Not knowing the actual statistics of this city complicates things. He might be right in this fictional world.
They even have a ‘live action’ video game tournament. The city has alleged more supers than some other cities. Maybe there’s something in the water. With more superheroes and villains it might be easier to accept extreme actions. It is even acted out in real life.
Not that I personally think it, but we should be open for the possibility that this fictional universe does have this problem.
Even if he was correct about the statistics, that doesn’t mean he’s right about correlation and causation: what if it’s not the games causing violent tendencies, but instead people with violent tendencies gravitating towards violent games? People with violent tendencies will find their fix one way or another, so blaming games for it is pointless and just plain wrong; if games were not available, they’d do something else and that something else might be even worse.
That is my exact point. There is no defending or attacking it without more information. Is there correlation? Peer reviewed studies? Payed researchers by big pharma to distract from their psychosis inducing drugs? What is the use of saying Elijah is wrong, while in their universe he might be right? His actions are questionable regardless, as it is doubtful he’ll get anywhere this way. But on this point? How can we tell that he’s wrong? Doesn’t that show our bias more, showing that we are the ones unable to listen to him? Failing to listen his perspective is also why… Read more »
You’re doing it the wrong way around. That burden of proof is on Elijah. If you want to convince anyone things work like that, prove it. Give a proper argument, backed up with evidence. Demonstrate why it is indeed true, and not the twisted logic of a man messed up by grief. For a ridiculous sounding theory like this to get credibility, the theory maker needs to bring the correlation, peer reviewed studies and at all that. It’s not the rest of the world’s responsibility to prove why someone’s delusions are indeed delusions. You’re also wrong on the ‘failing to… Read more »
Though the burden of proof is mainly on Elijah, we can’t absolve ourselves from bringing proof. Let’s put it in another way. Say one person tells us the world is round and not flat. Sure the burden of proof is on that one person, but can we tell him the world is flat without further proof? Or maybe shaped like a banana? By making his statement uncertain you haven’t proven the opposite. We’re only saying “sorry bud, but this simply isn’t enough for any murderous action.” Which to me is a good response. And he ís giving some statistics that… Read more »
Elijah’s not right. He admitted as much on the last page when he acknowledged that the real problems are a lack of available mental health care for people who need it and politicians that won’t enact any gun control.
Argl
6 hours ago
“Do you think that it’s a coincidence that so many of these shooters are gamers?”
Isn’t that the easiest fallacy to disprove?
90% of the shooters are gamers? Yeah, because 90% of the kids are gamers.
That neither proves or disproves anything at all. Do you know if there’s confounding variables? We really don’t. So maybe video games are (part of) the cause in this fictional universe. To say it’s a fallacy shows bias
So how does “90% of the shooters are gamers? Yeah, because 90% of the kids are gamers.” show it’s a fallacy? At best it shows a statistic that is useless on it’s own.
Exactly. At this point it can, or can not be causation. Without more data it is impossible to tell.
Saying “oh this is uncertain, so it must be what I think,” is wrong on so many levels. It is uncertain, so it can be either. No conclusion can be drawn.
So then what would (in your view) need to happen for a such conclusion to be drawn? Or oppositely, what could convince you that might not be as Elijah says? Because if no such conditions exist, there’s zero reason for anyone to bother arguing.
You’re correct that “this is uncertain, so it must be what I think” is wrong on many levels, but that is almost exactly what your position comes down to when you try to use the lack of ‘conclusive’ proof as an argument in favor of Elijah.
The same way as saying that 100% of shooters are born on earth, breath oxygen and are human.
People who argue video games cause violence love to ignore the fact that the very same video games they blame are literally played world wide, yet the USA is the only country with such a massive problem.
It’s almost as though the combined number of school shootings worldwide over the last 100 years being less than the USA has per year is related to something else…gee I wonder what it could be?
It proves that saying “look at this common trait, it can’t be just a coincidence!” is bullshit, because you can just look at the other group and “prove” the opposite by the same logic. So that’s a fallacy by definition. I agree with a thing you expressed in several other comments : this is a fictional universe, and we definitely lack data to give an accurate judgement on the issue as a whole. But we can still judge some individual arguments on which we got enough information, draw parallels with our reality for some other arguments, and just extrapolate the… Read more »
It’s easy to blame violent games when there are millions upon millions of kids who play them. It’s statistically inevitable, not causal. By the same flawed logic, you can say that 100% of active shooters eat food. It must be food that is causing the violence!!! If violent games had any casual effect on people, there would be millions of kids playing real life GTA. Yet, there isn’t. It’s small minds assuming without any real evidence that anything containing violence must cause violence itself. Negative material conditions cause violence. Economic, social, mental health stressors, and actual violence cause violent behavior.… Read more »
Cyrad
5 hours ago
Mr. Elijah, I think you need education on the difference between causation and correlation. And hypocrisy while you’re at it.
ears
5 hours ago
Do you think it’s a coincidence that so many of these shooters eat food? This city idolizes eating, there are supermarkets and restaurants and even freaking cafes!
You’re not wrong. This is also a discussion as old as time. Before video games, it was violence on TV. Before TV, it was violence in movies. Before movies, it was violence in books. 🙃
Phire
3 hours ago
71% of Americans are gamers of some sort or another. So the idea that “most of them are gamers”, is, in fact, an unsurprising coincidence, since, you know, most of the population is also a gamer.
Elijah is just coming across as really dumb at this point.
That isn’t to say he’s not a believable character though.
I mean, LOTS of people are as dumb as he is, he just happened to get super powers that turned him from stupid, to super stupid.
If 0.1% of people who play violent games become shooters, that’s just a statistical inevitability. If violent games make people into killers, then Guitar Hero makes people into rock stars. Pokemon should make kids start underground cock fights. Flight sim games should make kids want to do another 9/11! We don’t believe these things, because we don’t fear these things happening. However, when a game does something that is within the capability of every human being, it somehow becomes a valid scapegoat.
Very true. I mean, some people think those with autism are capable of serious evil because of the actions of one person during Sandy Hook. But a vast majority of those with autism would never do such a thing.
Figgly
2 hours ago
Breaking news! It was revealed that the latest BadMan of the week was an enjoyer of McDonalds food!
Conclusion: McDonalds causes BadMen to exist and cause violence!
What’s scary is that there is legitimately a not so small group of people out there who legitimately think like Elijah. And some of those people have guns.
Crestlinger
1 hour ago
ESRB would like a word with this one. Specifically, about how many ‘adults only’ games it has allowed
Neon
56 minutes ago
Did anyone tell Elijah the percentage of shooters that drank water? Ate bread?
He even aknowledged that a gaming is more popular in Omnitropolis than anywhere else, so of course more shooter from Omnitropolis are gamers. Correlation does not imply causation Elijah.
And of course someone with the tendency to run amok is most likely to be drawn to violence in general.
24
Panel 1: Yeah, that’s fair – Analog’s not wearing his cape this time. Or, as the cool kids say these days, Analog and D-Pad got ratioed.
Gotta love straw-man argument’s. Doesn’t matter how hard you try and argue with people like this, they only see thing’s in black and white.
Not knowing the actual statistics of this city complicates things. He might be right in this fictional world.
They even have a ‘live action’ video game tournament. The city has alleged more supers than some other cities. Maybe there’s something in the water. With more superheroes and villains it might be easier to accept extreme actions. It is even acted out in real life.
Not that I personally think it, but we should be open for the possibility that this fictional universe does have this problem.
Even if he was correct about the statistics, that doesn’t mean he’s right about correlation and causation: what if it’s not the games causing violent tendencies, but instead people with violent tendencies gravitating towards violent games? People with violent tendencies will find their fix one way or another, so blaming games for it is pointless and just plain wrong; if games were not available, they’d do something else and that something else might be even worse.
That and also ignoring the percentage of gamers in both groups : normal kids vs shooters.
It’s like saying : look at all those shooters, 100% of them breathe oxygen and drink water, it must be what is turning them violent.
That is my exact point. There is no defending or attacking it without more information. Is there correlation? Peer reviewed studies? Payed researchers by big pharma to distract from their psychosis inducing drugs? What is the use of saying Elijah is wrong, while in their universe he might be right? His actions are questionable regardless, as it is doubtful he’ll get anywhere this way. But on this point? How can we tell that he’s wrong? Doesn’t that show our bias more, showing that we are the ones unable to listen to him? Failing to listen his perspective is also why… Read more »
Problem is that you can’t pin it on video games alone because anyone that plays video games also watches tv, reads books, listens to music, etc.
You’re doing it the wrong way around. That burden of proof is on Elijah. If you want to convince anyone things work like that, prove it. Give a proper argument, backed up with evidence. Demonstrate why it is indeed true, and not the twisted logic of a man messed up by grief. For a ridiculous sounding theory like this to get credibility, the theory maker needs to bring the correlation, peer reviewed studies and at all that. It’s not the rest of the world’s responsibility to prove why someone’s delusions are indeed delusions. You’re also wrong on the ‘failing to… Read more »
Though the burden of proof is mainly on Elijah, we can’t absolve ourselves from bringing proof. Let’s put it in another way. Say one person tells us the world is round and not flat. Sure the burden of proof is on that one person, but can we tell him the world is flat without further proof? Or maybe shaped like a banana? By making his statement uncertain you haven’t proven the opposite. We’re only saying “sorry bud, but this simply isn’t enough for any murderous action.” Which to me is a good response. And he ís giving some statistics that… Read more »
Elijah’s not right. He admitted as much on the last page when he acknowledged that the real problems are a lack of available mental health care for people who need it and politicians that won’t enact any gun control.
“Do you think that it’s a coincidence that so many of these shooters are gamers?”
Isn’t that the easiest fallacy to disprove?
90% of the shooters are gamers? Yeah, because 90% of the kids are gamers.
That neither proves or disproves anything at all. Do you know if there’s confounding variables? We really don’t. So maybe video games are (part of) the cause in this fictional universe. To say it’s a fallacy shows bias
Saying something is caused by something else requires proof. Saying “do you think it’s a coincidence” is a defined fallacy.
So how does “90% of the shooters are gamers? Yeah, because 90% of the kids are gamers.” show it’s a fallacy? At best it shows a statistic that is useless on it’s own.
Correlation does not imply causation
Exactly. At this point it can, or can not be causation. Without more data it is impossible to tell.
Saying “oh this is uncertain, so it must be what I think,” is wrong on so many levels. It is uncertain, so it can be either. No conclusion can be drawn.
I think you’re really not understanding the math here.
Because 90% of kids are gamers, it is EXPECTED that 90% of shooters would be gamers.
Because that’s representative of the population.
If LESS than 90% of shooters were gamers, then we’d even have to consider that video games make people LESS violent(though it’s far from proof).
So then what would (in your view) need to happen for a such conclusion to be drawn? Or oppositely, what could convince you that might not be as Elijah says? Because if no such conditions exist, there’s zero reason for anyone to bother arguing.
You’re correct that “this is uncertain, so it must be what I think” is wrong on many levels, but that is almost exactly what your position comes down to when you try to use the lack of ‘conclusive’ proof as an argument in favor of Elijah.
The same way as saying that 100% of shooters are born on earth, breath oxygen and are human.
People who argue video games cause violence love to ignore the fact that the very same video games they blame are literally played world wide, yet the USA is the only country with such a massive problem.
It’s almost as though the combined number of school shootings worldwide over the last 100 years being less than the USA has per year is related to something else…gee I wonder what it could be?
It proves that saying “look at this common trait, it can’t be just a coincidence!” is bullshit, because you can just look at the other group and “prove” the opposite by the same logic. So that’s a fallacy by definition. I agree with a thing you expressed in several other comments : this is a fictional universe, and we definitely lack data to give an accurate judgement on the issue as a whole. But we can still judge some individual arguments on which we got enough information, draw parallels with our reality for some other arguments, and just extrapolate the… Read more »
It’s easy to blame violent games when there are millions upon millions of kids who play them. It’s statistically inevitable, not causal. By the same flawed logic, you can say that 100% of active shooters eat food. It must be food that is causing the violence!!! If violent games had any casual effect on people, there would be millions of kids playing real life GTA. Yet, there isn’t. It’s small minds assuming without any real evidence that anything containing violence must cause violence itself. Negative material conditions cause violence. Economic, social, mental health stressors, and actual violence cause violent behavior.… Read more »
Mr. Elijah, I think you need education on the difference between causation and correlation. And hypocrisy while you’re at it.
Do you think it’s a coincidence that so many of these shooters eat food? This city idolizes eating, there are supermarkets and restaurants and even freaking cafes!
(Sarcasm)
You’re not wrong. This is also a discussion as old as time. Before video games, it was violence on TV. Before TV, it was violence in movies. Before movies, it was violence in books. 🙃
71% of Americans are gamers of some sort or another. So the idea that “most of them are gamers”, is, in fact, an unsurprising coincidence, since, you know, most of the population is also a gamer.
Elijah is just coming across as really dumb at this point.
That isn’t to say he’s not a believable character though.
I mean, LOTS of people are as dumb as he is, he just happened to get super powers that turned him from stupid, to super stupid.
If 0.1% of people who play violent games become shooters, that’s just a statistical inevitability. If violent games make people into killers, then Guitar Hero makes people into rock stars. Pokemon should make kids start underground cock fights. Flight sim games should make kids want to do another 9/11! We don’t believe these things, because we don’t fear these things happening. However, when a game does something that is within the capability of every human being, it somehow becomes a valid scapegoat.
Very true. I mean, some people think those with autism are capable of serious evil because of the actions of one person during Sandy Hook. But a vast majority of those with autism would never do such a thing.
Breaking news! It was revealed that the latest BadMan of the week was an enjoyer of McDonalds food!
Conclusion: McDonalds causes BadMen to exist and cause violence!
That’s you Elija. That’s what you sound like.
What’s scary is that there is legitimately a not so small group of people out there who legitimately think like Elijah. And some of those people have guns.
ESRB would like a word with this one. Specifically, about how many ‘adults only’ games it has allowed
Did anyone tell Elijah the percentage of shooters that drank water? Ate bread?
He even aknowledged that a gaming is more popular in Omnitropolis than anywhere else, so of course more shooter from Omnitropolis are gamers. Correlation does not imply causation Elijah.
And of course someone with the tendency to run amok is most likely to be drawn to violence in general.