Just realized I haven’t read this in a couple weeks due to work, classes, sleep 3 hrs, repeat. Felt awesome to catch up!
Gareth Hughes
4 years ago
If thats an emp, this is a double standard. Unless lucas is willing to kill (under certain circumstances i.e. ethan in danger) a human, don’t emp a sentient ai.
You are assuming an EMP will permanently destroy Zeke et al vs only temporarily disable them.
Also Lucas may not believe this AI or ANY AI is equivalent to a living being, and/or that it is truly self aware and not just a highly sophisticated program that effectively mimics awareness.
In other words there is a whole lot of assumptions you have to make before this becomes equivalent to killing a human.
id think its the equivalent of knocking it out, anyway emp can temporairly or permenently dmg electronics id think scott is smart enough to controill that
A real EMP powerful enough to “Knock Out” electronics in its radius would normaly melt some of the delicate components. they literally induce current in the small wires and connections that exceed the voltage/current they are designed to take. takes more than cyceling the power to get them working agian (major repairs/replacement of componants needed)
Then agian this is a super hero Bullshitium EMP so the normal rules of physics may not apply and it could just stun him instead.
or puts it into a fritz, then he’ll be discarded by “master”, then he’ll wake up realizing he was discarded but the killswitch keeps on fritzing out, then he tries to find ethan and see if he was telling the truth about the friend who can help him, then when they do he disappears to think about what to do with his new found freedom and possible new friends.
Mmkay, let’s put this to bed once and for all, shall we? 😉 Just because he’s a robot does not mean he gets to have automatically infallible aim. He is not firing an instananeous weapon like a laser, or even a super fast one like a bullet, and he is not shooting at stationary targets. In a game of darts, he could probably hit the bullseye nearly every time. He could calculate distance to the target, trajectory, weight of projectile, etc, all toward a target that has not moved. However, if that dart board is moving while those calculations are… Read more »
That’s totally not true. https://www.britannica.com/science/uncertainty-principle Ordinary experience provides no clue of this principle. It is easy to measure both the position and the velocity of, say, an automobile, because the uncertainties implied by this principle for ordinary objects are too small to be observed. The complete rule stipulates that the product of the uncertainties in position and velocity is equal to or greater than a tiny physical quantity, or constant (h/(4π), where h is Planck’s constant, or about 6.6 × 10−34 joule-second). Only for the exceedingly small masses of atoms and subatomic particles does the product of the uncertainties become… Read more »
Considering Zeke was a Xbox repurposed into being a killing machine and is using ninja weapons, his accuracy can’t be that great in the first place since he wasn’t designed as a killing machine and is using inferior weapons that can only travel so fast so that leaves a better chance for people to dodge. If he was using guns then He’d probably be more accurate I think.
I do think an AI designed specifically to be a killing machine and given better weapons like guns, then he’d be a lot more accurate than Zeke ever could though.
Ot to put it in simpler terms – Zeke is a robot made with limited resources, and a whole lot of those resources went into making him a walking, talking humanoid, _not_ an auto-targeting weapon turret.
Sure the latter exists, and just think about the engineering that goes into the balancing and gimbal-controlling motors to achieve near-instantaneous precise movement, all from the advantage of a fixed stationary base in terms of relative mass (and never mind the data collection and processing to decide where to move in the first place).
Not exactly how human arms and torsos work, is it?
My 3d printer is controlled by a far far less advanced CPU and yet it’s able to control the acceleration of the printing head accurately. It’s just a matter of pulsing a bunch of line and counting.
Zeke is standing still in a well-known distance throwing his well-known spear at a standing target. He has all the data in place to select the correct fuzzy tables to (not) modify his aim.
Also: If he wasn’t able to throw, he’d not be able to jump from one place to the next either. Same problem, a slight breeze would make him fall if he couldn’t do that.
A 3D printer is nothing like a throwing machine. A 3D printer’s target is stationary, the print head is typically attached to two perpendicular rail systems so it can precisely measure where in 2D space the head is (the rails act as rulers), and a third track moves the whole 2D track system up and down very precisely (again, like a using a ruler). To more accurately approximate how difficult throwing is vs traveling on a rail system, your 3D printer needs to be more like a Super Soaker that you can point at any surface between 1 and 100… Read more »
I added a follow-up to my short comment, but that didn’t show yet. let’s try again. Zeke and his target are stationary and there is no wind. He needs to chose a path from the distance and the force he chooses to use (lower arc) on the known weight and shape. That’s _just like moving the print head along a path (Zeke’s hand) and releasing filament / opening the hand. He’ll have fuzzy logic to control for wind, for moving targets and for his own movement, but _these_ are approximate. Zeke needs to have the same logic for jumping. Thus… Read more »
As someone who also owns a 3D printer and has experienced Z-axis drift… no, even 3D printers – singularly focused at one task, precision – don’t always get it right.
Something with more calculations isn’t necessarily going to be better than the object with less calculations.
Oh yeah. That video where it was so hard to do that a former NASA engineer took 3 years to overcome all the challenges and finally get it to work. If that video proves anything, it’s that it’s even more difficult than you think. Also, that video is about coding a target to move into the line of fire and be struck. Not at all the same thing as coding a machine to hit an unpredictable moving target every time. Coding the latter would be even harder than coding the former, and as established above, coding the former was already… Read more »
It’s a fair assumption that, if you could build Z, you could trivially overcome the challenge of hitting a moving dartboard, but that isn’t a good example. The catch is that–in reality, when dealing with different agents–the motion can’t be predicted very well, and there isn’t a clear way to easily gather all needed data quickly, accurately, from a single platform. Think of a dart board that is moving randomly in an environment that can’t be perfectly modeled. With a good theory-of-mind, which presumably Z(being sentient himself) has to some degree, you could likely make some pretty good assumptions about… Read more »
I think you’re severely underestimating the complexity of the problem. You’re right that the equations for a (consistently) moving target aren’t all that difficult to solve, but that’s only a fraction of what’s necessary (and arguably the easiest part). A much bigger hurdle is correctly determining the exact equations necessary, especially for objects/targets that don’t follow a neatly predictable (and thus calculable) trajectory. And the tons of calculations to properly position to hit the target on that trajectory (as well as the tons of calculations to properly aim his projectile at that location). All of that (and actually moving his… Read more »
While I know this is literally an explanation from the creator above me here: he also did say he was giving him a chance, he’d be bored if he took d pad out in one shot without giving the chance to fight back, he’s not a human hunting prey, he’s a robot that makes witty retort, he NEEDS humans to talk back to.
Actually, it’s quite difficult to engineer a device to throw objects with any accuracy. As humans, we think it shouldn’t be that hard to do, but that’s because we’re biased by our biology. See https://scholar.harvard.edu/ntroach/evolution-throwing From the article, “We are unique among all animals in our ability to throw projectiles at high speeds and with incredible accuracy.” Even robots built to throw something accurately can only throw one particular object. Give a robot that can nail a 3-pointer with a basketball a baseball. Or a stick. Or anything other than a basketball. It will miss, very very poorly. Or just… Read more »
24
Good ol’ Lucas has got his priorities straight.
Just realized I haven’t read this in a couple weeks due to work, classes, sleep 3 hrs, repeat. Felt awesome to catch up!
If thats an emp, this is a double standard. Unless lucas is willing to kill (under certain circumstances i.e. ethan in danger) a human, don’t emp a sentient ai.
You are assuming an EMP will permanently destroy Zeke et al vs only temporarily disable them.
Also Lucas may not believe this AI or ANY AI is equivalent to a living being, and/or that it is truly self aware and not just a highly sophisticated program that effectively mimics awareness.
In other words there is a whole lot of assumptions you have to make before this becomes equivalent to killing a human.
id think its the equivalent of knocking it out, anyway emp can temporairly or permenently dmg electronics id think scott is smart enough to controill that
You’re 2 years late with this complaint, my dude
https://cad-comic.com/comic/analog-and-d-pad-05-21/
Geez, that’s 2 years ago already?
Man, time goes fast ?
And EMP to Zeke would be like a ‘knockout’ to a human.
A real EMP powerful enough to “Knock Out” electronics in its radius would normaly melt some of the delicate components. they literally induce current in the small wires and connections that exceed the voltage/current they are designed to take. takes more than cyceling the power to get them working agian (major repairs/replacement of componants needed)
Then agian this is a super hero Bullshitium EMP so the normal rules of physics may not apply and it could just stun him instead.
Everyone forgetting that Zeke has already been hit by a much bigger EMP blast?
https://cad-comic.com/comic/analog-and-d-pad-05-21/
What’s the betting odds that x-bot here has shielding from EMPs now?
Yeah I was thinking the same thing.
Or X01 just plain dodged. The smaller EMP’s look to be much shorter range.
I know this would be far too cheesy and cliche and probably a lame cop-out, but my other thought was “Imagine if this shorts out the killswitch.”
I love cliche.
or puts it into a fritz, then he’ll be discarded by “master”, then he’ll wake up realizing he was discarded but the killswitch keeps on fritzing out, then he tries to find ethan and see if he was telling the truth about the friend who can help him, then when they do he disappears to think about what to do with his new found freedom and possible new friends.
From a post above, shielding is verified:
https://cad-comic.com/comic/analog-and-d-pad-05-21/
For a robot, he really has terrible aim. But then I guess plot armor has to be a bit thick unless Tim is ready to kill off a main character.
Mmkay, let’s put this to bed once and for all, shall we? 😉 Just because he’s a robot does not mean he gets to have automatically infallible aim. He is not firing an instananeous weapon like a laser, or even a super fast one like a bullet, and he is not shooting at stationary targets. In a game of darts, he could probably hit the bullseye nearly every time. He could calculate distance to the target, trajectory, weight of projectile, etc, all toward a target that has not moved. However, if that dart board is moving while those calculations are… Read more »
True, see Heisenberg; the position and the velocity of an object cannot both be measured exactly, at the same time, even in theory.
That’s totally not true. https://www.britannica.com/science/uncertainty-principle Ordinary experience provides no clue of this principle. It is easy to measure both the position and the velocity of, say, an automobile, because the uncertainties implied by this principle for ordinary objects are too small to be observed. The complete rule stipulates that the product of the uncertainties in position and velocity is equal to or greater than a tiny physical quantity, or constant (h/(4π), where h is Planck’s constant, or about 6.6 × 10−34 joule-second). Only for the exceedingly small masses of atoms and subatomic particles does the product of the uncertainties become… Read more »
Considering Zeke was a Xbox repurposed into being a killing machine and is using ninja weapons, his accuracy can’t be that great in the first place since he wasn’t designed as a killing machine and is using inferior weapons that can only travel so fast so that leaves a better chance for people to dodge. If he was using guns then He’d probably be more accurate I think.
I do think an AI designed specifically to be a killing machine and given better weapons like guns, then he’d be a lot more accurate than Zeke ever could though.
I highly doubt Weebmaster built X01 out of an Xbox, considering how the Xbox 360 is what inspired his stupidity in the first place.
Ot to put it in simpler terms – Zeke is a robot made with limited resources, and a whole lot of those resources went into making him a walking, talking humanoid, _not_ an auto-targeting weapon turret.
Sure the latter exists, and just think about the engineering that goes into the balancing and gimbal-controlling motors to achieve near-instantaneous precise movement, all from the advantage of a fixed stationary base in terms of relative mass (and never mind the data collection and processing to decide where to move in the first place).
Not exactly how human arms and torsos work, is it?
My 3d printer is controlled by a far far less advanced CPU and yet it’s able to control the acceleration of the printing head accurately. It’s just a matter of pulsing a bunch of line and counting.
Zeke is standing still in a well-known distance throwing his well-known spear at a standing target. He has all the data in place to select the correct fuzzy tables to (not) modify his aim.
Also: If he wasn’t able to throw, he’d not be able to jump from one place to the next either. Same problem, a slight breeze would make him fall if he couldn’t do that.
A 3D printer is nothing like a throwing machine. A 3D printer’s target is stationary, the print head is typically attached to two perpendicular rail systems so it can precisely measure where in 2D space the head is (the rails act as rulers), and a third track moves the whole 2D track system up and down very precisely (again, like a using a ruler). To more accurately approximate how difficult throwing is vs traveling on a rail system, your 3D printer needs to be more like a Super Soaker that you can point at any surface between 1 and 100… Read more »
I added a follow-up to my short comment, but that didn’t show yet. let’s try again. Zeke and his target are stationary and there is no wind. He needs to chose a path from the distance and the force he chooses to use (lower arc) on the known weight and shape. That’s _just like moving the print head along a path (Zeke’s hand) and releasing filament / opening the hand. He’ll have fuzzy logic to control for wind, for moving targets and for his own movement, but _these_ are approximate. Zeke needs to have the same logic for jumping. Thus… Read more »
As someone who also owns a 3D printer and has experienced Z-axis drift… no, even 3D printers – singularly focused at one task, precision – don’t always get it right.
Something with more calculations isn’t necessarily going to be better than the object with less calculations.
It’s interesting that you mention a moving dart board. The equations to figure out a moving target aren’t as difficult as you think.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHTizZ_XcUM
Oh yeah. That video where it was so hard to do that a former NASA engineer took 3 years to overcome all the challenges and finally get it to work. If that video proves anything, it’s that it’s even more difficult than you think. Also, that video is about coding a target to move into the line of fire and be struck. Not at all the same thing as coding a machine to hit an unpredictable moving target every time. Coding the latter would be even harder than coding the former, and as established above, coding the former was already… Read more »
It’s a fair assumption that, if you could build Z, you could trivially overcome the challenge of hitting a moving dartboard, but that isn’t a good example. The catch is that–in reality, when dealing with different agents–the motion can’t be predicted very well, and there isn’t a clear way to easily gather all needed data quickly, accurately, from a single platform. Think of a dart board that is moving randomly in an environment that can’t be perfectly modeled. With a good theory-of-mind, which presumably Z(being sentient himself) has to some degree, you could likely make some pretty good assumptions about… Read more »
I think you’re severely underestimating the complexity of the problem. You’re right that the equations for a (consistently) moving target aren’t all that difficult to solve, but that’s only a fraction of what’s necessary (and arguably the easiest part). A much bigger hurdle is correctly determining the exact equations necessary, especially for objects/targets that don’t follow a neatly predictable (and thus calculable) trajectory. And the tons of calculations to properly position to hit the target on that trajectory (as well as the tons of calculations to properly aim his projectile at that location). All of that (and actually moving his… Read more »
Of course, that does raise the question of why he wasn’t given a gun.
Because his master has a Japanese culture fetish and made him into a ninja essentially and has him using weapons samurai or ninja would use.
While I know this is literally an explanation from the creator above me here: he also did say he was giving him a chance, he’d be bored if he took d pad out in one shot without giving the chance to fight back, he’s not a human hunting prey, he’s a robot that makes witty retort, he NEEDS humans to talk back to.
I assumed that he wanted to close the door.
Actually, it’s quite difficult to engineer a device to throw objects with any accuracy. As humans, we think it shouldn’t be that hard to do, but that’s because we’re biased by our biology. See https://scholar.harvard.edu/ntroach/evolution-throwing From the article, “We are unique among all animals in our ability to throw projectiles at high speeds and with incredible accuracy.” Even robots built to throw something accurately can only throw one particular object. Give a robot that can nail a 3-pointer with a basketball a baseball. Or a stick. Or anything other than a basketball. It will miss, very very poorly. Or just… Read more »
I agree. It harder to code him a free will than a perfect aim imho
That looks very much like it did not work.
Anyone else thinking Lucas should just kill Ethan so he respawns at full health and can help with his own escape?
Harsh, but practical.
Is that Ethan?
……Is that a Poke ball?
am i the only one seeing emp + bomb that must receive cancel signal = bad times coming
It was described as a killswitch, not a bomb. The killswitch could be as simple as X01 getting his SSD/hard drive formatted.
At least Zeke would have a bad time.
Oh come on, that is so not going to work a second time.
Yeah, Zeke’s going to flatten Lucas in the next frame. “I got that little glitch patched, idiot.”
I’m gonna guess the EMP doesn’t work and we find out something crazy about the Zeke-bot.