The Trickster from DC used to have a field day with the Flash, as did the rest of his rogues gallery. One time he robbed a bank in a dumb truck, Flash arrived and found himself unable to move because said dumb truck had been full of steel ball barings he dumped all over the block. Another time he used a tanker truck full of grease, then another time it was a tanker truck full of tar. Captain Cold would just freeze the ground since ice means no traction and Flash would fly into walls until he learned how to… Read more »
that is dumb, yes, very dumb. when trickster dropped those steel balls, it was dumb. the writers have continuously nerfed and buffed barry just to fit the plot.
he has proven time and time again, he could have picked up ALL OF THOSE steel balls and packed them away before Trickster would be able to move 2ft.
I don’t know if he could have picked them up. Remember in that continuity Barry had his powers for a grand total of like, a few days at most, he was still learning and nowhere near his potential. Also important, the bank was on a street corner, so there was no way for him to see the ball barings as he came around the corner from what I remember. Was it a bit dumb, yes, but against someone who is still figuring out how their powers work and what they can do it makes sense. Barry wasn’t even fast enough… Read more »
I stand corrected on my rebuttal since you were referencing very early Flash, but since we do not yet know Elijah’s level of superspeed it could still apply to him.
Yes, and one time the Flash slipped on an atomic-powered banana peel and flew into space. Another time Deathstroke managed to stab the Flash with his sword because “he’s faster where it counts.” For every good reason a speedster loses, there’s a stupid one.
All those were just plot for plot’s sake. A little bit of knowledge would totally negate them. Let’s take the ball bearings. It would take time for them to start moving due to being interacted with. The same with the grease and tar. He would literally just run right over them. Physics is bitched at superspeed. And let’s not forget ice. He runs over water. The reason we slide on ice is because it turns into water… which he runs over. Many have written on how Flash may well be the most powerful Super Hero out there. They are probably… Read more »
Or another read: Sometimes the people we sympathise with that weren’t bad people in the past aren’t the same person anymore. Character growth isn’t always good.
Or another read: nobody ever should have sympathized with Elijah in the first place. Some of us knew from the first time he appeared that he wasn’t right, that this would never end well.
Weird. This same comment could be made about the political leaders of our cities, and the extreme violence they’ve been enabling in the cities, and the MAGA crew that seem to be fighting them. MAGA seems dedicated to Law and Order, and putting Americans first, but everyone seems to hate them for it. Was it because those idiots on CNN got paid to say that they were bad? What about the people that made the bad policies? Shouldn’t they be hated for what they did? Refusing to fix it? Think they did it without knowing what it would cause?
What laws are they breaking? Why is the figurehead a convicted criminal? If I was a corrupt bastard and someone with an impeccable background was positioning to be my opponent, I would set him up to be slandered and falsely convicted. That’s what you do to people that are truly good when you’re a fraud.
Nightdagger
10 hours ago
Well shit. I was hoping I was right and Elijah wasn’t the one at fault but was only in the area to try and figure out who was.
But nope. Vandalism is one thing…killing is a line that can’t be taken back once it’s been crossed.
Scortch
9 hours ago
The irony of him killing people to stop video game violence is obviously lost on him i see.
This (and the Jedi’s comment) reminded me of part of “The Last Church” Warhammer40K story, featuring a discussion between a to-be Emperor of Mankind (who was in the process of conquering Earth at the time) and a last Catholic priest: The Emperor: It is my dream. An Imperium of Man that exists without recourse to gods and the supernatural. A united galaxy with Terra at its heart. […] These warriors shall be my generals and they will lead my great crusade to the furthest corners of the galaxy. Uriah: Didn’t you just tell me of the bloody slaughters perpetrated by… Read more »
It’s why hypocrisy is found everywhere. “They” are in the wrong so when they die due to their wrong decisions, it’s regrettable, but they have it coming.
I don’t think it is. He’s obviously weighed the options, and gone for violence in the hope to save more children.
We see violence everywhere. From innocent kids shows to blockbuster movies. His has more rationale behind it than most, even though we view it as crooked. Otherwise we can call out any violent action to try to achieve peace as irony. It would only be irony if his actions fail to prevent child deaths.
Let’s not take a too narrow approach here. He’s also murdering gunshop owners. And who knows? Maybe his actions put a spotlight on the violence against kids, and people are actually pushing some legislation through for more gun control and earlier detection of people who might go bad. It might not be directly because of his action, but a success either way. Besides, what are your sources that video games do not make people violent? Not an accusation, but genuinely curious why you propose it. During my psychology studies there were some indicators that video games elicit more violence, though… Read more »
Sounds like you already understand that the problem is lacking mental health care and far too easy access to guns, and yet you’re still trying to justify the absolutely unjustifiable leap to murdering people who sell video games. Like maybe, MAYBE, if Elijah was going after politicians who routinely spew garbage instead of doing their job, thus freeing the seats to elect new politicians who might actually do something, you could argue that he’s got some kind of twisted sense of morality like Deathblood going after criminals the system forgot to handle. But no. Elijah doesn’t even have that going… Read more »
I’m not trying to justify Elijah’s stance at all. I’m at best giving his perspective. At all times I’ve shared your side. I’ve mentioned it is a deplorable and dark thing he’s doing.
Which it already has. His murder count is up in the double digits already. I don’t think that many kids died at the school. But thats an irrelevant trolley problem. It’s generally morally wrong to kill people. Elijah (or whoever) doesn’t get to make those decisions on his own, only a society can.
It is generally morally wrong. As I mentioned I fully agree. I even think that at times people celebrate lethal violence, like when Ethan was trying to stop a psychopath from murdering criminals. I was against those murders, but the votes showed few were like-minded. I’m just trying to ask the question, at what point is murder acceptable? Fir Elijah it might even be that killing 50 people, that according to him aid a system that kills kids, is worth it if a single innocent life is saved. Where would you draw the line? Because i real life this choice… Read more »
Last edited 4 hours ago by Darkhorse
Daniel
9 hours ago
Well, bummer. Yet it’s nice to see that a solved the whole “can’t monologue with a mask” thing before becoming a supervillain
Jedi
9 hours ago
I say the whole world need to learn our peaceful ways – by violence !
Oyee
8 hours ago
Well, that’s a bummer.
Jonny
8 hours ago
If he’s changing his views and engaging in violence now, then he’ll want to hide his identity also so as not to get caught and keep doing what he’s doing. I suggest the name ‘Speedrun’ to keep with the video game theming.
He sees the games as evil, so, if he picks a name at all, I think it’s unlikely to be gaming related. Maybe Ethan would give him one like that, if he is in the mood to, which he might not, given the circumstances.
Steve
8 hours ago
Rather unclear how they stop him given how he’s pretty much neutralized them both in under 10 seconds, which not even Zeke could do.
The hypocrisy of stopping murder sprees with a murder spree might work, but… is he in any mindframe to listen?
Is it hypocrisy? Imagine having a choice to kill several people that are aiding a system that kills kids. At what point does murdering adults who consciously or unconsciously made their choice to partake in that system weigh up against the deaths of kids?
Journey before destination. A purely utilitarian philosophy would justify killing with raw calculus. “Break 32 laws, kill 12 people, and save 157 lives. Net positive. Allowed.” But utilitarian systems in the hands of flawed humans end up turning ingrained biases into a box of nails begging for a hammer. Because they unfortunately end up spiraling into “Sure there is a no-deaths way, but it is more difficult, and I could kill these 2 right now to guarantee the safety of that 6; net positive; allowed.” Which, by its own admission, is 2 more deaths than is strictly required. That takes… Read more »
Thanks for the ideas. Not an attack, but the philosophy seems flawed. Even though I’m against killing, murder, and violence in general, sadly I think it is necessary at times. We see our heroes apply it often enough. How about an active school shooter? Shoot to kill that school shooter, protect innocent lives. It seems a deal you take. How about a guy that’s not active, but you know he’s not going to stop practices that kill innocent people? What are the maximum steps to undertake there? Would it be sanctioned to act violently, maim or even kill them? Do… Read more »
Note that I said that you are restricted, not forbidden. The tricky part gets to be the “through unjust means” portion. Killing a video game shopkeeper, someone who isn’t guilty of killing others, is not a viable solution under this philosophy. Conversely, killing the active shooter to put an end to the spree would be allowed (though only if there wasn’t a less lethal solution available). This particular outlook allows, but measures, the use of force (up to and including lethal force) employed by an actor onto others. So direct action against a direct (and active) threat is one thing.… Read more »
This line of terrible thinking is how people like Luigi Mangione can kill someone like the United HealthCare CEO Brian Thompson and feel justified. And the horrible people who cheer Mangione for that action.
Yeah originally he says the insurance replaces what he burns, and then some point how the accidental death didn’t matter because this is how he gets his point across or something. This version makes him seem much more menacing and irrational than the first one, where he seemed more like a broken soul who went down a bad path.
Nealithi
3 hours ago
Ethan was talking him down. Rationalizing with him.
And the usually rational Lucas just decides to take the shot.
Between this and the bomb in Zeke’s head I think Ethan is going to get Batman’s paranoia about his allies.
Forest Trout
3 hours ago
Did the last panel change?
Number51x
2 hours ago
Huh. I did not expect it to be this simple. It is a comic after all.
It’s a well-written comic. Not every story needs a random twist, at times a simpler one can be compelling already.
And it does actually make the situation a lot more complex. People do know Elijah, he can, or at least could be, empathized with. Having to take him down now anyway hurts. Especially since these murders might’ve even been prevented, if they had handled things differently last time. That’s a lot more interesting than this just being Random Evil Dude #29, a clear baddie to take out without any further moral implications.
The Riddler
2 hours ago
The core issue – as I said previously – is the mentally disturbed. People who are prone to radicalization (regardless of what spectrum of motive comprises the excuse architecture) will find a path forward to perpetrate an evil action. The trick is to be able to identify and treat these cases before they are too far gone. That’s a challenge because the line between “kook frothing at the mouth online” and “mass murderer” tends to be thin and short. 99.999999% of people can (and do) say angry crud online on a semi-regular basis and never step anywhere near thinking about… Read more »
jonathan corbett
1 hour ago
They have NO means to stop him. A speedster, written realistically, is unstoppable by definition. He’s not perceiving himself moving fast, he’s seeing the entire world moving slowly. So, he can do delicate tasks at the speed of sound, while you’re just BARELY registering the finger flick that gave you a concussion.
Hm – well what if Lucas makes his arrows appear in a ‘tent’ around Elijah? A tent small enough that he can’t run or build momentum would hold him in place. Targeting him would be hard of course but if Elijah can’t phase through matter (or energy … whatever the arrows are made of) then it would be a way to stop him.
24
maybe finally people will stop saying “it’s a copycat!” Sometimes the simplest answer is the correct one.
No wait! I got a more exotic theory! Hear me out…
…the ghost of his brother inhabits him at times?
Also, how the fuck do you fight superheros with superspeed? You gotta hope they make a colossally stupid mistake.
The Trickster from DC used to have a field day with the Flash, as did the rest of his rogues gallery. One time he robbed a bank in a dumb truck, Flash arrived and found himself unable to move because said dumb truck had been full of steel ball barings he dumped all over the block. Another time he used a tanker truck full of grease, then another time it was a tanker truck full of tar. Captain Cold would just freeze the ground since ice means no traction and Flash would fly into walls until he learned how to… Read more »
that is dumb, yes, very dumb. when trickster dropped those steel balls, it was dumb. the writers have continuously nerfed and buffed barry just to fit the plot.
he has proven time and time again, he could have picked up ALL OF THOSE steel balls and packed them away before Trickster would be able to move 2ft.
I don’t know if he could have picked them up. Remember in that continuity Barry had his powers for a grand total of like, a few days at most, he was still learning and nowhere near his potential. Also important, the bank was on a street corner, so there was no way for him to see the ball barings as he came around the corner from what I remember. Was it a bit dumb, yes, but against someone who is still figuring out how their powers work and what they can do it makes sense. Barry wasn’t even fast enough… Read more »
I stand corrected on my rebuttal since you were referencing very early Flash, but since we do not yet know Elijah’s level of superspeed it could still apply to him.
Yes, and one time the Flash slipped on an atomic-powered banana peel and flew into space. Another time Deathstroke managed to stab the Flash with his sword because “he’s faster where it counts.” For every good reason a speedster loses, there’s a stupid one.
All those were just plot for plot’s sake. A little bit of knowledge would totally negate them. Let’s take the ball bearings. It would take time for them to start moving due to being interacted with. The same with the grease and tar. He would literally just run right over them. Physics is bitched at superspeed. And let’s not forget ice. He runs over water. The reason we slide on ice is because it turns into water… which he runs over. Many have written on how Flash may well be the most powerful Super Hero out there. They are probably… Read more »
Well, they do know a guy who can pause things… Who also happen to go by the name of a video game? Seems to be a perfect fit here!
A Captain perhaps?
They should have brought Game Boy. One little touch and Elijah is done.
Although that’s quite OP and would be a boring story, wouldn’t it?
On the other hand, the idea of a child video game super hero out there doing good for people might be something to help Elijah see how wrong he is.
Damn
Well, sometimes we wish the people we sympathise with aren´t the bad ones, right? Damnit.
Or another read: Sometimes the people we sympathise with that weren’t bad people in the past aren’t the same person anymore. Character growth isn’t always good.
Or another read: nobody ever should have sympathized with Elijah in the first place. Some of us knew from the first time he appeared that he wasn’t right, that this would never end well.
No. You ALWAYS try because the one time you don’t could have been the one you saved.
Weird. This same comment could be made about the political leaders of our cities, and the extreme violence they’ve been enabling in the cities, and the MAGA crew that seem to be fighting them. MAGA seems dedicated to Law and Order, and putting Americans first, but everyone seems to hate them for it. Was it because those idiots on CNN got paid to say that they were bad? What about the people that made the bad policies? Shouldn’t they be hated for what they did? Refusing to fix it? Think they did it without knowing what it would cause?
If MAGA is for the Rule of Law… why are they breaking the Law to do what they want? Why is the figurehead a convicted criminal?
Wouldn’t they want someone who is truly good and not a fraud?
What laws are they breaking? Why is the figurehead a convicted criminal? If I was a corrupt bastard and someone with an impeccable background was positioning to be my opponent, I would set him up to be slandered and falsely convicted. That’s what you do to people that are truly good when you’re a fraud.
Well shit. I was hoping I was right and Elijah wasn’t the one at fault but was only in the area to try and figure out who was.
But nope. Vandalism is one thing…killing is a line that can’t be taken back once it’s been crossed.
The irony of him killing people to stop video game violence is obviously lost on him i see.
This (and the Jedi’s comment) reminded me of part of “The Last Church” Warhammer40K story, featuring a discussion between a to-be Emperor of Mankind (who was in the process of conquering Earth at the time) and a last Catholic priest: The Emperor: It is my dream. An Imperium of Man that exists without recourse to gods and the supernatural. A united galaxy with Terra at its heart. […] These warriors shall be my generals and they will lead my great crusade to the furthest corners of the galaxy. Uriah: Didn’t you just tell me of the bloody slaughters perpetrated by… Read more »
Reminds me of the people protesting violence in video games in the beginning of Postal 2.
It’s why hypocrisy is found everywhere. “They” are in the wrong so when they die due to their wrong decisions, it’s regrettable, but they have it coming.
I don’t think it is. He’s obviously weighed the options, and gone for violence in the hope to save more children.
We see violence everywhere. From innocent kids shows to blockbuster movies. His has more rationale behind it than most, even though we view it as crooked. Otherwise we can call out any violent action to try to achieve peace as irony. It would only be irony if his actions fail to prevent child deaths.
Which it ultimately will…. because video games dont make people violent.
Let’s not take a too narrow approach here. He’s also murdering gunshop owners. And who knows? Maybe his actions put a spotlight on the violence against kids, and people are actually pushing some legislation through for more gun control and earlier detection of people who might go bad. It might not be directly because of his action, but a success either way. Besides, what are your sources that video games do not make people violent? Not an accusation, but genuinely curious why you propose it. During my psychology studies there were some indicators that video games elicit more violence, though… Read more »
Sounds like you already understand that the problem is lacking mental health care and far too easy access to guns, and yet you’re still trying to justify the absolutely unjustifiable leap to murdering people who sell video games. Like maybe, MAYBE, if Elijah was going after politicians who routinely spew garbage instead of doing their job, thus freeing the seats to elect new politicians who might actually do something, you could argue that he’s got some kind of twisted sense of morality like Deathblood going after criminals the system forgot to handle. But no. Elijah doesn’t even have that going… Read more »
I’m not trying to justify Elijah’s stance at all. I’m at best giving his perspective. At all times I’ve shared your side. I’ve mentioned it is a deplorable and dark thing he’s doing.
Gunshop owners aren’t responsible for what people do once the gun is purchased.
Which it already has. His murder count is up in the double digits already. I don’t think that many kids died at the school. But thats an irrelevant trolley problem. It’s generally morally wrong to kill people. Elijah (or whoever) doesn’t get to make those decisions on his own, only a society can.
It is generally morally wrong. As I mentioned I fully agree. I even think that at times people celebrate lethal violence, like when Ethan was trying to stop a psychopath from murdering criminals. I was against those murders, but the votes showed few were like-minded. I’m just trying to ask the question, at what point is murder acceptable? Fir Elijah it might even be that killing 50 people, that according to him aid a system that kills kids, is worth it if a single innocent life is saved. Where would you draw the line? Because i real life this choice… Read more »
Well, bummer. Yet it’s nice to see that a solved the whole “can’t monologue with a mask” thing before becoming a supervillain
I say the whole world need to learn our peaceful ways – by violence !
Well, that’s a bummer.
If he’s changing his views and engaging in violence now, then he’ll want to hide his identity also so as not to get caught and keep doing what he’s doing. I suggest the name ‘Speedrun’ to keep with the video game theming.
He sees the games as evil, so, if he picks a name at all, I think it’s unlikely to be gaming related. Maybe Ethan would give him one like that, if he is in the mood to, which he might not, given the circumstances.
Rather unclear how they stop him given how he’s pretty much neutralized them both in under 10 seconds, which not even Zeke could do.
The hypocrisy of stopping murder sprees with a murder spree might work, but… is he in any mindframe to listen?
Is it hypocrisy? Imagine having a choice to kill several people that are aiding a system that kills kids. At what point does murdering adults who consciously or unconsciously made their choice to partake in that system weigh up against the deaths of kids?
Journey before destination. A purely utilitarian philosophy would justify killing with raw calculus. “Break 32 laws, kill 12 people, and save 157 lives. Net positive. Allowed.” But utilitarian systems in the hands of flawed humans end up turning ingrained biases into a box of nails begging for a hammer. Because they unfortunately end up spiraling into “Sure there is a no-deaths way, but it is more difficult, and I could kill these 2 right now to guarantee the safety of that 6; net positive; allowed.” Which, by its own admission, is 2 more deaths than is strictly required. That takes… Read more »
Thanks for the ideas. Not an attack, but the philosophy seems flawed. Even though I’m against killing, murder, and violence in general, sadly I think it is necessary at times. We see our heroes apply it often enough. How about an active school shooter? Shoot to kill that school shooter, protect innocent lives. It seems a deal you take. How about a guy that’s not active, but you know he’s not going to stop practices that kill innocent people? What are the maximum steps to undertake there? Would it be sanctioned to act violently, maim or even kill them? Do… Read more »
Note that I said that you are restricted, not forbidden. The tricky part gets to be the “through unjust means” portion. Killing a video game shopkeeper, someone who isn’t guilty of killing others, is not a viable solution under this philosophy. Conversely, killing the active shooter to put an end to the spree would be allowed (though only if there wasn’t a less lethal solution available). This particular outlook allows, but measures, the use of force (up to and including lethal force) employed by an actor onto others. So direct action against a direct (and active) threat is one thing.… Read more »
This line of terrible thinking is how people like Luigi Mangione can kill someone like the United HealthCare CEO Brian Thompson and feel justified. And the horrible people who cheer Mangione for that action.
Well, if you go back a few episodes… Another hero that goes by a video game name seems to be a perfect fit to stop this guy!
Oh no.
And I was certain that he would be a victim in this. Something had happened and he wasn’t truly behind it all.
I guess we were all just witnesses to a villain origin story. :/
It shows how convoluted storytelling in general has got that playing the protestor becomes a genuine bad guy straight without twists feels fresh again
Did the dialog in the last panel change since this was posted? I think it used to say something about insurance.
I think you’re right, it has changed.
Yeah originally he says the insurance replaces what he burns, and then some point how the accidental death didn’t matter because this is how he gets his point across or something. This version makes him seem much more menacing and irrational than the first one, where he seemed more like a broken soul who went down a bad path.
Ethan was talking him down. Rationalizing with him.
And the usually rational Lucas just decides to take the shot.
Between this and the bomb in Zeke’s head I think Ethan is going to get Batman’s paranoia about his allies.
Did the last panel change?
Huh. I did not expect it to be this simple. It is a comic after all.
It’s a well-written comic. Not every story needs a random twist, at times a simpler one can be compelling already.
And it does actually make the situation a lot more complex. People do know Elijah, he can, or at least could be, empathized with. Having to take him down now anyway hurts. Especially since these murders might’ve even been prevented, if they had handled things differently last time. That’s a lot more interesting than this just being Random Evil Dude #29, a clear baddie to take out without any further moral implications.
The core issue – as I said previously – is the mentally disturbed. People who are prone to radicalization (regardless of what spectrum of motive comprises the excuse architecture) will find a path forward to perpetrate an evil action. The trick is to be able to identify and treat these cases before they are too far gone. That’s a challenge because the line between “kook frothing at the mouth online” and “mass murderer” tends to be thin and short. 99.999999% of people can (and do) say angry crud online on a semi-regular basis and never step anywhere near thinking about… Read more »
They have NO means to stop him. A speedster, written realistically, is unstoppable by definition. He’s not perceiving himself moving fast, he’s seeing the entire world moving slowly. So, he can do delicate tasks at the speed of sound, while you’re just BARELY registering the finger flick that gave you a concussion.
Hm – well what if Lucas makes his arrows appear in a ‘tent’ around Elijah? A tent small enough that he can’t run or build momentum would hold him in place. Targeting him would be hard of course but if Elijah can’t phase through matter (or energy … whatever the arrows are made of) then it would be a way to stop him.