If those 1 or 2 turrets we see on the ships are the only weapons it would not be “enough dakka” (Those brown ships seem to have 6 gunturrets, 1 in the topfront of the ship, 1 double guned one in the back, and two double barreled turrets to each broadside). The problem is most capital ships would most likely have the most weapons in their broadsides and nearly none of those can fire at the moment . We basicly see only one broadside turret firing at the ship that seems to be the closest to the remains of the… Read more »
Excellent point. There would logically also be the factor of different scales of weaponry. You’d want easily manoeuverable, light-weight, rapid-fire point-defense cannons to use against agile fighters and torpedos, and heavy cannons that could punch through the armour and/or shields of other (relatively slower) capital ships.
I just take it as aesthetic eye candy. Large scale shooting conflicts like these between a bunch of large ships makes very little sense in modern military strategy and would probably make less in futuristic space settings. Just the sense of scale of cramming all the ships together in fleets and getting real close to the others and shooting with really slow plasma-whatevers that are flying around. realistically space combat between large hunks like this would be at long range (beyond visible sight) with swarms of drones firing off swarms of nanodrones (missiles) equipped with nuclear weapons while each side… Read more »
RobK
2 years ago
I think this is the first space battle I’ve seen that actually uses the 3D aspect of space
I had this exact same thought. The fact that this picture render the 3D aspect of the battle in my mind only add to the lack of it :
Spaceships seems to have an up and down and seems to face each other as if on a battlefield on earth ^^
This. ↑ Think what you will about the author himself, the thoughts OSC voiced regarding intersellar combat in the Ender series (especially as what was written in Ender’s Shadow) seem sound to me. That, in an environment that can be traveled in all three dimensions, and especially when weapons can be fired at the speed of light, with the accuracy of computers, formations offer far more weaknesses than strengths. Formations group all targets together, increase the possibility of friendly fire, limit your field of view, and only give you one angle to approach any situation. Not to mention that, facing… Read more »
Being able to take advantage of the entirety of the Z axis does not also automatically negate the tactical considerations for fleet formations. In any battle, positioning is key, both for protection and offense. Sure, you can send ships any which way you want, but doing so risks leaving a ship exposed, flanked, not only in danger from enemy ships, but from crossfire from your own forces (if you surrounded them in a sphere, for instance). For capital class ships which are less maneuverable/take more time to turn and reposition, you wouldn’t want to just rush them in to take… Read more »
There’s also the direction that the capitol ships approached the battlezone from. That would limit their choices on how to disperse.
That’s why the rebels were pinned between the Death Star and the Imperial Fleet in Return of the Jedi. The imperials knew what direction the rebels were coming from and positioned their fleet accordingly. If the rebels moved laterally to get out they become more of a target as the chances of the imperials hitting each other in the crossfire lessen.
That’s why head-on confrontations like this can still make sense despite having 3D space to work with.
TomB
2 years ago
Although I wonder about the one faction’s ships looking like armadillos and one would think some other designs might be more effective than either of those factions have chosen, I will say the one more important thing: Tim, That’s an amazing page. It’s colourful, it has depth, it has a real sense of motion and conflict, and it balances the background (a fleet engagement) with the cold, smashed cockpit section of a small craft in a very well-executed way. That page draws you into the fleet battle, then drags you out to the thought of being cold, tired, hurt, and… Read more »
Judging from how the craft broke up, and comparing it to Hornets, she might not even have lost pressure to the crew station. She could still have battery power but she would be on emergency oxygen. With battery power one radio could still work, but the antenna(s) might be gone. An emergency signal would be going off with the radio and the actual emergency beacon should be broadcasting as well.
Logan
2 years ago
Heyyy… this ain’t July 4th!
The Legacy
2 years ago
I’m not sure if this was a drawing error or intended, but I noticed that one of the Dragalax capital ship has a turret that has its barrels firing in two slightly separate directions. However, considering the projectiles are also heading in separate directions, I have to assume it was a creative decision. With that in mind, I assume that the barrels themselves have independent tracking, and are used to target faster-moving swarms of smaller ships? Anti-fighter? Anti-frigate? Is it a saturation (ie. Flak) weapon? Also to clarify, when I say Barrel, I know that is an extremely loose interpretation… Read more »
If you’re referring to the white/silver one on the upper right, then I’m pretty sure it’s intended. Probably the entire weapon turret pivots on the ball joint, and the two separate barrels independently move and aim on their own joints
Robert
2 years ago
There seems to be 3 different kinds of DL ships shown. The 2 that have what appears to be a large “lens” on the front may be a wide beam / short range weapon that requires the ship iself to be pointed in the right direction. Sort of like the “Mauler” in Star Fleet Battles maybe? There’s 4 that look to have most of their weapons mounted on the bow, and 1 bigger ship that has smaller cannons on the sides and some bigger ones on top. More like a dreadnought. All the fed ships are of the same type.… Read more »
Volguus
2 years ago
Target the Reavers! Target everyone! SOMEBODY FIRE!
Dom
2 years ago
Do you have a high res image of this page Tim? Would be a killer background image for my phone.
mousio
2 years ago
magnificent!
glad the pilot survived too, though it didn’t feel like she would just go out after an introduction like that.
minor gripe: say one thing about the Dragalax, say they know how to make their ships look awesome! federation’s on the other hand, looks like they commissioned cargo freighters with turrets slapped on ’em ?
24
pew pew pew
on a side note, I find there’s a serious lack of gun batteries on these massive ships
NOT ENOUGH DAKKA, TIM! ^^
If those 1 or 2 turrets we see on the ships are the only weapons it would not be “enough dakka” (Those brown ships seem to have 6 gunturrets, 1 in the topfront of the ship, 1 double guned one in the back, and two double barreled turrets to each broadside). The problem is most capital ships would most likely have the most weapons in their broadsides and nearly none of those can fire at the moment . We basicly see only one broadside turret firing at the ship that seems to be the closest to the remains of the… Read more »
we really need to learn from the orks and put turrets EVERYWHERE on the ship
Excellent point. There would logically also be the factor of different scales of weaponry. You’d want easily manoeuverable, light-weight, rapid-fire point-defense cannons to use against agile fighters and torpedos, and heavy cannons that could punch through the armour and/or shields of other (relatively slower) capital ships.
I just take it as aesthetic eye candy. Large scale shooting conflicts like these between a bunch of large ships makes very little sense in modern military strategy and would probably make less in futuristic space settings. Just the sense of scale of cramming all the ships together in fleets and getting real close to the others and shooting with really slow plasma-whatevers that are flying around. realistically space combat between large hunks like this would be at long range (beyond visible sight) with swarms of drones firing off swarms of nanodrones (missiles) equipped with nuclear weapons while each side… Read more »
I think this is the first space battle I’ve seen that actually uses the 3D aspect of space
Unfortunately, not fully
In real life even airbattles use more 3d than this one battle — why no ship tries to attack over or under the opposing fleet?
I had this exact same thought. The fact that this picture render the 3D aspect of the battle in my mind only add to the lack of it :
Spaceships seems to have an up and down and seems to face each other as if on a battlefield on earth ^^
Well, the enemy gate is down
This. ↑ Think what you will about the author himself, the thoughts OSC voiced regarding intersellar combat in the Ender series (especially as what was written in Ender’s Shadow) seem sound to me. That, in an environment that can be traveled in all three dimensions, and especially when weapons can be fired at the speed of light, with the accuracy of computers, formations offer far more weaknesses than strengths. Formations group all targets together, increase the possibility of friendly fire, limit your field of view, and only give you one angle to approach any situation. Not to mention that, facing… Read more »
Being able to take advantage of the entirety of the Z axis does not also automatically negate the tactical considerations for fleet formations. In any battle, positioning is key, both for protection and offense. Sure, you can send ships any which way you want, but doing so risks leaving a ship exposed, flanked, not only in danger from enemy ships, but from crossfire from your own forces (if you surrounded them in a sphere, for instance). For capital class ships which are less maneuverable/take more time to turn and reposition, you wouldn’t want to just rush them in to take… Read more »
There’s also the direction that the capitol ships approached the battlezone from. That would limit their choices on how to disperse.
That’s why the rebels were pinned between the Death Star and the Imperial Fleet in Return of the Jedi. The imperials knew what direction the rebels were coming from and positioned their fleet accordingly. If the rebels moved laterally to get out they become more of a target as the chances of the imperials hitting each other in the crossfire lessen.
That’s why head-on confrontations like this can still make sense despite having 3D space to work with.
Although I wonder about the one faction’s ships looking like armadillos and one would think some other designs might be more effective than either of those factions have chosen, I will say the one more important thing: Tim, That’s an amazing page. It’s colourful, it has depth, it has a real sense of motion and conflict, and it balances the background (a fleet engagement) with the cold, smashed cockpit section of a small craft in a very well-executed way. That page draws you into the fleet battle, then drags you out to the thought of being cold, tired, hurt, and… Read more »
HOLY HELL!
SHE SURVIVED?!
Judging from how the craft broke up, and comparing it to Hornets, she might not even have lost pressure to the crew station. She could still have battery power but she would be on emergency oxygen. With battery power one radio could still work, but the antenna(s) might be gone. An emergency signal would be going off with the radio and the actual emergency beacon should be broadcasting as well.
Heyyy… this ain’t July 4th!
I’m not sure if this was a drawing error or intended, but I noticed that one of the Dragalax capital ship has a turret that has its barrels firing in two slightly separate directions. However, considering the projectiles are also heading in separate directions, I have to assume it was a creative decision. With that in mind, I assume that the barrels themselves have independent tracking, and are used to target faster-moving swarms of smaller ships? Anti-fighter? Anti-frigate? Is it a saturation (ie. Flak) weapon? Also to clarify, when I say Barrel, I know that is an extremely loose interpretation… Read more »
If you’re referring to the white/silver one on the upper right, then I’m pretty sure it’s intended. Probably the entire weapon turret pivots on the ball joint, and the two separate barrels independently move and aim on their own joints
There seems to be 3 different kinds of DL ships shown. The 2 that have what appears to be a large “lens” on the front may be a wide beam / short range weapon that requires the ship iself to be pointed in the right direction. Sort of like the “Mauler” in Star Fleet Battles maybe? There’s 4 that look to have most of their weapons mounted on the bow, and 1 bigger ship that has smaller cannons on the sides and some bigger ones on top. More like a dreadnought. All the fed ships are of the same type.… Read more »
Target the Reavers! Target everyone! SOMEBODY FIRE!
Do you have a high res image of this page Tim? Would be a killer background image for my phone.
magnificent!
glad the pilot survived too, though it didn’t feel like she would just go out after an introduction like that.
minor gripe: say one thing about the Dragalax, say they know how to make their ships look awesome! federation’s on the other hand, looks like they commissioned cargo freighters with turrets slapped on ’em ?