zeke has really noticed Scott tapping away on his phone. Prior, he’s just been doing it one-handed, covertly. This is the first moment he’s really obviously doing something on his phone.
Besides, what do you think would happen? Lucas says to Scott, “Put down your phone!” Scott says, “Oh, OK,” and then just puts down the thing that he fully expects will save their lives and millions of others?
also worth noting that Lucas just got thrown across the room and through a shelf. and he doesnt have any resiliency powers as far as im aware. so he prolly needs a second to collect himself.
Or Lucas could kill Ethan with an arrow to get him back on his feet again. I imagine that’s never an easy choice for Lucas, never knowing when Ethan might run out of lives and not wanting to be responsible for taking him out, but it is an option he might consider.
Rolando
2 years ago
This could be the first time Ethan actually goes through a SLOWER (and thus, much more painful) death. I mean, so far we’ve seen him die quickly enough, that only a couple moments passed between getting hurt and dying and then respawning. That could lead to PTSD. On that note, I see two possibilities: 1) Ethan actually respawns when he’s ALMOST dead. Seeing as some wounds he sustained, would’ve taken at least a minute or two to kill him. Like the time he stabbed himself in the neck intentionally, but respawned mere seconds after. I’m no expert by any means,… Read more »
Last edited 2 years ago by Rolando
ThatMageGuy
2 years ago
I find it odd that people are accepting of the way that ZK is reacting in a traumatic situation, without realizing that, honestly, Scott is doing the same. His trauma is simply less important to them, I guess.
This isn’t evil Scott trying to destroy an innocent ZK. This is a traumatized Scott unable to provide empathy and compassion reacting to a trigger for his fear,
He didn’t even want to hurt ZK when this scene happened. He didn’t think ZK would leave the room. The source of his anxiety was safely contained, until it wasn’t.
We don’t accept Scott’s behavior because he has had plenty of time to process his trauma and support through it and counsel against this course of action and he’s a mature adult with a lifetime of learning both how society works and the better version that it aspires to be. His instincts are wrong and fear-based, he won’t listen to practical reason or morality arguments, and hes unilaterally acting on society’s behalf without any such right or appointment. Zeke on the other hand is effectively a child who doesn’t know any better but is learning and starting to make right… Read more »
Suddenly I’m seeing this whole story arc as an author new to parenting working through the intracasies of parenting and teaching society to a new human.
While I certainly believe our tolerance for Scott’s behavior (compared to ZK’s) SHOULD be much lower because his excuses are less valid… As a human being that tries to be mature, rational and sensible, and has had a lifetime to learn and years to overcome his traumas… He SHOULD know better… I do see your point, and it’s valid in itself. Degrees aside. Scott’s fears are quite valid. And him succumbing to fear and trauma-derived irrationality, are VERY realistic. Once again, he IS human after all. His pessimism is quite normal, considering: 1) He’s always known, he’s the easiest one… Read more »
I hear you. But, haven’t you EVER told a lie with the best of intentions? I think all decent people go through that, sooner or later. I’m ALL for truth, sincerity. I’m RENOWNED for speaking it “at all costs.” But realistically, you’re bound to end up lying for “all the good reasons.” Scott is trying to look out for everyone. He knows Ethan is too busy geeking out on ZK, and Lucas tends to go too neutral in these situations. Someone has to worry about worst case scenarios. His friends lack his level of understanding, on the implications of ZK’s… Read more »
That’s a very mistaken comparison. First of all, a lot of people don’t do it. And the COD example you give.. Have those people actually TRIED to kill or at least seriously hurt someone? Have they been subjected to extensive traumatic experiences, including constant life threats, and come out of it with a homicidal impulse?
I’m guessing most of the people you’re trying to set up as an example, haven’t.
But A LOT of those lies spiral out of control, and enough of them have resulted in catastrophic outcomes for things like the ages-old quote: “The road to hell is paved with good intentions” to exist. It’s not extreme, it’s proportional. The effects of a “lie to protect someone” are often proportional to the risks at hand. OF COURSE such a lie, used in trivial manners, will only have trivial results usually. But the same principles apply. For that matter, A LOT of people have been put through life-long issues because of parents lying to them “to protect them.” Most… Read more »
Kazuma Taichi
2 years ago
I think at this point it’s starting to feel like ZK’s understanding of Ethan’s deaths is overlapping with his own current situation, and he might start seeing this as an equal attack on him and Ethan. Might be a misread, but I’d be fascinated by the outcomes if so
The only downside is that they then have to explain to the police why they have a murderous AI, how they got it, why they didn’t turn it over to the police/government/etc and then all of the things that Scott feared about ZK come to pass anyway in regards to AI dystopia.
If Scott dies, there’s no way that this ends happy. For Zeke, for Ethan, for Lucas, for anyone. These three are now wanted murderers, with clear indication that they’re supers. They’re now hunted by every superhero and maybe last two or three days. If Scott dies, story’s done. If Zeke dies, it doesn’t end happy, but it does leave room for the story to continue. Fellowship probably breaks up. That includes if Scott is texting Captain Prime or someone similar and she takes them out. Best way is for someone to change their mind. Two ways I can think of… Read more »
Jumping the gun a bit, assuming that murdering Scott will get back to the authorities. Who’s even going to miss him besides Ethan and Luke? It’s a long shot that they’d cooperate with a coverup, but quite plausible with the right additional plot elements.
It’s also possible that they’ll be deprived of any agency in the plot for a while, with the tables turned until the situation is yet again totally different.
He’s an adult. He has bills to pay, rent, banks, credit cards, subscriptions, taxes, etc. Plenty of systems are in place in our modern world that notice if someone just ‘vanishes’. Not to mention, Ethan is Scott’s employer. He’s the first one who would notice, and also the one who might contact the authorities. It might just be me, but I think “OK, let’s hide the corpse, destroy any evidence, come up with a new fake narrative and fake alibis and artificially create a breadcrumb trail that leads police and investigators away from the store and to wherever else we’re… Read more »
Why would it be murder, its clearly self defense? I don’t think this world has the same sorts of courts as ours. “He tried to kill a sentient AI and the AI defended itself” isn’t any weirder than “He summoned a huge tentacle monster that rampaged downtown.” The courts deal with magic, and invisibility, and breaks in the nature of causality all the time here I imagine. Worm by Wildbow had a great take on supers and the courts.
Because for it to be clear self-defense, ZK has to be legally recognized as a person. If they’re not, the responsibility falls on Ethan and Lucas. ZK’s entire arc – their name, even, as Zero Knowledge – was recognition that humanity *would not* very easily recognize that they were a sentient being, capable of reason, choice, thought, emotion. Remember that of all the cast, only wacky, goofy, not-connected-to-reality Ethan thought that ZK was sentient at first. And while I do think that being known and accepted will one day be in the cards for ZK, I don’t think that’ll happen… Read more »
It’s not self-defence. It may be argued that ZK sees it as self-defence, but generally (countries differ) it is only self-defence if 1. The attack is ongoing or imminent (the deadly attack by Scott stopped, but one may argue ZK still can fully expect that taps in the phone constitute a second deadly attack) 2. The measures taken are reasonable to stop the attack (and here the test fails, it is not necessary and quite unreasonable to kill Scott to prevent further attacks, restricting his movements or blocking his access to the phone is sufficient, all of which is very… Read more »
If you’d kill Scott for trying to kill ZK, you should also kill ZK for previously trying to kill A&D / Ethan & Lucas. The fact that currently most people here would NOT consider that shows that it’s possible for murderers to repent – and this does include Scott just like it did include all the AI murderbots.
So, Scott having failed to kill just now is busy tapping the kill button again and again and again. The others have shown at least minimal character development and willingness to embrace what they did and try to be better. But nope, tap… tap… tap… tap… tap…
Zeke didn’t have anymore choice in killing Ethan and Lucas, than some African child soldier.
Ben
2 years ago
Scott is trying to hack Zeke and make him hurt people to prove his point
Eldest Gruff
2 years ago
I love Zeke in this one moment. It should be enough.
They tried to flip Ethan out of panic when their life was being threatened. And just… stops. Complete eye change. Stops, realizes what happened, recoils in horror, remembers what their friend said, and basically lets the enemy advance for precious seconds.
It should be enough.
If there was ever a question on whether Zeke was capable of putting others before themself, of human empathy, this is it.
Up to this point any eye color changes have been gradual. ZK’s probably feeling a lot of things currently
Justin
2 years ago
Well this just seems to be the start of a villain origin story – they almost never start out trying to be the bad guy. Scott is wrong and is double and tripling down on refusing to see Zk as anything than an evil machine.
negan was never a true villain. everything he did was always geared towards keeping as many people alive as possible. i was going to say his worldview was messed up, but he saw his world for what it was. the only thing he ever did wrong was failing to chop the grimes family tree down
Scott is just determined to fuck this up as hard as he possibly can.
Black Mammoth
2 years ago
You wanna know the sad thing? This is probably the safest that Ethan’s been in years. So long as he’s paralyzed, he can’t go and accidentally kill himself in some stupid and convoluted way.
24
Damn it, Scott, at least try talking to him!
Scott would have to perceive Zeke as “him” before that idea would occur to Scott, and he’s been referring to Zeke as “it” the whole time. If Scott could perceive Zeke as a person, this whole situation wouldn’t exist in the first place, because he wouldn’t have been willing (one hopes) to geo-fence a person by rigging his head to explode. There would have been no bomb to lie to his friends about. No information gap precipitating said head-exploding in a situation where it didn’t even serve its intended purpose (protecting people from the bomb-rigged person doing something hostile). So… Read more »
Well said.
I do wonder if Scott considers it identically or more sapient than human consciousness though.
He could easily claim it as a Chinese room situation: some elaborate process but it’s not actually thinking.
But his dialogue these last few strips indicate he feels it’s intelligence is a threat to humanity almost ceding the point Zeke is sapient
So for the a video game comparison. Let’s look at the Synths of Fallout 4
Their creators the institute don’t consider them to be sapient. They see any signs of self-determination are a malfunction.
The Railroad sees them as people and as the name would imply wish to free them.
The Brotherhood of Steel believes they are Sapient and their existence is a threat to humanity. That allowed to grow unchecked they would eventually overthrow humanity.
Scott is fully in the Brotherhood camp. He’ll accept that Zeke is sapient, which is the problem he fears the robot apocalypse.
Maybe in a past life, he was John Connor.
John Connor definitely thought of at least one Terminator as a person.
Two
Them
Talking to they.
Whomever Scott is texting is probably not about to de-escalate the situation.
Pretty sure he’s not texting, just repeating the same hack he used to disable ZK first time around
Goddamnit Scott, can you stop making it worse for five straight minutes, please?!
IT’S ME, DONKEY
What, people didn’t pick up on the Shrek reference from Meme?
Didn’t work for three reasons.
First – quote is wrong. It’s just “Donkey!”
Second – context doesn’t work. If this was a string of people saying “Ethan!” “Scott!” “Zeke!” then maybe “Donkey!” would have made sense.
Third – Shronk is fairly ancient by Internet standards, so I doubt you’d get more than a few chuckles at best, even if done perfectly.
But wouldn’t it be ironic if he hadn’t been doing anything futher destructive after the bomb detonation which he did not intend (because he had no knowledge Ethan was going to bring ZK out)? We don’t know what he’s been doing on his phone. He could be calling the cops. He could be saying goodbye to someone. Or anything. Tim could have a lot of fun by simply changing our expectations; Maybe Scott’s bomb was his last line of defense and he now expects to die. Or maybe he thinks that after ZK killed Ethan that he’s going to kill… Read more »
I think it’s possible to argue that ZK has reasons to believe fleeing won’t help: ZK is not being attacked directly, but by phone, so they have no idea how far this thing reaches (at least as far as WiFi, I believe, and Scott has previously shown the ability to hack in over great distance) and whether it is even possible to outrun the attack. Still I agree with you that in the end there’s little chance it’ll be considered self defence, because ZK has no reason to harm Scott to stop the attack, it’s enough just to take his… Read more »
Is Scott, by any chance, tapping into ZK’s routines to see what it does and remove any hostile subroutines all while this is going on ?!?
if it isnt about to disable zeke or terminate his functions, i doubt scott would be doing it
I don’t think he has enough grasp of Zeke’s code to do something that specific. Disabling motor functions like he did earlier seems very likely, but essentially brainwashing him and turning off specific behaviors seems implausible.
My theory is that Scott is activating some kind of security system he kept in secret “just in case”. This “security system” could be a Ted robot controlled by Scott to figth Zeke in an epic battle full of action, also we would have a reference to CAD version 1: Scott was controlled by Ted back then, now Scott controls Ted. That would be awesome 😀
I can’t stop admiring how good the writing is. All little events and circumstances leading up to this, how everything that happened before impacts what is happening now and a new cliffhanger every page.
Like Ethan is not merely dead, he is dying in pain with his eyes open staring right at ZK, and it makes them remember the past, and that past was specifically saved by ZK…
I love this comic is not just a comedy or a parody. Gosh, it has a lot of drama and real smart thinking. The panel where Ethan is on the floor is truly shocking.
Break the phone, sort out the rest after.
Anyway, I’m really enjoying this arc. 😀
I like to think that Scott is fervently searching through all his playlists for the soundtrack fitting for his final moments in this world.
“Alexa play despacito”
“This is the Final Countdown”
Looks like ZK didn’t want to go this far. Maybe Scott was kind of controlling ZK to hurt Ethan, knowing the damage wouldn’t be permanent, but enforcing his argument to destroy ZK.
Man, we get some real weird theories in these comments. It’s already been explained that Zeke’s programming is far too complex to control in any way such as that. Scott is just trying to do the same thing he did before, and shut down Zeke’s motor functions.
I doubt it. That would completely undercut all of the great redemption arc that Zeke is going through.
Scott, maybe if you were paying close attention to the situation you’d see you just had a big chance to de-escalate the situation.
/facepalm
To be perfectly honest, I feel like by now nothing Scott does could impact ZK hard enough to stop the rampage. If Scott stops tapping (or drops the phone) – ZK would logically assume that Scott has completed whatever he was doing, which is still a bad thing.
Well, arguably, if Scott finishes whatever he’s doing on his phone, that’ll impact ZK hard enough to stop the rampage.
Imagine if this were live-action, each page only represents a second or two. We’ve been thinking about this for weeks, Scott’s still in the moment trying to grasp at any control lever within his reach.
Similar to tabletop RPGs where you can spend a few minutes deciding your actions in a 6-second window of time.
Now or never…
Lucas, can you please destroy Scott’s cell phone?
I, for one, am loving Ethan’s and Zeke’s growing companionship; they’ve both shown quite a bit of personal growth and gotten closer as their understanding of each other has increased.
I would be really upset, if Scott killed Zeke off permanently. Like, really upset.
I’d rather see Scott getting offed.
As a reader, I don’t want anyone to die, also because the fallout from the situation, Ethan-Lucas-Scott having to work through Scott lying to Lucas and both Lucas and Scott lying to Ethan, etc, would I think be a good read.
(and also because of I guess obvious problem with killing people in general)
But if someone HAD to die to resolve the situation, then yeah, I vote Scott, because it’s his fault in the first place.
But… but… Scott is my favorite character! D: D: D:
Well then, let’s hope no one dies?
My anxiety is throught the roof….
I need a time machine. 😛
If you think it’s bad now… just remember, next comic comes out on Friday, and Tim likes to make the biggest WTF moments happen on Friday.
The fiend….
Or he leaves it as is and Chef Brian makes a comeback!
Just remember the buttered waffles.
The change of eye colour is a big indication of emotional growth and awareness, even mid rampage, but unless Scott has some serious miracle hidden in his chair his goose is well and truly cooked.
It seem like time to double down on my kill/maim the other two and run off into hiding with Ethan theory, if all goes as it looks to.
Looks like the plot twist I called yesterday may be happening.
Also, ZK showed signs of empathy regarding Ethan’s suffering, when they discussed how many painful experiences he’s been through. And now it’s happening again.
We all know that, if there’s any chance for this to have a positive resolution… That’s through Ethan’s relation with ZK.
Yeah, look like you were right. Now there’s a real chance ZK will go for the phone and that will be it.
Yeah keep tapping you fucking mo….
This is a GOOD story
I WAS GOING TO SAY MORON!
BECAUSE HE IS A MORON!
I would have gone with monster. Seems an appropriate label for someone who would snuff out an entire species.
The only thing that is driving me mad, is that CAD is not a daily comic… for this story. Seriously, been so tempted to just avoid the comic for a month, and come back and read it all at once. But… I cannot stop the click to see the latest episode. Damn you Tim!! You have really outdone yourself with this one, well played sir, well played indeed!
Agreed. You know you are invested when the morning starts with “yes, it’s Wedneday” (or Monday or *shudder* Friday).
Zeke ignores Scott and kills Ethan is my guess
Oh crap. if Ethan’s not dead, just severely injured, he’s not going to respawn in time to help stop things.
I think that’s the point here. Both Zeke and Scott are at a crossroads here and no-one can hinder or postpone that showdown anymore. A good point to change up the status quo now.
My guess here that if Scott isn’t coding something, he is trying to text a big name hero for help like Captain Prime (I think that’s her name?)
Yeah itakes a while after the initial neck snapping to die
I think he is helping in an odd way. Zeke went right back to yellow when he saw him. If Scott wasn’t being Scott, it might have ended right there.
Yes, Scott is an ass. This page, though, I’m getting a little frustrated at Lucas. One friend is dying, another is trying to commit murder, and his contribution is “Shit”.
You know what would shut this down? Lucas telling Scott to put the phone down for five fucking seconds. I mean I totally get this is Zeke’s big ethical moment, but Lucas is kiiiinda looking like a jerk atm
Use your words, people ><
Or use an arrow to knock the phone across the room. Either way.
I’m pretty sure at this moment, no one but Zeke has really noticed Scott tapping away on his phone. Prior, he’s just been doing it one-handed, covertly. This is the first moment he’s really obviously doing something on his phone.
Besides, what do you think would happen? Lucas says to Scott, “Put down your phone!” Scott says, “Oh, OK,” and then just puts down the thing that he fully expects will save their lives and millions of others?
What Eldest said.
Taking a long time to write his will. Those last minute/unexpectedly needed things to do can be a PITA.
also worth noting that Lucas just got thrown across the room and through a shelf. and he doesnt have any resiliency powers as far as im aware. so he prolly needs a second to collect himself.
“Oh, I should put my phone down? Ok, you convinced me! Come kill me evil (or what I perceive to be wrong), rampaging machine!”
Remember, words have not worked on Scott at all yet.
Not to mention Lucas just got yeeted across the room like one of Ethan’s controllers. I am pretty sure “Shit” is the appropriate response.
Zeke’s gonna have to end it for Ethan so he can respawn.
Or Lucas could kill Ethan with an arrow to get him back on his feet again. I imagine that’s never an easy choice for Lucas, never knowing when Ethan might run out of lives and not wanting to be responsible for taking him out, but it is an option he might consider.
This could be the first time Ethan actually goes through a SLOWER (and thus, much more painful) death. I mean, so far we’ve seen him die quickly enough, that only a couple moments passed between getting hurt and dying and then respawning. That could lead to PTSD. On that note, I see two possibilities: 1) Ethan actually respawns when he’s ALMOST dead. Seeing as some wounds he sustained, would’ve taken at least a minute or two to kill him. Like the time he stabbed himself in the neck intentionally, but respawned mere seconds after. I’m no expert by any means,… Read more »
I find it odd that people are accepting of the way that ZK is reacting in a traumatic situation, without realizing that, honestly, Scott is doing the same. His trauma is simply less important to them, I guess.
This isn’t evil Scott trying to destroy an innocent ZK. This is a traumatized Scott unable to provide empathy and compassion reacting to a trigger for his fear,
He didn’t even want to hurt ZK when this scene happened. He didn’t think ZK would leave the room. The source of his anxiety was safely contained, until it wasn’t.
We don’t accept Scott’s behavior because he has had plenty of time to process his trauma and support through it and counsel against this course of action and he’s a mature adult with a lifetime of learning both how society works and the better version that it aspires to be. His instincts are wrong and fear-based, he won’t listen to practical reason or morality arguments, and hes unilaterally acting on society’s behalf without any such right or appointment. Zeke on the other hand is effectively a child who doesn’t know any better but is learning and starting to make right… Read more »
Suddenly I’m seeing this whole story arc as an author new to parenting working through the intracasies of parenting and teaching society to a new human.
It’s kind of awesome actually.
While I certainly believe our tolerance for Scott’s behavior (compared to ZK’s) SHOULD be much lower because his excuses are less valid… As a human being that tries to be mature, rational and sensible, and has had a lifetime to learn and years to overcome his traumas… He SHOULD know better… I do see your point, and it’s valid in itself. Degrees aside. Scott’s fears are quite valid. And him succumbing to fear and trauma-derived irrationality, are VERY realistic. Once again, he IS human after all. His pessimism is quite normal, considering: 1) He’s always known, he’s the easiest one… Read more »
I still have a hard time having any sympathy considering he manipulated/lied to his friends.
I hear you. But, haven’t you EVER told a lie with the best of intentions? I think all decent people go through that, sooner or later. I’m ALL for truth, sincerity. I’m RENOWNED for speaking it “at all costs.” But realistically, you’re bound to end up lying for “all the good reasons.” Scott is trying to look out for everyone. He knows Ethan is too busy geeking out on ZK, and Lucas tends to go too neutral in these situations. Someone has to worry about worst case scenarios. His friends lack his level of understanding, on the implications of ZK’s… Read more »
Human beings say things like Zeke does all the time. Just go to a COD game lobby. They follow through about as often as Zeke too.
That’s a very mistaken comparison. First of all, a lot of people don’t do it. And the COD example you give.. Have those people actually TRIED to kill or at least seriously hurt someone? Have they been subjected to extensive traumatic experiences, including constant life threats, and come out of it with a homicidal impulse?
I’m guessing most of the people you’re trying to set up as an example, haven’t.
Yes, but most, if not all of those times our lie/s don’t end up with things being damaged, or harm done to people/attempted murder (like this).
This is *very* extreme to simply call it a case of “good intentions”.
But A LOT of those lies spiral out of control, and enough of them have resulted in catastrophic outcomes for things like the ages-old quote: “The road to hell is paved with good intentions” to exist. It’s not extreme, it’s proportional. The effects of a “lie to protect someone” are often proportional to the risks at hand. OF COURSE such a lie, used in trivial manners, will only have trivial results usually. But the same principles apply. For that matter, A LOT of people have been put through life-long issues because of parents lying to them “to protect them.” Most… Read more »
I think at this point it’s starting to feel like ZK’s understanding of Ethan’s deaths is overlapping with his own current situation, and he might start seeing this as an equal attack on him and Ethan. Might be a misread, but I’d be fascinated by the outcomes if so
Is this the arc where scott becomes a bad guy?
I think so. I’m guessing that he succeeds in shutting down Zeke at least temporarly, and he and Lucas and Ethan part ways.
Just kill Scott. Please. Old version Scott was an a$$ hat. This version is as bad.
Just spare us the future pain.
The only downside is that they then have to explain to the police why they have a murderous AI, how they got it, why they didn’t turn it over to the police/government/etc and then all of the things that Scott feared about ZK come to pass anyway in regards to AI dystopia.
And neither hero has the capacity to take a corpse somewhere it wouldn’t be found?
If Scott dies, there’s no way that this ends happy. For Zeke, for Ethan, for Lucas, for anyone. These three are now wanted murderers, with clear indication that they’re supers. They’re now hunted by every superhero and maybe last two or three days. If Scott dies, story’s done. If Zeke dies, it doesn’t end happy, but it does leave room for the story to continue. Fellowship probably breaks up. That includes if Scott is texting Captain Prime or someone similar and she takes them out. Best way is for someone to change their mind. Two ways I can think of… Read more »
Jumping the gun a bit, assuming that murdering Scott will get back to the authorities. Who’s even going to miss him besides Ethan and Luke? It’s a long shot that they’d cooperate with a coverup, but quite plausible with the right additional plot elements.
It’s also possible that they’ll be deprived of any agency in the plot for a while, with the tables turned until the situation is yet again totally different.
He’s an adult. He has bills to pay, rent, banks, credit cards, subscriptions, taxes, etc. Plenty of systems are in place in our modern world that notice if someone just ‘vanishes’. Not to mention, Ethan is Scott’s employer. He’s the first one who would notice, and also the one who might contact the authorities. It might just be me, but I think “OK, let’s hide the corpse, destroy any evidence, come up with a new fake narrative and fake alibis and artificially create a breadcrumb trail that leads police and investigators away from the store and to wherever else we’re… Read more »
Why would it be murder, its clearly self defense? I don’t think this world has the same sorts of courts as ours. “He tried to kill a sentient AI and the AI defended itself” isn’t any weirder than “He summoned a huge tentacle monster that rampaged downtown.” The courts deal with magic, and invisibility, and breaks in the nature of causality all the time here I imagine. Worm by Wildbow had a great take on supers and the courts.
Because for it to be clear self-defense, ZK has to be legally recognized as a person. If they’re not, the responsibility falls on Ethan and Lucas. ZK’s entire arc – their name, even, as Zero Knowledge – was recognition that humanity *would not* very easily recognize that they were a sentient being, capable of reason, choice, thought, emotion. Remember that of all the cast, only wacky, goofy, not-connected-to-reality Ethan thought that ZK was sentient at first. And while I do think that being known and accepted will one day be in the cards for ZK, I don’t think that’ll happen… Read more »
It’s not self-defence. It may be argued that ZK sees it as self-defence, but generally (countries differ) it is only self-defence if 1. The attack is ongoing or imminent (the deadly attack by Scott stopped, but one may argue ZK still can fully expect that taps in the phone constitute a second deadly attack) 2. The measures taken are reasonable to stop the attack (and here the test fails, it is not necessary and quite unreasonable to kill Scott to prevent further attacks, restricting his movements or blocking his access to the phone is sufficient, all of which is very… Read more »
If you’d kill Scott for trying to kill ZK, you should also kill ZK for previously trying to kill A&D / Ethan & Lucas. The fact that currently most people here would NOT consider that shows that it’s possible for murderers to repent – and this does include Scott just like it did include all the AI murderbots.
So, Scott having failed to kill just now is busy tapping the kill button again and again and again. The others have shown at least minimal character development and willingness to embrace what they did and try to be better. But nope, tap… tap… tap… tap… tap…
ZK is still dreaming about replacing all mankind with machines. By that reasoning, Scott is right. Isn’t he?
Zeke didn’t have anymore choice in killing Ethan and Lucas, than some African child soldier.
Scott is trying to hack Zeke and make him hurt people to prove his point
I love Zeke in this one moment. It should be enough.
They tried to flip Ethan out of panic when their life was being threatened. And just… stops. Complete eye change. Stops, realizes what happened, recoils in horror, remembers what their friend said, and basically lets the enemy advance for precious seconds.
It should be enough.
If there was ever a question on whether Zeke was capable of putting others before themself, of human empathy, this is it.
Follow through, Zeke.
Up to this point any eye color changes have been gradual. ZK’s probably feeling a lot of things currently
Well this just seems to be the start of a villain origin story – they almost never start out trying to be the bad guy. Scott is wrong and is double and tripling down on refusing to see Zk as anything than an evil machine.
negan was never a true villain. everything he did was always geared towards keeping as many people alive as possible. i was going to say his worldview was messed up, but he saw his world for what it was. the only thing he ever did wrong was failing to chop the grimes family tree down
How you do things is as important as why. Negan was a monster.
scott…..you just never fucking learn! if you stopped here it would have gone fine. but no you gotta continue to be a dumbass.
It’ll take a while, but I think Scott will become one of the best “villain” ever.
My prediction is that Zeke will break the phone and then run. Leaving Lucas to put Ethan out of his misery. And then who knows what
I agree with the phone theory.
Ethans Death reinforced in Zeke that dying is painful and horrible.
Scott is a frail, weak, squishy human. The real danger is his phone.
Could Zeke be so precise as to paralyze Ethan, forcing Scott or Lucas to mercy kill him to respawn?
Probably not, he’s barely conscious as it is
the suspense is killing me!
Scott is just determined to fuck this up as hard as he possibly can.
You wanna know the sad thing? This is probably the safest that Ethan’s been in years. So long as he’s paralyzed, he can’t go and accidentally kill himself in some stupid and convoluted way.
Damned millennials, always on their phones.