First and foremost, I wish we could overhaul the current tipping construct in general. I don’t think it should be used as a way for employers to avoid paying their staff a decent wage, and there are a lot of studies and articles on the various imbalances/discriminations the entire practice creates.
However, it is ingrained in our society at the moment, and certain professions rely on it. I used to be a waiter and I remember what it’s like, so generally I’m an across-the-board 20% tipper in restaurants. Until we can all agree to change the system, I’m fine with participating in the practice where appropriate.
But I feel like “where appropriate” is starting to get a little blurred.
Since the pandemic started, I have ordered food for pickup from local restaurants far more than I ever did before, and drastically more than I’ve done any “dining in” in the past two years. And more and more on these apps they use, I notice during checkout I’m being asked to assign a tip when placing the order, before any service has taken place. (To be clear, we are not talking about delivery drivers, I am aware tips are entered prior to the order on those apps, and can often be adjusted after the fact based on performance.)
In a lot of these instances, I don’t feel like a tip is warranted; I’m paying for the food, and I’m going to pick it up. Somebody at the restaurant (most likely a host, being paid an hourly wage, not waitstaff-pay) stands behind the counter and hands me the food, sure. For that thirty second interaction, should I be expected to offer the same 20% tip as a waiter who took care of me through sixty-minutes of dinner/dessert and coffee? My thought is no (though I’m open to hearing arguments to the contrary).
But at the same time, I don’t love the idea of telegraphing “NO TIP” way ahead of time when these people are about to handle my food, either. Rule number one, don’t piss off the people in charge of something you want to eat, right? Now, this is most certainly my anxiety at play; deep down I don’t really believe people fucking with food because they didn’t get a pre-tip on the app is something I need to be worried about. Buuuut… it still doesn’t feel great. It starts to feel more like safe passage for my food is being held ransom at that point.
I’d love to hear others thoughts on this, especially anyone working on foodservice where these apps are used. Where do these pre-tips go to? Does the restaurant just keep them (which would be even worse)? Does it get split amongst everyone? The person who happened to be at the counter to hand me my food?
tipping should be extra money to be added on a living wage, not something that you necessarily need or you’ll die starving and homeless
and before anyone goes “but waiters and food delivery peeps aren’t as hard working as others so they don’t deserve a living wage”
you are a piece of shit if you think so, they’re NEEDED them for the job they’re doing so they also NEED to have an actual pay at the end of the day/week/month/whatever
Generally yes, but there are some places where tips are so abundant that a living wage isn’t really required. Example for some bar staff: I had a classmate who worked in a busy bar. His take home pay was reasonable (he did have to have the quals and be good at his job and he did have to follow responsible consumption rules) but his tips could easily double that on a good night. Now, some restaurants share tips (which is both good and bad – good because it is a team that takes the order, cleans the place up, makes… Read more »
“Generally yes, but there are some places where tips are so abundant that a living wage isn’t really required.”
Stopped reading your wall of text right there and slammed the dislike button. Every job deserves a living wage.
When you stop reading the instant something melts your emotional snowflake, you have no right to criticize anything. You are intellectually lazy and irrationally emotional. If that didn’t trigger you enough to smash the dislike button in tears and start rage-spewing at your screen, allow me to enlighten you. Every job DOES NOT deserve a living wage. This is demonstrably untrue socialist sloganeering, not objective reality. Let me give you some concrete examples: Jobs which are meant is part-time, casual, supplemental work. (casual freelance writing, casual consulting, part time aid work, retired Wal-Mart greeters who just want to get out… Read more »
When your thesis is fundamentally flawed, there is no need to read supporting arguments.
theres a fundamental flaw with your logic of “not every job deserves to be livable”. you end up losing your argument about casualness asap. it becomes a matter of needing multiple jobs to afford life. that alone means you need jobs who dont conflict with each other and still give you time to live a healthy life. so yes, there are jobs that deserve better pay then others. but NO every job DOES deserve a liveable wage because its additive. having a second job should be a choice you do for MORE not a demand because youre forced to do… Read more »
If I absolutely had to make a list of jobs that do not have to earn a living wage. They would be jobs intended for school age children. A paper route. Baby sitting. But because they are not intended to be careers. They are supposed to be something extra for pocket money. And those in them are not supposed to be paying rent. If I had to make a guess. The problem is many jobs that were initially just part time work for kids have become full jobs. Cashier at fast food places was a teen job. Now it is… Read more »
I read the whole thing. I’m glad the rest of these folk didn’t waste their time.
I love how most of your examples… don’t even involve wages. If you are a freelance, you aren’t an employee, you don’t have wages, you have fees, that you decide yourself. If you run a YouTube channel, you don’t have wages, you have advertisement money payment, and possibly donations, through Patreon or another similar system. Those high-school “jobs” are just informal arrangements rather than actual jobs with a contract, are they? Also big lol at the idea that corporate board members with stock actions aren’t being paid a living wage. Every full-time job deserve a living wage, and part-time jobs… Read more »
I hope you will one day work in a place that doesn’t pay you any wage at all and forces you to live on tips alone. 😉 That would be the perfect working place for you, since you don’t work as hard anyway, so you don’t deserve to life a comfortable life.
The only – ONLY – examples I will agree with you on is “YouTube channel” and “freelance writer,” and that’s only because it’s not a job. It doesn’t fit with “wages are performance based out of necessity” because it’s not a wage. These are self-employed people, creating something for others to potentially buy, or give a share of the advertising revenue from. They take the risk. If an employer wants to hire someone else to do a thing, regularly, giving their time, then the person needs to be compensated for that time. And that compensation should be enough that, if… Read more »
Actually, for some people, running a Youtube channel actually IS their job. I was just watching a video where one of the Youtubers was talking about how Youtube changes to how videos are pritoitized to viewers is harming his business, for which he actually has multiple full time employees.
You forget a key issue. We live in a sociopathic society that would steal your kidney to use as a step-stool to put one item on a shelf if they think it would reach a quarterly goal. What happens is you have businesses that are almost entirely part-time, just to save the cents. And how do they get away with it? Overall gains is worth more than total lawsuits incurred, and highly effective intimidation tactics to silence employees.
When your opening sentence begins with a logical fallacy, I stop reading your wall o’ words. (ad hominem)
Sometimes those supplemental jobs are all people can find, but they still need enough income to pay the bills. It isn’t a question of “Git Gud Newb.” It’s a dilemma of “So sorry, you don’t have a degree… not enough experience…. “overqualified”…”
Don’t be a jerk, it’s not Socialism. It’s called being a decent employer. Sometimes people don’t have the start-up funds to go to college, and getting experience is a double-edged sword. You need it to get work, but can’t get it because you don’t have a job.
Everyone deserves to make enough to make a living. But as I said, I knew bartenders that cleared enough to make far beyond any other staff members made by a lot on any given night. Not every place evenly distributes tips and in some places, the bartenders could make twice their salary in tips and their salaries weren’t horrid for the time. The waitstaff had horrid salaries (still do) and they do need to be paid more because in places like the example I use, their own tips plus the amount they were paid wasn’t a living wage. But for… Read more »
The funniest part of you ragequitting his comment is that he was arguing against wage disparity and the necessity of tips. He was saying that wait staff should not have to require tips for a living wage……
Your attitude is what is wrong with society today. You’re not interested in talking to or debating with people – you take 3 seconds to form your opinion and fight for it to the death, logic be damned.
glory to your buddy able to rake in the cash. meanwhile the rest of the US lives with the fact their wages are cut in half due to the ability to get tips at all. my place doesnt accept tips and thus doesnt cut our pay. people try to tip us all the time, we just tell them its appreciated but we cant take it. if they push then we are allowed to take it because then its not a tip but a gift. wonders how that simple change dodges the federal minimum wage laws.
I worked at a regional branch of a major retail store (starts with a “W”). The location I worked at was a major tourist hotspot with some very rich entertainers/restaurant owners. I was offered a tip once when I worked there and it was pushed, and somewhat large, I think $50 for helping a pizzaria owner with their supplies. When these people gift you money, I don’t care what the management says, you accept. Most of them know how terrible retail is and how equally terrible the pay is. And tips for the help are exceedingly rare because the “whales”… Read more »
oh 300 a month is plenty…when the husband, wife, son, daughter, and dog are all working it. but hey they want the “nuclear family” to be supported, so gotta push everyone to work!
If me, my wife, my 14 year old daughter, and both disabled 80+ dependents were taking in $300/mo, all that would cover is our grocery bill (and that’s careful shopping at that) and about one tank of gas. No shelter, no hydro, no anything else. Of course, it is CAD$ so if I converted at about $1.30 CAD to $1 USD, and 300/head USD… that would add about another $500. That’d be enough to pay the car insurance (to get the elders to medical trips because they can’t take conventinal taxis), cover the hydro, and maybe the phone… and it’d… Read more »
I would not want anyone to not be able to get by. I would not want anyone to do a full time job at a net compensation level that wasn’t enough to get by one for some sensible level of ‘getting by’. I’ve lived on both ends of the wage continuum – at one point I was making equivalent to about $110K/year and now $0 due to illness and three crippled dependents. When I was in school, I was in the reserves. I got $21 for a half-day (anything up to 6 hours) and $42 for a full day (6+… Read more »
In a sentence, everything before the but is what the writer believes to be bullshit needed not to be insulted for what follows.
This is barely English, and is also bullshit. By your own assertion, your statement is bullshit you don’t believe given your placement of “but” in the sentence. I know. Logic hurts.
Dude, my English might not be top notch, I’ll readily concede that, but your lack of understanding of a difference between a false syllogism (A is true, but I anecdotally know that it is not always the case, A and B cannot be true at the same time, so A is false) and a single statement (“Whatever follows X is bullshit”) where there are not two separate parts, or a premise and a conclusion, is embarrassing, in particular because English, I guess, IS your first language. As a matter of fact, the first is internally flawed and the conclusion intrinsically… Read more »
Speaking of which, why I’m not surprised the trump card in a discussion by someone who went directly for the “snowflake” “socialist sloganeering” and “fantasy land” terms turns out to be an ad hominem about someone’s not perfect use of English on a board where there must be thousands of ESLs?
So very predictable. And lazy.
Holy crap, agree with Josh above.
Props for beginning with “Dude, my English might not be top notch” and ending with, “but there is no logical internal flaw, nor two terms of the proposition in which the first is contradicted by the second through the ‘but’.”
Few times I’ve literally laughed out loud from the internet. Solid.
I think… I think you’re my hero GCo.
Thank you. Thank you so much for schooling a moron with bad faith arguments. That burn will live on in my memories and the tales I’ll tell.
That critic’s first language probably is English but I don’t think he can read your post XD
“In *some* instances, the tip model actually provides a living wage.”
Y’all need to go outside more often.
Maybe, but the wage should be a living wage.
That’s why it’s called a wage.
I didn’t say it was often or the norm. But it does happen that some people working with a lot of tipping have ‘a living wage’ to the extent anyone does. I’m just saying a blanket solution of doing away with tips and going with a living wage would actually be a negative consequence for some workers. I agree everyone should manage to have enough money coming in to get by – that’s the only decent and moral position. I’m not convinced most current definitions of ‘living wage’ may be enough. But forcing some folk onto a ‘living wage with… Read more »
I hate discussing this topic or wages for service industries in general because everyone’s kneejerk reaction is “yes pay them more!” and any sort of nuance or pointing out that automatic attitude may cause problems itself will trigger a large amounts of downvotes from people who read the first sentence, react, and don’t actually consider what is actually being said. To your point, you are correct there are some people/places where a living wage isn’t “necessary” because it is subsidized by abundant tipping; this is factually accurate and the entire reason why businesses are allowed to pay under minimum wage.… Read more »
Everyone needs to have some decent minimum of shelter, food and necessities. To me, that’s a human right.
Anything that sounded otherwise wasn’t meant to.
This occupation has probably left me burnt out. I should have been more careful about how I expressed myself.
So basically, he should pay his employer to be able to work there and only live from tips alone, right? 🙂
Depends how much the tips are, doesn’t it? Some particularly exclusive places, the tips are literally thousands of dollars per night!
Japan has a no tipping culture in fact to tip is to cause offence as your implying they don’t offer good service unless given a bribe.
It’s one of many reasons why I love the country.
What is the purpose of a business?
The purpose of a business is to provide the goods the client paid for.
Paying your employees, who do so a wage they can live with, without having to rely on the goodwill of strangers, is just basic human decency.
Everyone who thinks the purpose of a business is generating weath for the owner has capitalism wrong.
And everyone who thinks maximizing profits by exploiting employees is okay, is an evil beeing i won’t even call human anymore.
I might argue that they have capitalism /right/ – but are wrong about whether it functions adequately in service of the common citizen! But absolutely agree that the picture you paint really /should/ be a basic social norm.
I feel your definition is very inaccurate. A business exists to create trade. Whether it is a material good or services. The exchange of currency is the means of doing this business. And the business wishes to create a profit. The purpose of profit is so the business owner/operator may live. Funds beyond that can be used to expand the business and perhaps employ others. Having employees is not automatically baked in to the label business. Morally the business should pay a living wage to the employee(s) as part of the overhead. But having and paying employees is not the… Read more »
My town: “Food service should be for teenagers and people looking for part time work. You shouldn’t be able to survive off of flipping burgers and bussing tables.”
Also my town: “I had to wait a half hour for food! i GuEsS nO oNe wAnTs tO wOrK aNyMoRe!”
Also my town:
“We expect restaurants to be open at all hours, like during school and overnight!”
I totally feel this. I’m a taxi driver, and the vast majority of my income comes from tipping. And a vast majority of people unfortunately don’t tip. And I know it’s not me, because I usually get *really* decent tips during the times I do. In fact, many people think taxi drivers get paid hourly… nope! We get paid a percentage of what’s on the meter (40% in my case). Although I don’t pay for gas or the car maintenance, with 40% – particularly during pandemic restrictions – you’ll be lucky if you can make a living wage, especially because… Read more »
As someone that has worked for tips for over 30 years I have to say you have no idea what you ask for. “The road to hell is paved with good intentions”. What you think is a living wage and what I make is very different… by a mile. If you go by the general $15 per hour that everybody banters around than I would be losing about a quarter of my pay. And I am not even close to making what wait staff in bars and high end eating establishments make. The only thing I would ask for is… Read more »
This tipping addition in the ordering apps is once again USA based companies assuming the rest of the world works in the same manner. I live in a EU-based country where tipping is actually not part of the culture, and everything is supposed to be included in the bill for the food or service. We do have tipping, but it’s usually a very small amount (which you can’t do, because the amounts start too high in the app), and signifies that you got an exceptional service, for regular service, people don’t tip. Your boss should pay you, not the customer… Read more »
The EU has often had good approaches to things that North America has struggled with IME.
It is odd that our mechanic works for a set rate but he could do a good or bad job and we wouldn’t augment or reduce his price because of that. We might complain or never go there again, but he got paid for his time and parts. So why does the model not make sense everywhere? Or perhaps it makes no sense anywhere?
I’m a 15-25% tipper when dining in, but I usually do a flat $1 for to-go. Is it what’s right or warranted? I don’t know, but I feel like it makes sense in most cases because I’m not interacting with the waitstaff who are part of this terrible system that we’re all trapped in (seriously, why aren’t we enforcing minimum wage for them yet?), as well as that the little interaction we share is fixed in duration and stripped of a need for a human touch. That said, I do bump up my tip when the staff have done something… Read more »
Minimum wage IS enforced for wait staff. If their wage+tips does not equal minimum wage, the restaurant has to make up the difference.
Would that not vary by province or state?
Yes the minimum wage varies by state. The problem is that minimum wage generally isn’t a living wage so you need far more in tips than is needed to cover the minimum wage gap laws.
Also worth bearing in mind (former waitstaff here, and in a country with even tighter salary rules) that “must by law” and “actually does” are not necessarily the same. And nor are “can be fined or closed down if anomalies are reported” and “staff aren’t terrified to report regardless”.
The business being closed doesn’t give you a paycheck…
Minimum wage is not supposed to be a “living wage.” If you’re a full blown adult trying to support yourself on minimum wage, you did something wrong in your life.
Minimum wage is meant to be the baseline for someone who has never worked before/has no skills. Like a high school student. Artificially increasing the minimum has only led to loss of those jobs, and made it extremely difficult for people with no experience to GET experience.
And that’s the problem with this society right there. Everyone should make a living wage regardless of what their age/life is. A living wage is required to live, so every business should be paying it. And don’t tell me that they would go out of business, they have plenty of money. Their CEOs make over 350 times what the workers do and they do all the work. Living wage should be a right, not a privilege.
Oh and about “no skills”. Most fast food restaurants are harder than other jobs.
If that was true, why do employeers ask for skills and experience to apply for minimum wage jobs?
So what I’m taking from this comment is that you consider the time, effort and sweat of certain people to not be worth their continued existence, as you’d have them unable to earn enough in their “unskilled” role to support themselves without social welfare topping it up or else losing necessities of life. What you don’t seem to realise is that all these jobs you’re sneering at are necessary for your own quality of life! Someone has to do them and those people deserve to exist in society as more than a second-class servant. Those roles also actually tend to… Read more »
You are 100% exactly wrong, because “the bare minimum to support an adult” is literally what minimum wage was created for. That was the point.
Minimum wage is definitely not a living wage in any jurisdiction I’ve lived in. I’ve lived in multiple provinces, rural, suburban, city, and in quite a few different areas.
The living wage would be better but still would have an issue insofar as what a living wage would be would vary even within a state. It would need to be fairly granular to be accurate or pick the most expensive area in a state and base the living wage on that so every place in the state would meet a living wage.
Ja, well, minimum wage in the States isn’t something you can survive on.
That’s the law but in my experience it’s rarely if ever enforced. I’ve even reported businesses to the department of labor for violating that only for nothing to come of it.
This! And that’s only if the business gets reported, as many staff aren’t safe or able to do so for various reasons. But yes, a law against power and corruption, without enforcement, is barely a guideline. We’ve all seen that much recently.
You know quite well that “enforce minimum wage” meant “pay then minimum wage by default, don’t make them rely on tips to reach it”
In Minnesota minimum wage is minimum wage. Tips are always ontop.
Same with Washington state. Tip credit, as it is called, is not allowed in this state as well.
Counterpoint: If you’re not making enough tips that your Employer has to compensate you up to minimum wage, then you are much more likely to be fired for “unrelated reasons”.
And in the US, that is completely legal.
If you’re not making enough tips and everyone else is, maybe you’re doing something wrong and there is a very good reason to fire you. You think of that one?
The problem is that for those working in the tipping industry, the minimum wage is NOT adjusted by inflation 🙁 Which explain why it is no longer a living wage
Moreover cost-of-living isn’t merely tied to inflation but also supply and demand.
Here’s a question that troubles me about this:
If you spent $100 in a fancy restaurant, your waiter would deserve 5x more than if you just spent $20 in a diner?
Also you tip the person who brings the drinks.
But not the person who made the drinks and not the person who made your food.
All you are doing is giving money to a person for bringing you something someone else made.
So in all honesty everybody should get a decent pay and the tips should be split among all staff. Including the one who cleans.
In most of the places I worked in that actually was how we did it. Even the dishwashers and cleaning ladies got a cut of the tips.
Chef here. I see where you are coming from, but tbf, a waiter working in a high class restaurant is likely to be way more qualified than a waiter in a basic restaurant – or at least, should be. Trained service staff can not be compared to your run of the mill waiter. In my country their education takes multiple years, the same time as a trained cook/chef and the job profile involves many aspects. Kitchen /service often times make jokes and tease one another, but I got the highest respect for the professionals. Those people def earn their pay… Read more »
The tipping culture is quite differently in my country (minimum wage will be raised to 14$ per hour later this year). Nevertheless I tend to give generously. But with deliveries I always tip cash directly to the delivery person. I do not trust those online platform to make sure it arrives at the right spot. Too many greedy hands in between the money and the person who receives it. This has the disadvantage of only the delivery person profiting from the tip. But I see no alternative. As for the comic: I am pretty sure the platform and the business… Read more »
A HUGE issue with tipping in the USA, is that legally if an employee is “tipped”, the minimum wage is drastically lowered. In my state, waitstaff make $3.75 an hour from the restaurant. Legally, the restaurant has to see the waitstaff compensated up to $9.87 after tips. But if the staff make below that one pay period, the restaurant is able to garnish the tips from future pay periods to make up for it.
A “living wage” in my state for 1 adult, no children, is $13.63. Given that restaurants generally mark-up their food 200%, it just doesn’t seem right.
I’m assuming you mean Canada? And if that is the case, no, Cash Tips are not tax free (or at least they weren’t 20ish years ago when my wife was waitress) and must be reported on your tax return.
Legally yes, realistically it would be very hard to prove you were lying if you underreported cash tips. especially as a delivery driver it would be rather easy for half the bills to fall into the seat cushions so to speak.
Some years back, there was a conversation a friend of mine had with a stripper/dancer at a popular downtown location. She had a Masters of Psychology and was working on her PhD. My friend asked why she wasn’t working in that line of work. “Because I’m a single mother, decent looking, and I *declare* $110K a year <wink, wink>” (aka ‘I make a lot more than that’) and it turns out a Masters(Psych) is worth about $75K starting out so she’s planning to have the PhD and work in that once she got a bit older, but by then she’ll… Read more »
Never said one had to declare all of them 😉 But you’ll invite a world of hurt if you don’t report any, or drastically under-report them.
YES CRA…I did work as wait-staff but I only made $200 in tips this past year even though I worked full time…Oh…you don’t believe me…Um….
As someone who used to work in food, let me say this.
People will 100 percent fuck with your food.
Send something back to the kitchen that isn’t an absolute mess to start with and you might well get screwed with. Now, I got a huge drywall staple in a zuccini slice. It’s a good thing I chewed and didn’t just swallow. It was huge. The strange part is their veg boxes had more conventional copper staples. I was just a young person and nobody in the resto had any reason to hate me that I can think of… it was baffling. I wasn’t impressed with the manager’s response. I mean, if I’d have swallowed it and I ended up… Read more »
Honestly, as a chef, I prolly would have called the health dept myself after that.
Accidents should not happen, they can happen, but if you find something like that and they don’t react accordingly…maybe they shouldn’t be running a restaurant to begin with.
Who knows what the next guest finds in their food.
I understand not everyone wants to deal with that kind of drama though, especially since you say you were young.
But that’s messed up.
I also got a chunk of polycarbonate (a chunk broke out of the blender when I ordered an iced beverage one summer day) and it again is a good thing that I can identify textures in my mouth or I’d have swallowed that. Just a freak thing.
I was so frustrated and hungry (I couldn’t finish my meal because I was so put off) that I just wanted to go home. But now, being older, I’d have called the health folks.
They will most certainly not. No one wants to be fired, they are working there literally for the money. Sure maybe once, maybe even twice, you could get away with some fuckery but over say a YEAR of employment do you think you could escape notice? Im not even talking being fired, putting pubic hair in food is close to assault. Maybe you worked in food you also said “used to” im sure your ass was fired
Nah, I got sick of the conditions and left to join the military.
And food totally got messed with. Wait staff would let kitchen staff know who the jerks were. And fucking with food doesn’t always involved stuff like body hair.
It can be simply undersized portions, less ingredients, little too long or a little to short in the oven, along with the occasional bodily fluid.
Understood that’s how it was where you worked! We’re just saying that this definitely isn’t universal.
not at my place. i catch you doing that to peoples food and youre out the door and praying i dont call the trumpers down the road.
With the conditions in fast food and a lot of managements not caring about the goings on of the kitchen, stuff does happen.
And with the conditions in fast food, a lot of people, especially younger people don’t much care about staying long term.
People would accuse me of wanting to fuck with their food. I didn’t have time for that shit. I just want your asshole out of my face. I wasn’t thinking about spitting in it until you told me not to. We made an honest mistake, I’m going to fix it for you. You being a jerk about the mistake isn’t necessary, but unless you are really a Dick to me, I’m not going to do something that could get me fired.
Dunno, never seen people intentionally fuck with a customers food in my career…and I started out in a roach infested sinkhole. That was NOT a good place..but even there I never saw any of the employees do anything like that.
Then again…would I want to risk it? Hell no.
But I treat people in the service industry with respect in general, no matter the branch. As long as they respect me, of course.
As someone who has worked in a kitchen, never seen someone messing with food
Seconding plenty of the other replies to say I haven’t seen this either. At least in practice…
Saw someone complaining about a customer and making a joke about messing with the food in response which almost cost them their job.
And had an owner, again, ‘jokingly’? Recommend it for a low tipper. We ignored and criticised him but he might have potentially swayed someone newer.
Rumours abound, but my experience has been pride in our work and/or at the very least a basic respect for the consent, rights and health of customers.
Some places are better than others. But don’t assume that just because you’ve never seen it that it doesn’t happen.
I’m not at all assuming that – as I say, “rumours abound”, and certainly you’re making it clear it happened where you worked before. BUT the same goes in reverse! Your old workplace had this happen frequently but it may not be the norm given that plenty of others wouldn’t stand for it for any reason.
I generally tip 15-25% when dining in. (15% is only for abysmal service and if there was no real excuse for it.) A little more than 20% is my average, hitting 25% or possibly more if the waiter/waitress was REALLY good or had to deal with extra problems. I never used to tip for To Go, but I have done so a little more during the pandemic, mostly at regular restaurants that I wanted to help out because they weren’t allowed to have people inside. Now that we’re back to normal on that, I’ve kind of gone back to normal… Read more »
“15% is only for abysmal service and if there was no real excuse for it”
Chewing on this for a bit. If you get abysmal, unexcusable service you still fork over 15% of the price of the meal to reward it?
About your last paragraph, there are jerks and good professionals in every profession. Is it really on the customer to reward good behaviour and fail to reward bad behaviour? Shouldn’t it be the restaurant’s? Just food for thought.
Agreed, except for one minor alteration:
“Is it really on the customer to reward good behaviour and also reward but slightly less so bad behaviour? Shouldn’t it be the restaurant’s?”
That’s what actually happens when you still tip 15% for bad service like OP described.
Yes, yes you still tip 15% for bad service. Because that’s the deal when you chose to go into a restaurant where the employees are paid by your tips and you knew it. Absolutely no restaurant advertising the position as, “come to work for us, you might get stiffed!” Tipping is the deal. And yes, sometimes bad service happens. Sometimes the server screws up. But you know what? I’ll bet dollars to donuts you screwed up at your job before too. I bet you completely messed something up and you got a terrible horrible lecture from your boss about how… Read more »
Except the customer is not their boss, their boss is their boss. So your analogy fails in that aspect. It shouldn’t be on the customer to pay the employee directly, especially if bad service was given. If it is a constant thing, the actual boss would, and should indeed fire said employee.
Your analogy does not work. Because when I worked really really hard for a week, did amazing things for my boss and he also didn’t pay me more.
Servers want tips, then they get to be treated differently on both ends of the scale.
This is why the customer should not be in charge of HR and compensation.
Tipping here is not a big deal as in America but NO you do not tip for bad service. HOWEVER if the server brings you drinks and you tell them they got something wrong the waiter can: “oh i’m sorry i’ll fix that for you just a sec” and bring me a new drink “what? uurgh fine” and bring me a new drink Sorry, i’m not paying for an eyeroll. If you say no one should be treated differently then your own words: a restaurant where the employees are paid by your tips don’t make any sense. No one should… Read more »
Perhaps. And if there was no tipping, that would certainly become the case. But the current one is not as flawed as many seem to think it is. As someone who runs my own business, I have to make my clients happy so they’ll come back. I sometimes get tips myself, which is nice. If I was a waiter, I’m pretty sure I would prefer the current system, where any given person might be generous, and not be reliant on my boss, who will always have the same attitude. And yeah, I have almost never gone below 15%. I mean…… Read more »
Let me turn that around:
Do accountants and mechanics and doctors get a significant part of their income determined by someone’s feelings about how they did their job like waitstaff? No, of course not.
So why is it okay for waitstaff?
Or would you like all jobs to be ‘happy customer dependent’ to a great degree?
Tips or no tips, the waiter who ignores you the whole time should be fired. They deserve to make nothing at that job because they are horrible at the job. And if I go to a restaurant where the waiter doesn’t care, I see that as management also doesn’t care, and I never go back.
I’d like to thank you for your approach but also recommend you consider that things aren’t quite as “back to normal” as they seem for those working in the restaurants – on their end, especially non-owners, they’re taking significant risk remaining in that line of work now that other aspects have been relaxed. (It was much, much safer with more regulations in place, to work customer service, than it is when people have become jaded and/or blasé about safety once again.) So the restaurant itself is probably not quite as desperate for your custom; but please do consider the food… Read more »
I work in a “front-line” profession, too, and I firmly disagree. This whole thing was overblown to begin with. If people still want to live in fear, sorry… that’s on them.
My only main counter argument: Canada: just over 900 deaths per 1M US: over 2600 deaths per 1M That’s nearly 3x. Both advanced countries. The major difference – vaccines and more lockdowns and masking. Less premature opening. And NZ, with some of the worlds highest regimes, 10 deaths per 1M (IIRC). Masks, mandates and vaccines work. And the impact of the unvaccinated have contributed about 2-3x their % of the population to ICU beds here. (recently about 200+ unvaccinated which was about 1/3rd of our provincial covid ICU loading from 10% of the population… ) If we had US per… Read more »
While I do agree with the general sentiment,I feel this might be a bit oversimplified as it does not take into account general health of the populace/preconditions and overall quality of healthcare provided. As in, would all those people have died if they lived in another place? If I am not mistaken average life expectation in the US was lower than in many other rich countries even pre covid. No clue how much/if any impact this has on the numbers, but I feel it belong in an honest discussion. That being said, I absolutely don’t think this was blown out… Read more »
I’m sorry to hear that you feel that way. But not everybody who worked customer service with me, or my partner, or others we know, were “untouched” by an “overblown” global pandemic. Some were just fine – others have been permanently disabled and others didn’t survive. And at the point where people, even “fit healthy” people (and especially anyone with ANY underlying issue even unknown ones), are literally still dying despite massive global effort against the disease? There’s a significant difference between choosing to take a risk and go out clubbing as you feel healthy, and having to work FOH… Read more »
We have the statistics on mortality. If someone you know got it that sucks, but even among the highest risk demographics of over 80s, the mortality rate is only about five percent. Among younger people it is minuscule, a tiny fraction of a percent. It absolutely was overblown and no anecdotal evidence changes that.
In germany it is the same since the pamdemic hit. Tips have to be chosen during placing the order, so I just have to live with (in very rare occasions) delayed deliveries, or cold or not as ordered food afterwards. A bad review afterwards will maybe not fix anything about this. So I also would like to only tip after getting the stuff I ordered, to thank for good service or overfriendly drivers. I am certain, they depend on that tipps a lot due to the low wages they are kind of trapped in.
You can hardly compare Germany to the U.S. – their tipping environment is far, far worse and toxic.
I never tip up front, usually I dont even pay up front, thus not giving off the idea I didnt want to tip. We usually tip about 10% (which is the common ground in Germany)
Especially in a pandemic situation where any customer-facing role is potentially very dangerous! So thank you so very much for tipping. Your lost custom and a bad review are both potentially very powerful indeed, FWIW – and the tip will still have helped.
In these cases I think the app should let you give the tip AFTER the service, because is then when you know how good it has been the attention and the food. But of course, I live in Spain and I have been told a lot of ways of how you should rate the tip (it should be never less than a 10% of the ticket, it is not the same a restaurant than a burguer, etc…) so not the best one to give my opinion indeed. This said, I always give tip when I order food online and some… Read more »
Different places, different cultural norms. If you don’t expect other countries to change just to make you less anxious. (Now, if you said ‘because it is a better system’, that might have more traction.)
I recall one place I visited and I was told “You either tip a full 15% or zero because either the food and service was sufficient or it was not. A half-tip is an insult here.”
When in Rome… (or in this case, North America)
The entire idea of “your wage is determined by the whims of the person you’re serving” is atrocious. No one should have to deal with an unstable paycheck, especially not in food service, where most people are working paycheck to paycheck.
We almost never eat out in places where people’s paychecks come from tips, and if we DO, it’s a flat 20%. Part of the meal.
If a restaurant opened that had a “gratuity optional” style, where the meals cost more and the staff were paid well, I’d go there in a heartbeat. As it is, that’s just fast food.
i have a pizza place i go to i love. on their pay machine is a tip function. every time i go the cashier just wont let me hit it. let me give you the money for my pizza!
Alternatively, I think there have been restaurants that have implemented a flat, universal, 18% gratuity add-on for all orders. You don’t enter your own tip, it’s there when you receive the bill. It’s been pretty successful, from what I understand. It’s sort of like what you suggest, except what the server is receiving for their work remains transparent, instead of being wrapped up in an overall price hike that the restaurant is then allowed to dole out (or not). I feel like that solves the problem of an hourly wage maybe not compensating for what waitstaff does in varying situations… Read more »
It’s not by any means a perfect solution but yes – it’s definitely at least both transparent and also supportive of the staff! (Presuming the tips still make their way to the staff appropriately, which is not always the case – some institutions still see tips, let alone pris-fixe tips, as extra income. But it’s AN improvement.) It does require a legal right to enforce the tip as an aspect of the menu price however and works better the more widespread it becomes as otherwise diners don’t necessarily pay attention to the reasons why X place is more expensive!
I think that’s an improvement, but doesn’t resolve the issue of “unstable paycheck.” My town had, pre-Covid, a 24-hour diner – think like a Denny’s, but cruddier. Some nights, they’d be packed. Some nights, they’d be dead. Staff had to work either way. And 18% guaranteed gratuity off of five meals for an eight hour shift still means minimum wage.
Compare that to the store that might sell the same amount of product in an eight-hour shift, but still manages to give the employee a stable wage. The business takes the risk of fluctuating income, not the employees.
That’s fair, but a lot of the opinion I hear is that the gratuity tends to work out to above minimum wage, even with fluctuating crowds. So switching to a fixed rate would be a pay decrease in those instances.
One way to do it would be to either ensure all staff kept tips above their decent, living-support wages, or even just allowed all staff to share tips across the board on top (which is what decent establishments elsewhere do as standard).
That’s been the standard for large parties for a long time (because of the amount of work involved), but for small parties, I think that’s stupid. It’s not a tip anymore… it’s just a required fee. And if you’re doing that, the menu should just have those costs adjusted up front.
Actually if you see my other comment – many restaurants have implemented this and they use verbiage such as service charge which prevents it from being required to be used as a tip – it allows them to keep it all or distribute at their own discretion.
you’re missing the concept of “gratuity”. Gratuity is something you give because you had good service. This is not something they can make you pay up front as you don’t know yet if the service was good. It should be but it’s offensive to say “i’m letting you pay more than what I’m charging because you are going to like your stay” On the other hand if the restaurant just ups their prices to provide better pay that’s a completely different thing. And then you can still decide you had good service and tip. However who do you tip: the… Read more »
Uh… that’s literally what any normal non-US restaurant does, which is increase the price of the food to pay for the wages. I mean think about it, adding 18% as a mandatory tip, is the same as adding 18% to the cost of any item. Adding 18% to two small glasses of Coca Cola at $1.00 is the same as adding 18% to one large glass of Coca Cola at $2.00. It’s simple math. Adding this increase at the end though, rather than simply adding it onto the price of every item to begin with, now that’s insidious. I mean,… Read more »
Every person who runs their own business has to deal with unstable paychecks. Including the owners of said restaurants.
And a restaurant DID chage to no tips in Seattle a few years ago. It went out of business in one year. Mostly because the majority of the waitstaff quit.
Agreed – every person who runs their own business has to deal with unstable paychecks. But that’s the risk of being self-employed – and if you can’t pay yourself a living wage, you don’t stay self-employed for long.
If you decide to be an employer, though, you’re entering an agreement for someone to do work for you for hours at a time for an for an agreed-upon amount. You’re buying their services. Very different than getting a cut of the profits of a business.
“However, it is ingrained in our society at the moment” not in my society. but then again in my society you don’t get charged for ambulance rides
You do still get charged for ambulance rides… in the form of far higher taxes.
Your payment may be hidden in a VAT or a much higher marginal income tax rate, but it is still a payment.
Almost nothing’s *really* free. Even CAD has ads.
Even if it comes frome somewhere, its not actively discouraging you from using an ambulance if you might need one because you can’t afford the fee. Still better.
Seconded. I’m in the UK and we’re presently furious with our current right-wing corrupt government’s mishandling of our money, specifically because it isn’t funding those aspects of greatest need in the country atm (or anything save lining certain private business partners’ pockets). But very few of us are actually dead set against taxation with the corruption element out of the equation. Taxes are essential, because services are essential, as is an uplifted minimum equity of basic human quality of life – both ought be benefits from existing in a society. We are paying for that privilege.
The difference between where I live and where my cousin lives: My dad had a massive heart attack. He had a triple bypass, then later stent put in, then that caused plaque to get lose and a partially paralyzing stroke and speech loss (which he all healed back up over 2 years about). He got his leg torn up and needed hundreds of dollars in dressings and a nurse to apply them daily. He was a ‘too much tax guy’ but after I pointed out he had incurred hundreds of thousands of dollars in costs he didn’t have to pay… Read more »
Okay, but how many other people would I have paid the Ambulance fees of before I ever actually need one for myself? I’m also not being given the option of if I want to pay into a system I might not even need for another 40 years. It’s not insurance, where I can choose my plan and payments, it’s an enforced theft of my earnings for an OPTIONAL SERVICE. The government interceeding in the services of a society almost always cause those services to be worse than they would be otherwise. So I am immediately doubting these ambulance rides, and… Read more »
It is true that someone extremely lucky may pay in more than they take out, but only because the same extreme situation is true in reverse – anyone unlucky enough to become injured or ill before their working life begins is covered by default anyway. And it really isn’t an equivalence of “one ambulance for me, forty for other people”. US medical bills can soar to the levels of a person’s entire working life. Your paid portion of a government-sponsored total is infintesimally small in comparison to the overall running costs per patient. It always strikes me as spectacularly odd… Read more »
So glad I live in a country where tipping does not exist. You just psy the bill and all staff get paid a their wage. Minimum wage going up to $21.25 later this year.
I am a 6 year veteran of my medical industry, keeping my certifications current and providing a valuable and required service to my community that saves lives and promotes health on a daily basis. I earn about $23 USD an hour after my company fought to keep me from going to a competitor when I started getting fed up with their management. The fact that some lazy high schooler with a part time job at Burger Clown flipping cheap patties on a greasy grill would be making about the same as me is utterly offensive and I find the entire… Read more »
Wouldn’t you consider that perhaps your work would be rewarded more highly as well? It isn’t as if everyone is paid to that same level – nor, of course, that all part-timers are “lazy kids”. But consider that all jobs require experience and skill to be done well, and all people deserve the right to be able to survive. However your tenure, qualifications and education would absolutely command a wage above “minimum” and you’d expect to be earning a lot more than $23 in OP’s location! The fact is that other people don’t have to be literally suffering for your… Read more »
Starting pay was 15 an hour. Certification bumped me up to 16. Getting promoted got me up to 17. The rest of the 6 dollars an hour came from years of dedication despite the abuse of my patients, idiot superiors who I outlasted every single time, and determined work ethics. Now, Carl’s Jr is offering 18 bucks an hour to flip burgers. To start. The entire economy is BROKEN, and increasing minimum wage will not fix it. An economy is a living, breathing thing, and adjusting only a single part of it has far further ramifications than you think. Grocery… Read more »
I’m strictly against any and all kinds of automatic tipping, and will avoid it at all costs. What’s the point of calling it a ‘tip’ if it’s essentially part of the normal price? And on the opposite side, why should you need to pay extra to not have your meal sabotaged? The whole point of restaurant prices is that you pay more than the food itself costs, in exchange for the service of not having to make/get it yourself. There is no reason basic service should be in the tip instead of in the actual price. I get that the… Read more »
Should the person working the slow shift with little business make the same amount of money as the person working a busy shift? Holidays, Sporting events and Weather can all effect the levels of business. You can’t have someone’s hourly wage vary depending on the level of business. But the people working when its the most busy deserve extra. And that is best accomplished by a tip. Think of it this way. The Resturant gets more money if they have more customers. If all customers tip, then the employees get more money for having more customers. Think of an automatic… Read more »
So what’s the point of the restaurant being open off-hours, then? If they don’t make as much money outside the busy shift, no point in having it open, right? One important reason is, regardless of other reasons, the restaurant owner sees the necessity in being open outside of peak hours, and they need waiting staff to cover that time. And the waiting staff needs an incentive to come if they can’t expect to make any reasonable money from tips. What is the typical set of duties for waiting staff? Do they clean the floors, or is there another person doing… Read more »
Because they still make some money, and yes to everything you just said. But all that shit still happen even when the restaurant is busy.
Do you work at a restaurant? No you don’t because if you did you’d know why tips are important.
Get off your (**))* Ivory tower and try listening to the people who work in the industry.
You do realize you’re speaking nonsense and the rest of the civilized world is shaking its head at you? Tipping is a thing in USA and Canada. Most of the world has solved this problem a long time ago.
A tip in Europe is something reserved for truly exceptional service. People tip 5% if they were present until closing hours, if they were exceptionally picky, sometimes if their children were making a commotion. 10% is customary if the customers are very satisfied, and anything beyond 10% is seen as extravagant, boastful, patronizing and generally frowned upon.
> Should the person working the slow shift make the same amount of money as the person working a busy shift? Yes. Why shouldn’t they? They’re both doing their job for their assigned hours. How much or how little work there is available during that time shouldn’t affect salary. Do you think a pilot or bus driver should receive pay cuts whenever there aren’t enough travelers taking their assigned route? Sometimes you can get lucky and a have an easy day, another you might have to work a bit harder. It’s not a big deal, it typically balances out over… Read more »
Well said, George. If we want to end the stupid practice of tipping, we all need to stop doing it altogether. If everyone stopped tipping, people would be less inclined to work in the service industry. Labor shortages would mean restaurants would have to compete for the workers that still want to work in the industry, and thus pay them a higher wage. Isn’t that how capitalism is supposed to work? It seems to me that this problem solves itself, and all that’s required is for people to stop supporting this bullsh*t system.
Agreed. If a restaurant FORCES a tip then I walk out. Forcing tips is not acceptable. Tips are a “Thank you for not being awful” thing.
I will toss a few dollars down. No percentages!!! If I feel the service was lacking….no tip.
That’s the PROPER way to do it. No exceptions permitted.
Maye it’s because I’m European, but the whole idea of people being expected to tip – and god forbid them if they don’t – always felt wrong to me. People earn wages. If they perform extra, they get a little bit extra, which can happen (or fail to happen) in any profession. I certainly don’t go around to my clients handing out my hat saying “Hey, did you like my performance? Was I up to your standards? Could I panhandle you for a bit to help me eat this month?”. Reliance on tips to supplement a wage which is ridiculously… Read more »
Adding, I think in my life I was tipped twice. Both times I accepted out of politeness, but I hated it. It felt so patronising. Like I should by rights be kneeling down and praising the Heav’ns and Lord of Creation that that person was so kind as to give me a little bit extra money. It felt utterly disgusting. A system that relies on this sort of thing is nothing sort of debasing and denies people their basic human dignity.
I like you. 🙂
Where I live, tipping is also not the norm.
Occasionally, when for some reason a waiter is particularly helpful (or otherwise impresses), I’ll leave a tip on the table for them to find after I’ve left.
The tip is because I appreciate that particular something extra they did. Not because I want to “lord it” over anybody.
I always feel icky if/when I’m abroad and hotel/restaurant staff act in some overly servile manner.
Sure, I’m a customer, but we’re equals for feck’s sake.
I more or less agree, but the issue inherent in this discourse is literally how ingrained the system is to employee survivability in these roles, the US in particular (but also elsewhere). A “tip” if it exists at all should be awarded for good service and should not preclude poorer customers from ordering at all. But the frankly disgusting rates at which servers and other restaurant/food staff are often paid makes it an absolute necessity – and measures intended to change that have often backfired, as businesses find loopholes in order to “stay competitive”, such as revoking future income from… Read more »
If I understand the US system correctly, then tipping is for waiters because the wages are bonkers. So in that case, as you yourself are arguing, when ordering take out and you are going to pick it up, tipping should not be asked for. No waiters are involved. If you end up tipping, then that is your choice, but since it’s the kitchen and then you doing the work, then I would say no.
But then again, I might just be wrong regarding your skewed waiter wage system.
No, you’re right. Last I checked, minimum wage for waitstaff was around $2.50.
The counter-argument to that is many restaurants use a tip pooling system to help balance out the good and the bad customers. The pool is also shared with the kitchen staff because they contributed to the whether the meal was good or not.
Which many good waiters hate because it means that the tips they earn are shared with the bad waiters who piss off the customers and don’t get any. Makes them think “what’s the point?”
I’m not under the impression that kitchen staff are particularly well-paid (although not to that ridiculous extent!) and it strongly depends on whether tips are shared across the establishment or kept solely with the earner (at which point tipping via app is pointless anyway, so if we assume the former, it means waitstaff can survive with lower risks than having to cater for potentially infectious customers at the moment). – I’m definitely NOT saying I agree with this, or that it’s even ethical on the customer, frankly. But it’s currently one of the few silver linings to a very clouded… Read more »
I am so glad I live in Australia is all I can say.
Because my anxiety would break me putting up with an inbuilt expectation that tips are mandatory or else.
You are correct. Tips should be a gift, not part of the service cost. Service costs calculated in advance should be fixed and not up to the customer.
Restaurants should price their food such that they can afford to pay their staff properly. If waiters should get 25% tip as standard, then make your food prices 25% higher and pay waiters 25% more wage. In the end the customer pays the same, the waiter gets a fair income and tips can go back to being what they should be, a friendly gift, not a guilt trip.
Here’s the problem, do the people working the slow shift when there isn’t as much business deserve the same wage hike as those working the dinner rush? No the people working the dinner rush deserve more money, as the work is much harder. But your hourly wage can’t simply be in constant flux depending on the level of business, The simplest was to accomplish that is an gratuity charge.(ie an automatic tip). That will encourage speed and efficiency, and with a tip on every order people will want to work when its busy because it means more money. But if… Read more »
Unfortunately, mid-level restaurants have found that they don’t get as many customers when they go to higher wages with higher prices. It is difficult to break through an ingrained cultural habit like our tipping structure. One of the mantras from business class that I remember 20 years later is that most sit-down restaurants are a very low margin business to begin with, and that something like 60-70% fail within a year of opening. Asking for a tip at a counter where I pick up my own food is a bit ridiculous… especially with prices rising so much. Seems to be… Read more »
If the food is really good, people will be willing to spend 25% more on it. Also, there’s an opportunity here to advertise a tipping-free experience, which might be a niche to draw customers in.
Not every mid-level restaurant will suffer. Some might even thrive, and if the idea catches on, then the free market has spoken.
I live in the Netherlands, and we don’t have such expectations here luckily. People get paid a proper wage no matter what profession they’re in. So when I see the tip option when ordering food, I generally don’t even notice it’s existence. I could see how a waiter providing excellent service in a restaurant might deserve a little extra, but so far I’ve done that maybe once or twice in my adult life. I visited the US years ago, and was slightly annoyed by finding out how “normal” it was to tip. Taxes not included in prices shown too, what’s… Read more »
The biggest problem with showing taxes is that is so varied. There is federal tax, state tax, county tax and depending on where you live the city tax. The $1 soda could cost $1.10 after tax and three miles away in what is considered a different city that same bottle is $1.14. Or $1.25…stores don’t want to mess with each location having different signage. It sucks but there it is…
In South Africa a lot of these drivers are on motorcycles or scooters and work in rain or heat waves so I have empathy for them. I’ve seen a lot of food apps now introducing 2 options to tip – one for the restaurant and one for the driver which I feel is a bit of a cheek for the consumer. On the other hand we also can have groceries delivered from supermarkets with their apps so the tip only goes to the driver. Still, to add even more to the dilemma, many of these stores expect the drivers to… Read more »
So I work in the pizza delivery industry and let me tell what is NOT the answer. Simply paying a higher hourly wage… why? Because and eight hour shift from 4PM to Midnight on a Friday is a hell of a lot more work then 11AM-7PM on a Tuesday. Holidays, Sporting events and weather can all effect business.(also in my state there is no reduced minimum wage for tipped positions) The answer is, for tipping not to be optional, a flat 15% gratuity charge on all deliveries would solve so many problems. The extra money per run encourages speed and… Read more »
Tipping should never be a thing. Ever. I’m saying this as someone from a country that doesn’t really do tipping and instead has good wages.
Agreed completely. Tips are for the waiters, for the service staff. If I’m going to pick up my own food rather than being served, who’s getting the tip? 🤔 If I’m doing a big group order, or a small but picky order, I’ll usually do a small tip. Otherwise, no. There’s nobody involved in this transaction in need of a tip. And again, that they’re asking for one before I’ve even set foot inside, which is ridiculous. If I go in and the person who hands me the bag somehow finds a way to go above and beyond, I can… Read more »
In my time at a restaurant, the bartender was usually the one handling the to-go orders. Of course, that was pre-vid, so I’m sure there’s a dedicated person to do it now. We also had to tip out other workers(expo, food runner, busser, etc.)based on our sales, to-go and in house together. While we never expected 20%, maybe half that or even just a few bucks on a larger order was nice to see. But boy would we get heated when someone dropped in a $100+ order and leave nothing.
Let me explain to you why Tips are a good thing and should be automatic rather then optional.
The Restaurant gets more money if they have more customers.(duh) If all customers tip, then the employees get more money for having more customers. This encourages them to be quick and efficient and also to work when the restaurant will be the most busy. The employees get more money if they service more customers. If service is poor, then people will order less which means less money.
Think of an automatic tip as profit sharing.
That’s a bullshit reason. The restaurant needs to be open during business hours, possibly by agreement with the landlord or venue owner, possibly by local regulations, etc. So the restaurant needs to have waiting staff during off-hours as well as during busy hours. Then the waiters have a set of duties, yet some of those duties are waived during busy hours because they’re seen as non-essential, and they are enforced more stringently outside busy hours because there’s time to do it then. So think of mandatory minimum wage/living wage as compensation for tips lost during off hours and payment for… Read more »
You’re a fool and everyone who works at a restaurant would agree with me… just checked we all think your and fool
Your reply is conditioned by the current situation. You can’t imagine change, so you invent reasons why the current situation is better than any alternative.
And you’re not even aware of it.
How about the restaurant doesn’t pay cooks during slow hours? There were no customers, the restaurant didn’t make money, and the cook was idle all the time, so they shouldn’t make any money.
The more I read of your posts, the more I get that the idea that your philosophy is that base pay doesn’t even matter: if it was triple a “living wage”,the customer should be required to contribute to your income.
I only tip cash to the deliverer and always check my food before eating and review for good or bad. Being known as a responsive, fair reviewer and cash tipper has worked well for me.
Personally I don’t like the percentage system at all. I like to do a flat amount (based on how many people, quality of service, time, etc). Someone who works at a cheap restaurant could work way harder than someone at an expensive place yet get tipped less. In the end though I’d prefer they got paid well to begin with.
Also came to say this. Percentage based tipping is really stupid. If I give $5 to the pizza delivery guy, he is usually pretty happy about that. If I give $5 to a waitress in a steakhouse, I get dirty looks. I have increased both of their hourly wage for this particular hour by $5, which seems fairly generous to me. Why should it be any different?
My anxiety is a little worse. I’m not necessarily worried that they’ll mess with my food–I’m somehow concerned that these people I’ve never met and likely will never meet will see that I’ve opted not to tip and consider me an uncaring asshole. I mean, it’s why I tip $1 at places like Starbucks where baristas make $15 per hour and handle my order for like 2 minutes. I feel obligated to tip even when I don’t necessarily feel a tip is merited. My parents on the other hand operate under a standard of 10% or $10, whichever is lesser.… Read more »
I have a question: who gets money from that gratuity charge?
Waiting staff that stands idle because you don’t dine in, but would wait on you if you were?
Is it divided fairly, or does a random person get all of my tip?
Does the money go to the cook? The person packing up the food and placing it on the pickup counter?
Or is it simply an underhanded way for the restaurant to make extra money?
Well for one thing if a restaurant has a Gratuity Charge it can’t count against their minimum wage. So in some states if you are in a tipped position the minimum wage is lower. A Gratuity Charge is not a tip its a direct addition to their wages. Who gets that is determined by the restaurant so ask. But general it will go to the same people who’d have been tipped. But some of it at least is more likely to find its way back to the cooks and people in the Kitchen. It goes to the employee’s if it… Read more »
Owner employs self as a waiter. Problem solved.
Since I live in Europe, tipping is not a thing for me. I just pay the price it says it costs.
Tipping is here something you only do in special cases, or you’re feeling super generous for some reason
usually for me (Brit) a tip comes from good service or its a place I really like, usually they are connected. It’s great when you can go somewhere and the staff remember you, even if your not a frequent (Maybe once or twice a month) customer.
In Australia, the wages are supposed to be a reasonable minimum by law, but lots of companies that do the deliveries or similar things get around this by putting the workers on a contract instead. So where tipping isn’t a normal part of our habits, its being similarly expected as in the US and almost necessary for the drivers. I’m on a low income so when i do order i usually cheap out with a 0 or minimum tip, but I don’t like the marketing of the US based delivery companies try to guilt you into it, or thirsting for… Read more »
There is one thing I don’t see anyone discussing: how all these Apps work. They already charge extra for the food in there because of the costs of maintenance. If you pay a tip using the App rather than handing the money directly to the restaurant/delivery staff, the App sometimes also takes some percentage or maybe they transfer the money with some delay. Also: you are not putting money into a tip jar, so how sure can you be that the staff is getting 100%?
My understanding is the app take a pretty hefty chunk off the top. I’ve been told to never use delivery apps for pickup.
I dont tip if im picking up. What always surprised me was when they started putting out the tip jar at a Frozen Yogurt shop by me. It’s entirely self serve and they just weigh it. Why should i tip them?
Normally you tip someone an extra for how they treated you during service, and, I’m repeating myself, it is something extra that you decide to give.
But probably this is a joke I’m not enough american to understand…
As a brazilian citizen, i can say that tipping is not customary in our culture, except in restaurants. The usual tip is a 10% fee (you can give more if you want to) and you can refuse to pay if you thought the service was bad. Or not paying at all, it’s your choice. But most people pay the 10% cause we know bartenders and waiters work is tough. So, apps like iFood have an option to tip the delivery man/woman, but it’s also not mandatory.
I’ve worked all aspects of the industry from chef to delivery and have seem some atrocious stuff happening, but also tons of good as well, usually it errs on the side of good 90% good to 10% bad. On that note I have to say that all of the fees being extorted by these delivery apps (grubhub, etc.) are the real reason I don’t tip like I used to….actually I’ve almost given up on it all together when using these apps. I have a strict 20% tip rule whilst eating in, but that’s a different experience altogether from ordering online… Read more »
Agreed on the fees — things like a “convenience fee” are absurd. Any time someone orders online from a sit-down restaurant, the company saves: Labor to have a greeter seat them at a table Labor for a server to write down the order Labor for the server to enter the order into their computer Labor for the server to take the order to the kitchen Labor for the server to take orders from the kitchen to the tables that ordered them Labor for the server to check on tables, refill waters, & handle any additional requests Labor for the server… Read more »
If you choose “pay cash”, you can still pay credit at the store and select a tip. Also, I doubt the staff see the tip option chosen. Instead, I think they only see “paid” or “not paid”.
Where I get confused is like a donut shop, I go to the counter and order a dozen glazed. The person fills the order spins the screen around for me to sign and it has 15 to 30 percent amounts to tip. I am always confused on what to do.
Anyone else notice how the recommended % for tipping has drastically increased over the years? I miss the days when you’d pay for a service, and the service would get done well. These days, I often feel pressure to tip even when the service is terrible.
$22.50 Minimum Wage. No exceptions. If you can’t afford to pay your employees a living wage then you don’t deserve to be in business.
Restaurant Employers are required to meet the same wage rules of every other industry with minimum wage , etc. If you don’t tip someone – fret not they will in fact get the required amount from their employer. It’s called tip credit – if you tip you pay the wages for the employer – if you don’t tip – the employer must pay the wages. Now what you should be more concerned about are restaurants that put a required tip/gratuity – if the restaurant does that on their bill automatically as a service charge they actually have complete control over… Read more »
There aren’t nearly enough “careers” available to provide all working-age adults with a career, in the US or anywhere in the world we have right now – and how those careers that do exist are distributed is invariably skewed via background, opportunity, location and nepotism. Even with robust laws attempting to correct. So effectively you’re describing some types of – absolutely necessary – work as deserving of a lesser wage, simply because they’re not as well-respected in society, which is again itself tied up in a whole bunch of inequities and happenstance. Knowing that said work will still need doing… Read more »
Does it concern you at all that I post my comment with factual data as a CPA – and you put an opinion (a fine one at that that you are entitled to but has no actual numbers that would support it) and the masses give my facts of industry a -7 and your opinion a plus 2 🙂 would almost indicate that the masses have no idea what the reality is just what they feel? I’ve worked in the industry and if you think those people are not as well respected or lesser in any way that is a… Read more »
I didn’t think I’d /need/ to provide unemployment data for you to see the obvious veracity of what I was saying, and it’s a weak counter-argument to dismiss my statement just because it wasn’t incorporated. I’m sure we can both agree that employment is not 100% in either the US, UK, or anywhere else in the world at present, regardless of many of those roles not being allegedly “career-worthy”. And speaking of anecdotal evidence, I‘ve ALSO worked the same industry, as stated above. Where I live the minimum wage is mandated by law and tips are optional (although socially expected)… Read more »
Well I would point out the following as important factors: 1) We’re in a time of our country where the gentleman in the white house has created an unemployment issue by shutting down the country. 2) Unemployment numbers aren’t really relevant to a conversation about jobs vs careers or at least I can’t figure out how you are linking those? 3) Hourly rate does not mean a job is not a career – I think you are associating salary and hourly roles with other attributes which is not the case – salary rates are based mainly on management positions and… Read more »
I don’t often add to these but I am against tipping in general, and would prefer to see gone for ever. Increase the cost of the food in the establishment, and pay a decent wage. The thing I hate so much about tipping is the whole % aspect of it. If I go into an establish and order a burger, fries and drink (non-alcholic), and my bill is $20, and I give a tip of $4, ok that’s fair. But if I order Steak & lobster and now my bill is 2-3x higher, how in the bloody hell can it… Read more »
As, among other things, a former waitress and barista, I have to say that I’ve seen time and time again how plenty of places actually don’t meet federal/state/national laws on employment law – whether that’s paying sub-minimum/refusing to top-up wages, withholding tips, or simply not providing enough breaks and food. Add in the fact that minimum wage isn’t enough to live on generally, plus that said cost of living just exponentially shot up – and THEN multiply all of this by the new status most service workers now have as expendable long-term front-line pandemic essential employees (and yes, it’s galling… Read more »
I appreciate I’ve gone STRONG there, and apologies if it rubs anybody the wrong way! But I suppose what I’m trying to say is that we could use more comics about worker exploitation in the service industry being awful in and of itself, rather than only via the frustrating knock-on effects of that on take-out costs. I think the forced-onto-customers unethical complicity deserves to be made more explicit, not left implicit, and the targets to aim for are higher up!
What bothers me is they mess with the automatic tip option like shown in the cartoon. Tips are supposed to be on the total, but they “auto calculate” the tip to include the tax. Why should the amount of the tip be different based on what state you live in?
That and many restaurants around here were caught including a tip in their bill, but their debit machine is still asking for a tip.
I’ve always assumed those tips are going to the driver and I’ll tip whatever the maximum default percentage is. I’m financially comfortable enough to be placing these orders and I don’t like to place them unless I can add decent compensation to what the person taking the time to deliver it is making. But I’m also fully aware that I’m kind of a naïve idealist. /shrug Years of placing delivery orders and I can only recall one time (through Ubereats) when the order was wrong and I couldn’t get it replaced in a reasonable time frame; got refunded instead. If… Read more »
It’s an order for Pick-Up, there is no driver for the tip to go to…
Haha, well shit, I could usually figure out why I’d miss the point of something so badly but in this case I’ve got no idea. Just going to blame the brain damage I guess. RIP
Here in Germany we tip normally around 10% if the service was good but that’s by no means mandatory. My father in law (who is mostly nice) never tips anyone and perhaps it’s the Right mindset as many argued that your employer should pay you not your customer.
Also it’s really different in other countries in some tipping is frowned upon as it’s like giving money to the poor or something. I once tried to tip when it was not custom and got the state of death for it so research beforehand
my dad impressed upon me at an early age: if you are getting a paid service, and the service is done well and to your preference, show your gratitude. and with that, even if i go to the barber to get my hair cut or beard trimmed, i drop them a 10er. imagine gratuity on a really well done bathroom reno…. i think ill just have to make the assumption there that the tip is in the cost.
Ooh, I have big ball of hatred for this. I’m a UK citizen and I visit the US a lot and you have all missed the point of a tip. It is a gratuity – it is supposed to be extra to basic pay. I know, I know, the system is stacked that way and I 100% do ot blame the workers – but the whole thing seams shady as poop. Also, the thing that annoys me the most is that people see it as expected. Do good? You get 20%. Do bad? You only get 15%. No… do bad… Read more »
A tip is a “reward” for good service. It should not be a “request” for good service.
Tipping, as a server I loved it. I made way more than min wage, okay I made bank doing it. This whole “Avoid paying a fair wage” argument is utter butkis. If you remove tipping and force a “living wage” it’ll reduce pay for those in that industry in the end. It will also reduce your level of service. Why should I bust my arse if I’m going to make just as much as that guy who just sleepwalks through the day?
As someone that made bank tipping, you take that away I’d find another job.
Go find another job, then. You’re a traitor to your coworkers.
Not at all. You might be happy with min wage crumbs, some of us take pride in our work and prefer to hustle to earn real money.
The one who sleepwalks gets fired
When picking up food or getting delivery, someone at the restaurant is taking the order off the line, boxing up each piece, making sure all the sides, sauces, and drinks are right, and then bagging the whole order up. I fear that this is being done by a server who’s taking time away from their tables, so I’ll typically tip 10% for pickup. A little more if I’m a regular there, and have been known to receive extras. The only food I order delivered is pizza. There are few reasons I can’t drive out and pick up my food carry-out.… Read more »