Oh hell no, the guy that kicks my dog and cracks their skull? While not even being penetant about it afterwards and even proud of it? Can get the hell away from me. Being afraid is one of thing, plotting to kill someone I care about behind my back with my best friend? Yeah that’s “fuck off” territory. Especially if they can’t admit afterwards that it was their fear talking and that they were wrong. Heck the fucker is even proud of it. I know people that are afraid of dogs, spiders and wasps to a illogical degree.. like really… Read more »
he never seemed proud to me, more justified. like if someone who was terrified of dogs kicked a dog that was running toward them because they thought it was trying to attack them, and refused to believe it just wanted to play. I’m not saying he WAS justified, but motive DOES matter
He’s not proud, he’s justified. If my neighbor had a dog with a history of attacking and mauling people, that continued to threaten to attack and maul people, I’d be very forcefully telling him to put it down. It is a risk to others. His “I am rehabilitating it” excuse is noble but weak compared to the risk the dog is to others. And regardless of his feelings, if that dog got loose and ran towards the children in the neighborhood then I’d put it down myself. And would feel entirely justified in doing so. I’d be sad, sure, and… Read more »
That’s the thing with basically all media though. We only see the story from the eyes of the heroes, so we feel their actions are “right” even though they might not be. For example, I recently rewatched Iron Man 2. Throughout the movie, Tony causes millions, maybe billions of property damage and needlessly endangers countless lives, just so there can be explosions. He could have just flown higher, lured the drones away from the city, but he didn’t. But we, as the audience still see him as the hero and don’t question his actions there at all. It got so… Read more »
I think you’re running the analogy into the ground. Unlike the dog Zeke is sentient. That’s both good and bad for him for Scott. Sentient beings get rights that dogs don’t, but also certain responsibilities. Every time someone came in that room Zeke announced his intention to kill or enslave all humans. I don’t agree with what Scott did, but he didn’t just crack the skull of some innocent dog for no reason.
Well, no. Dogs are smarter than most people think, sure – but anywhere near the level of a fictional robot named Zeke? C’mon dude, dogs and fully sentient/self-aware fictional robots are on entirely different levels of ‘sentience’, and you really can’t compare the two.
You show me a dog capable of fully recognizing and emulating human behavior and thought patterns, then we could talk.
People are driven by instinct as well. And while Dogs are by nature a ‘pack animal’, they ARE self-aware. Otherwise you’d never see one dog walk right across a road, while a 2nd stops and looks both directions before following the first across. And i mean this in a literal sense, we use to have a lab that would NOT run across a road, he’d stop at the edge, tilt his head to either side ‘listening’, before he’d cross. And he wasn’t just mimicking us, we caught him refusing to cross a road before till a few seconds later a… Read more »
You’re also missing “After the dog, who had been trained as a killer, tried to murder them….twice….and spent a lot of it’s time acting like it would do it again and was proud of it.” Since we’re talking about dogs, you might want to see the Channing Tatum movie Dog for a lighter tone on the dog thing but, even after it stopped becoming official military policy to put down dogs after their terms of service and every effort is made to rehabilitate the dog, some dogs have suffered too much PTSD to be safely rehabilitated back into society. Getting… Read more »
Last edited 8 months ago by Pyre
Austindorf
8 months ago
A different point of view from an external person can be fundamental
foducool
8 months ago
put things into perspective, huh?
ThatGuy
8 months ago
Times like these I wish Sam would be brought into the fold. Yeah, he’s the “Eager Young Space Cadet” to Ethan’s “Duck Dodgers” (so to speak), but it’s clear his heart is in the right place and his views are beneficial.
Also, kudos to bringing this chapter’s title to sense in this page! Until now I was expecting SCOTT to do the biting.
Another name for a sub – though typically a hero is the plain jane cold cut sub with the typical lettuce, tomato cheese and mayo
FireballDragon
8 months ago
Phobias can be so strong, they override good judgement. I’m sure many of us know that.
Dehnus
8 months ago
Yeah, but your mom didn’t kick the dog nor try to blow it’s brains out. After scheming with your other friend to do so if it ever got out of the doghouse. Then when she didn’t succeed to kill the dog, while the dogs skull was cracked open? Tried to keep kicking it and even afterwards didn’t want to admit that she did wrong, and that it was her fear talking. Infact she seems proud of it and doubles down to her other friend trying to talk reason. Your mom didn’t do any of that, nor is she proud of… Read more »
The problem where you lost your analogy is the part where the dog isn’t just a normal dog but a dog that “his mom” thinks could kill all mankind if let loose.
Also, I suggest you take a deep breath and don’t take this *so* serious. The anger emanating from your post is so strong, you could feed a couple of Sith lords with it.
Do not take too seriously the dog/Zeke analogy. It is a good one, but also not accurate (if you look too much into the details) because the heroes cannot communicate with a dog in the same way they could do with Zeke. Ethan could understand Zeke to a level that is impossible wth a dog that came out of nowhere.
Nono
8 months ago
If Sam can get Ethan to look at things from a different perspective, then maybe that’s the greatest superpower of all.
Sam’s mom also doesn’t have someone who insisted that a dog had to stay in her house. It’s not about who’s the biggest asshole, it’s about understanding motivations, and that phobias can be rooted so deeply that they blow past illogical and go all the way into mania.
Except this particular “dog” said, and is capable of, and could be willing to “bite” all you ever loved, and every living person he will put his hands – er, paws – on.
Like BaufenBeast said, it’s all about motivation, and the perception of threat (for myself, or for others)
nah,,he’s more like my chihuahua. who will bark at anything that moves, as though its coming to kill me. at least when she’s outside. story changes completely when she’s in the house, then she loves everybody.
Still very much a case of bark worse than his bite. For all his talk, he’s only actually hurt people when his master ordered him to. The one time (he thought) he had the opportunity to leave and go on that murder/world domination spree of his own volition, he didn’t actually do it.
A dog barking is also them telling you are capable of and willing to bite you, but unless they actually do it it’s only a harmless (if intimidating) nuisance.
How are you getting 4 captchas? I only have to chick a tic box that says I am not a robot.
nealithi
8 months ago
From the mouths of babes as the saying goes.
Nicely done.
Rolando
8 months ago
Ethan’s heart can be trusted, but his immaturity may make him less perceptive, and thus more self-centered. Which is dangerous in itself.
Both Lucas and Scott have higher stakes in this, since they CAN die. Although ZK COULD use Ethan’s “immortality” against him and just lock him up forever (with or without extra torture)… I’m sure Ethan doesn’t consider that a possibility.
Also, Scott is even more acutely aware of his mortality than Lucas, thanks to his experiences and comparative vulnerability.
I’m not sure why you think Ethan wouldn’t have considered the dangers of being captured. He may act irresponsible at times, but it’s clear that he’s given a lot of thought to the possible implications and (potential) consequences of his power. It seems unlikely that he would have missed such an obvious aspect.
And even if somehow he really hadn’t thought about it, him actually getting captured a few months(?) ago probably would’ve fixed that.
Exactly the point – Ethan wasn’t trying to understand Scott. Now he’s taking a moment to realize that Scott has unresolved trauma that’s keeping him from dealing with the issue maturely. If a soldier with PTSD swerves to avoid an object on the side of the road and causes a crash, it doesn’t absolve them of responsibility for the accident, but it explains it.
Brendan Keating
8 months ago
Just wow.
Last edited 8 months ago by Brendan Keating
Ian
8 months ago
mmm, this page is well-written. kudos.
Paula
8 months ago
Loved this!
robloughrey
8 months ago
Damn, the kid nailed it.
Kaitensatsuma
8 months ago
God damn it Sam I wasn’t expecting you to be smart
Brendan
8 months ago
A lot of people seem to see this as “Ethan should see Scott’s point of view”. But I’m not sure if that’s what we’re leading up to. The other analogy we can take from this is that last line “Could be the gentlest dog in the world, she’ll never feel safe around it”. Or in our story “No matter what improvement Zeke makes, Scott is always going to expect the worse from them”. This isn’t a reconciliation, this is an ultimatum; Ethan can’t keep Zeke and Scott, and I suspect Ethan is starting to get his head around that.
One last caveat to what I’ve already said to the perspective that Ethan is missing: This is the last recorded encounter between Zeke and Scott before it all came to a head. https://cad-comic.com/comic/identity-p17/ Let’s say there is a person named Zeke at your job that one of your friends thinks is the best thing since sliced bread and the other keeps slowly warming up to. However, every time you have any form of interaction with Zeke, they start talking about what great things Russia is doing in The Ukraine. How many of you would keep your interactions with Zeke to… Read more »
Reso
8 months ago
Absolutely brilliant. I love how Ethan’s anonymized description of events leads to a better understanding of where Scott is coming from.
Richard Weatherfield
8 months ago
From what I see here, this is a revelation, but not the one most seem to think it is. Ethan never considered that Scot was acting out of fear for his and everyone’s lives. The ‘huh” reaction to Sam asking about it tipped me off. Ethan was so worried about Zeke and so angry at Scott for not calming the F down and listening that he never considered Scott might be SCARED because Zeke’s presence reminds him of what happened to Carly.
Funny thing about trauma is that even the most innocuous things can trigger an episode. An abuse victim might have a panic attack at the sight of a certain pair of shoes because their abuser wore them. If something as innocuous as a pair of shoes can trigger a traumatic episode, imagine what having a literal murderbot living literally in the back of the house would do
Mr_Meng
8 months ago
An abused dog can absolutely be rehabilitated with enough kindness and patience but it’s important to remember that before it’s fully rehabilitated, that dog is still perfectly capable of ripping out someone’s throat at the drop of a hat.
ShonaSoF
8 months ago
Understanding is important, but Scott’s actions have to be added to the scales. GameBoy’s Mom probably didn’t wire any dogs with explosive collars. And she likely doesn’t believe every dog is out to get her on a conscious level. There’s a difference between prudence and phobia.
Karrde
8 months ago
I dont remember Ethan having a dog, did I miss something?
I’m not sure how much you’ve been keeping up with the comic, but you seem to be still missing a bit. That whole ‘robot Ethan built’ backstory has been (effectively) irrelevant for years, since the whole universe got scrapped and rebooted.
In the current storyline Zeke wasn’t built by Ethan. He was built by villain The Master as a weapon to stop Ethan & Lucas. Ethan/Scott/Lucas captured him, and the last arc or two have been about Ethan’s attempts at trying to rehabilitate him. (Seriously, reread them if you haven’t, they’re really good).
TamTroll
8 months ago
lowkey hoping Analog and D-pad accept Game-boy into their group, even if it’s just as a part-time sidekick style role.
Would not mind seeing him more established as a main or secondary character.
It helps that this Game Boy isn’t a blatant attempt at product placement.
Jack0r
8 months ago
Am I the only one who sees the irony? This comic is at least partially about not discriminating against robots, and yet the comment section specifically discriminates against them 😉
“We don’t serve your kind here!”
Kaitensatsuma
8 months ago
Great
Verdiekus
8 months ago
Small children and uncomfortable truths.
Jack0r
8 months ago
Except that Zeke is really far from the gentlest robot in the world.
He’s been casually threatening to kill all of humankind.
I’d reckon that Scott’s reaction would have been slightly different if they had rescured a damselbot in distress.
Swap Zeke out with a human. Would you let the Joker run free, just because he got hooked on video games?
24
Sometimes thinking about things by thinking about different things is exactly what you need to figure it out.
Oh hell no, the guy that kicks my dog and cracks their skull? While not even being penetant about it afterwards and even proud of it? Can get the hell away from me. Being afraid is one of thing, plotting to kill someone I care about behind my back with my best friend? Yeah that’s “fuck off” territory. Especially if they can’t admit afterwards that it was their fear talking and that they were wrong. Heck the fucker is even proud of it. I know people that are afraid of dogs, spiders and wasps to a illogical degree.. like really… Read more »
he never seemed proud to me, more justified. like if someone who was terrified of dogs kicked a dog that was running toward them because they thought it was trying to attack them, and refused to believe it just wanted to play. I’m not saying he WAS justified, but motive DOES matter
He’s not proud, he’s justified. If my neighbor had a dog with a history of attacking and mauling people, that continued to threaten to attack and maul people, I’d be very forcefully telling him to put it down. It is a risk to others. His “I am rehabilitating it” excuse is noble but weak compared to the risk the dog is to others. And regardless of his feelings, if that dog got loose and ran towards the children in the neighborhood then I’d put it down myself. And would feel entirely justified in doing so. I’d be sad, sure, and… Read more »
You know, there’s some serious parallels with this arc, and the prison systems all over the world here.
Just saying.
Funny thing about “feeling justified”, that works both ways.
By leaving the kill-switch in, Zeke may feel justified in eradicating humanity.
“feeling justified” doesn’t equate to one’s actions being right.
That’s the thing with basically all media though. We only see the story from the eyes of the heroes, so we feel their actions are “right” even though they might not be. For example, I recently rewatched Iron Man 2. Throughout the movie, Tony causes millions, maybe billions of property damage and needlessly endangers countless lives, just so there can be explosions. He could have just flown higher, lured the drones away from the city, but he didn’t. But we, as the audience still see him as the hero and don’t question his actions there at all. It got so… Read more »
I think you’re running the analogy into the ground. Unlike the dog Zeke is sentient. That’s both good and bad for him for Scott. Sentient beings get rights that dogs don’t, but also certain responsibilities. Every time someone came in that room Zeke announced his intention to kill or enslave all humans. I don’t agree with what Scott did, but he didn’t just crack the skull of some innocent dog for no reason.
Dogs are sentient mind you, and probably smarter than you:)
Well, no. Dogs are smarter than most people think, sure – but anywhere near the level of a fictional robot named Zeke? C’mon dude, dogs and fully sentient/self-aware fictional robots are on entirely different levels of ‘sentience’, and you really can’t compare the two.
You show me a dog capable of fully recognizing and emulating human behavior and thought patterns, then we could talk.
Sentient, yes. Sapient, no.
Yes, that.
Dogs are only sentient insofar as they can read human emotions. They are not fully self-aware or able to go against their own instincts.
People are driven by instinct as well. And while Dogs are by nature a ‘pack animal’, they ARE self-aware. Otherwise you’d never see one dog walk right across a road, while a 2nd stops and looks both directions before following the first across. And i mean this in a literal sense, we use to have a lab that would NOT run across a road, he’d stop at the edge, tilt his head to either side ‘listening’, before he’d cross. And he wasn’t just mimicking us, we caught him refusing to cross a road before till a few seconds later a… Read more »
What you’re describing is basic logic capabilities, not self-awareness
You’re also missing “After the dog, who had been trained as a killer, tried to murder them….twice….and spent a lot of it’s time acting like it would do it again and was proud of it.” Since we’re talking about dogs, you might want to see the Channing Tatum movie Dog for a lighter tone on the dog thing but, even after it stopped becoming official military policy to put down dogs after their terms of service and every effort is made to rehabilitate the dog, some dogs have suffered too much PTSD to be safely rehabilitated back into society. Getting… Read more »
A different point of view from an external person can be fundamental
put things into perspective, huh?
Times like these I wish Sam would be brought into the fold. Yeah, he’s the “Eager Young Space Cadet” to Ethan’s “Duck Dodgers” (so to speak), but it’s clear his heart is in the right place and his views are beneficial.
Also, kudos to bringing this chapter’s title to sense in this page! Until now I was expecting SCOTT to do the biting.
Yes. Now that they’re eating sandwiches……………. just kidding.
them’s the eyes of newfound awareness of other’s
…Are they eating hero sandwitches…? In several panels? Tim made a meal out of that pun.
That’s an adult joke. You can tell because it’s full groan.
All hail the dad joke, the second-highest form of comedy.
It doesn’t get quite as high as the weed joke, but then again, what does?
My inner kid groans, my inner dad applauds.
What is a hero sandwich?
Another name for a sub – though typically a hero is the plain jane cold cut sub with the typical lettuce, tomato cheese and mayo
Phobias can be so strong, they override good judgement. I’m sure many of us know that.
Yeah, but your mom didn’t kick the dog nor try to blow it’s brains out. After scheming with your other friend to do so if it ever got out of the doghouse. Then when she didn’t succeed to kill the dog, while the dogs skull was cracked open? Tried to keep kicking it and even afterwards didn’t want to admit that she did wrong, and that it was her fear talking. Infact she seems proud of it and doubles down to her other friend trying to talk reason. Your mom didn’t do any of that, nor is she proud of… Read more »
I think you’re clinging to this metaphor a little hard there…
perhaps, but it still fits.
The problem where you lost your analogy is the part where the dog isn’t just a normal dog but a dog that “his mom” thinks could kill all mankind if let loose.
Also, I suggest you take a deep breath and don’t take this *so* serious. The anger emanating from your post is so strong, you could feed a couple of Sith lords with it.
Do not take too seriously the dog/Zeke analogy. It is a good one, but also not accurate (if you look too much into the details) because the heroes cannot communicate with a dog in the same way they could do with Zeke. Ethan could understand Zeke to a level that is impossible wth a dog that came out of nowhere.
If Sam can get Ethan to look at things from a different perspective, then maybe that’s the greatest superpower of all.
Definitely. He really makes you pause to think.
…I’ll see myself out.
That’s the greatest superpower we’d need in the real world right now tbh. Well said!
I bet Sam’s mom doesn’t go out of her way to kill dogs, though. Scott’s still the biggest ass in all of this.
(also, is there any possibility of toning down the captchas? having to do 4 “click the boxes that contain ___” things is excessive)
Obligatory: https://xkcd.com/2228
Sam’s mom also doesn’t have someone who insisted that a dog had to stay in her house. It’s not about who’s the biggest asshole, it’s about understanding motivations, and that phobias can be rooted so deeply that they blow past illogical and go all the way into mania.
Except this particular “dog” said, and is capable of, and could be willing to “bite” all you ever loved, and every living person he will put his hands – er, paws – on.
Like BaufenBeast said, it’s all about motivation, and the perception of threat (for myself, or for others)
nah,,he’s more like my chihuahua. who will bark at anything that moves, as though its coming to kill me. at least when she’s outside. story changes completely when she’s in the house, then she loves everybody.
Still very much a case of bark worse than his bite. For all his talk, he’s only actually hurt people when his master ordered him to. The one time (he thought) he had the opportunity to leave and go on that murder/world domination spree of his own volition, he didn’t actually do it.
A dog barking is also them telling you are capable of and willing to bite you, but unless they actually do it it’s only a harmless (if intimidating) nuisance.
How are you getting 4 captchas? I only have to chick a tic box that says I am not a robot.
From the mouths of babes as the saying goes.
Nicely done.
Ethan’s heart can be trusted, but his immaturity may make him less perceptive, and thus more self-centered. Which is dangerous in itself.
Both Lucas and Scott have higher stakes in this, since they CAN die. Although ZK COULD use Ethan’s “immortality” against him and just lock him up forever (with or without extra torture)… I’m sure Ethan doesn’t consider that a possibility.
Also, Scott is even more acutely aware of his mortality than Lucas, thanks to his experiences and comparative vulnerability.
I’m not sure why you think Ethan wouldn’t have considered the dangers of being captured. He may act irresponsible at times, but it’s clear that he’s given a lot of thought to the possible implications and (potential) consequences of his power. It seems unlikely that he would have missed such an obvious aspect.
And even if somehow he really hadn’t thought about it, him actually getting captured a few months(?) ago probably would’ve fixed that.
Scott was still wrong though. Just because he was bit before doesn’t make his actions right. Understandable, maybe, but not right.
Exactly the point – Ethan wasn’t trying to understand Scott. Now he’s taking a moment to realize that Scott has unresolved trauma that’s keeping him from dealing with the issue maturely. If a soldier with PTSD swerves to avoid an object on the side of the road and causes a crash, it doesn’t absolve them of responsibility for the accident, but it explains it.
Just wow.
mmm, this page is well-written. kudos.
Loved this!
Damn, the kid nailed it.
God damn it Sam I wasn’t expecting you to be smart
A lot of people seem to see this as “Ethan should see Scott’s point of view”. But I’m not sure if that’s what we’re leading up to. The other analogy we can take from this is that last line “Could be the gentlest dog in the world, she’ll never feel safe around it”. Or in our story “No matter what improvement Zeke makes, Scott is always going to expect the worse from them”. This isn’t a reconciliation, this is an ultimatum; Ethan can’t keep Zeke and Scott, and I suspect Ethan is starting to get his head around that.
This sounds like the most likely scenario we’re heading toward.
Sounds like they both (Scott and this guy’s mom) need psychological help. Clearly they both have issues that need working out.
It’s called PTSD and people go to therapy for it.
One last caveat to what I’ve already said to the perspective that Ethan is missing: This is the last recorded encounter between Zeke and Scott before it all came to a head. https://cad-comic.com/comic/identity-p17/ Let’s say there is a person named Zeke at your job that one of your friends thinks is the best thing since sliced bread and the other keeps slowly warming up to. However, every time you have any form of interaction with Zeke, they start talking about what great things Russia is doing in The Ukraine. How many of you would keep your interactions with Zeke to… Read more »
Absolutely brilliant. I love how Ethan’s anonymized description of events leads to a better understanding of where Scott is coming from.
From what I see here, this is a revelation, but not the one most seem to think it is. Ethan never considered that Scot was acting out of fear for his and everyone’s lives. The ‘huh” reaction to Sam asking about it tipped me off. Ethan was so worried about Zeke and so angry at Scott for not calming the F down and listening that he never considered Scott might be SCARED because Zeke’s presence reminds him of what happened to Carly.
But it was a human who killed Carly and forced him into the chair. Not a robot.
Funny thing about trauma is that even the most innocuous things can trigger an episode. An abuse victim might have a panic attack at the sight of a certain pair of shoes because their abuser wore them. If something as innocuous as a pair of shoes can trigger a traumatic episode, imagine what having a literal murderbot living literally in the back of the house would do
An abused dog can absolutely be rehabilitated with enough kindness and patience but it’s important to remember that before it’s fully rehabilitated, that dog is still perfectly capable of ripping out someone’s throat at the drop of a hat.
Understanding is important, but Scott’s actions have to be added to the scales. GameBoy’s Mom probably didn’t wire any dogs with explosive collars. And she likely doesn’t believe every dog is out to get her on a conscious level. There’s a difference between prudence and phobia.
I dont remember Ethan having a dog, did I miss something?
Zeke is the “dog”. Ethan gave Sam/Gameboy the sanitized, outside source-friendly, child-friendly version of events.
Telling people that you have a killer robot villain in your storage closet isn’t the best idea, even if he’s slowly getting better.
Oh, right the Xbox robot that Ethan built
I’m not sure how much you’ve been keeping up with the comic, but you seem to be still missing a bit. That whole ‘robot Ethan built’ backstory has been (effectively) irrelevant for years, since the whole universe got scrapped and rebooted.
In the current storyline Zeke wasn’t built by Ethan. He was built by villain The Master as a weapon to stop Ethan & Lucas. Ethan/Scott/Lucas captured him, and the last arc or two have been about Ethan’s attempts at trying to rehabilitate him. (Seriously, reread them if you haven’t, they’re really good).
lowkey hoping Analog and D-pad accept Game-boy into their group, even if it’s just as a part-time sidekick style role.
Would not mind seeing him more established as a main or secondary character.
He’s already the much better Game-Boy than the one in “Captain N” ever was.
It helps that this Game Boy isn’t a blatant attempt at product placement.
Am I the only one who sees the irony? This comic is at least partially about not discriminating against robots, and yet the comment section specifically discriminates against them 😉
“We don’t serve your kind here!”
Great
Small children and uncomfortable truths.
Except that Zeke is really far from the gentlest robot in the world.
He’s been casually threatening to kill all of humankind.
I’d reckon that Scott’s reaction would have been slightly different if they had rescured a damselbot in distress.
Swap Zeke out with a human. Would you let the Joker run free, just because he got hooked on video games?