Same. I never get it when superheroes agonize over getting angry at monsters or enjoying beating the crap out of them. ‘Yeah that guy is a complete ass**** who enjoys trying to kill innocent people ‘for lulz’ but he made me angry so therefore I’m as bad as he is…somehow’. No you’re not. No matter how much Star Wars tried to teach us otherwise morality isn’t black and white. After all the stuff the Inglourious Basterds did to the Nazis they were still better than the Nazis.
I don’t think superheroes agonize in the way that you are suggesting. The villains don’t think of the consequenses at all, and are doing it (no matter what the “it” is) for their own twisted sense of enjoyment or fufillment. The superhero stops them for the sake of the greater good of society. The problem is that superheroes are typically always wondering: “Have I become the villain?” So, the question of Analog worrying about the well-being of the Troll seems like a reasonable response. ESPECIALLY after witnessing what Deathblood’s idea of “justice” is.
But the problem is that a lot of the times the answer to ‘Have I become the villain?’ is so obvious. ‘Have I become the villain?’ Are you strapping bombs to people for fun and committing arson for revenge? No. Are you trying to protect innocent people from murder and harm? Yes. Then you’re not the villain. Even IF Ethan had intentionally dropped The Troll and even IF he did enjoy what happened to The Troll there’s still a ton steps between that even starting down the supervillain path.
Deathblood has likely got to the point where he stops asking himself that … and look where he is, to the point where innocent or even good people, are fine to hurt if they get in the way of killing the ‘bad guys’
I agree with you. It’s like I love a movie like Kickass. The heroes there kill bad guys with little pause, and even loot their bodies after. Kickass himself was a little torn about it, but… if the bad people never stay in prison, and keep doing harm… it’s arguably MORE moral to stop them permanently than to keep letting them do that.
also ‘are you constantly capturing a serial murderer and when you capture him he knows as well as you do that hes going to escape and kill a bunch more people, and you still let him live?’
It’s basic psychology and common sense. 1) Hurting and killing others feels awful to anyone with basic empathy and a healthy conscience. So, they don’t wanna go through that. 2) Those situations people like The Troll drag you in, tend to derive in casualties and/or horrific trauma for many people even if you “win.” So, even if you MUST engage him and yoi will, you’ll loathe the idea if you’re a sensible person. Or do you think sane cops enjoy shoot-out’s with drug cartels among civilians? 3) The ONLY way to remain clean after you’ve taken a duty where you… Read more »
Well its a common superhero trope. Blaming yourself for bad stuff is better than living in a world where horrible things happen to good people for no reason. The Troll is exploiting this, he found himself a good victim.
You’re talking about one of the most complex and challenging issues within human nature. WAY more people than all of us here, and with WAY more intelligence and research and expertise than you or me… Have been stumped by it. But no. You act like it’s a B&W deal that can be boiled down to a one-liner. He’s not overthinking it. You’re oversimplifying it. With all due respect, you’re so not getting the depth and breadth of this, if you think it’s so simple. While also grossly overestimating your capabilities. Or are you telling everyone, that you’ve cracked this particular… Read more »
I guess, personally, if someone is out there causing harm or taking lives, I feel like all bets are off. It’s easier for me to sleep at night knowing that person is no longer around, unable to harm anyone else. Of course, if there’s no solid evidence, it becomes a different situation altogether. Everyone has their own perspective on this matter, and I respect that.
You’re entitled to your own personal take, yes. I understand. It IS a very personal matter, as well. That’s part of what makes it so complex. A mix of a universal issue, with something many have a very personal stake in. Personally, I actually lean toward your side. I just advice, to be careful with the slippery slope of justifications that road leads to. History is plagued with cases that started out like that, and ended up knee-deep in gen0cidal fascism. Road to hell, good intentions, yadda yadda. You can read more about this if you’d like, in my reply… Read more »
Last edited 1 year ago by Rolando
Popsicle
1 year ago
Ethan is being very non-Ethan. I kinda like it when he’s not always a dumbass.
Gonfrask
1 year ago
Well, probably first is to check what is of the Troll, because being free after a hostage situation and even confessing the murderer of a citizen talks about three possibilities:
1.- Jail break, but that should have been told in the news.
2.- Sentence is (arg my English) finished (?), But would have been really short for those charges.
3.- An imitator or follower that probably has been in contact with the troll.
Smart thing to do in this situation is go up the food chain and inform a higher ranking Cape about the issue, let someone who is Government insured and backed handle it because they are likely going to have more resources to work with.
In the future maybe, but right now that would ruin the story and the character development. We know very very little about this government and how government backed superheroes fit into it. If Tim wants to flesh out the world by devoting a chapter to explain the histories and rules Government supers live by, it would open up lots of options. One example would be a chapter where Captain Prime and Deathblood have a confrontation. That would allow dialogue without forcing an exposition dump.
I’m not sure what you’d expect the higher ranks to be able to realistically do about it though. -All they have is their word, there is no actual evidence. Even if Analog’s word (and the Trolls past actions) are enough to convince the authorities he’s back and targeting them, there really isn’t much to go after. -It’s a town full of supers and super threats. I’d imagine the higher ranks to have their own problems and not really be available for any ‘low’ level threat like this. -This isn’t a new issue either; The Troll is a known criminal and… Read more »
Even if not entirely concrete, they have very good evidence of a serial arsonist at work, and that is a *very* big problem that would rate higher than the usual street level super villain.
Remember, arson means tax dollars, a lot of it, and insurance claims, which could be insurance fraud. The Trolls usual antics never really got much attention because they were not a big concern. This changes that by a very large degree, because this could potentially mean hundreds of millions of dollars in fraud as far as local government would be concerned.
Sayer
1 year ago
Then he will have been removed from play, and the world will be a better place.
Ailfire
1 year ago
Why do I feel like this is going to connect back to Deathblood in some way
The God Emperor of Mankind
1 year ago
Be interesting if the in universe punisher gets a hold of the Troll and Ethan has to decide on if its worth defending him or not.
Not sure how interesting that could really be, given how we’ve already seen that scenario and know the outcome (Deathblood kills him regardless). Such dilemma’s are more effective when the character actually has a say in what’s going to happen.
Technically true, but given all the available information there is nothing to suggest it’d be different. Even disregarding the obvious power discrepancies, we’ve actually seen how Ethan reacted to their encounter. There was a lot of great mental development, but nothing suggesting any kind of extra training, preparations for ‘next time’, or other things like that.
We might be looking at all this from the wrong angle. What if there was no need to defend the troll, but only save him? While Ethan defeating Deathblood is likely out of the question without some sort of plot twist, Ethan escaping Deathblood with the Troll seems far more likely to be possible. There are some interesting narrative directions to go from there. Maybe with the Troll taking a The Joker role to Ethan’s Batman. Setting up a standing grudge from Deathblood by successfully aiding in a villain’s escape from “justice”. Having the media catch it all in action… Read more »
Stephen
1 year ago
I really like that Ethan is such a morally intelligent person. Great writing 🙂
Kaitensatsuma
1 year ago
Sounds like a job for BloodGunner or whatever his name was
Eldest Gruff
1 year ago
The Troll does to Analog what The Joker *wishes* he could do to Batman.
this thing doesn't remember anymore
1 year ago
So the Batman VS Joker problem, where Batman refuses to kill the Joker, so the Joker keeps escaping and harming people to get at Batman again. Let the downvotes flow, but this is why I have no issue with Deathblood (at least as far as what we’ve seen of him so far). There exist incredibly vile people who can’t be rehabilitated and will just keep harming people if given the chance. Ending a person like that will save countless innocents. Pretty much boils down to the trolley problem: do nothing and let multiple people die VS take action that kills… Read more »
I hadn’t realized Analog & D-Pad was a biopic. How historically accurate is it, did a tentacle kaiju really get lasered apart and bleed on a journalist?
So, because there is fantastic elements in this story, suddenly murdering people is okay?
If the crux of your reasoning is “it’s okay to extrajudicially murder people” because “the judicial system cannot contain people” then it really isn’t okay to murder people because the judicial system can. We see it doing that all the time, perhaps even too much in the real world.
foducool
1 year ago
then just publicly kill yourself
“the troll pushed me to suicide”
probably the only person on earth that can pull it off and walk away lmao
I suspect that would create too many later headaches. If he “dies” as Analog, then he’d have to stop crimefighting as that identity or else it all falls apart. Same if the “dies” as Ethan. He’d still have to live his life.
Say goodbye to Analog, say hello to Bumper/Trigger
Wildstag
1 year ago
So are we pretending that the mature option isn’t available? Reach out to a more professional hero requesting help and putting together a list of reasons they should be spending their time going after the Troll?
Yeah you could be right.
I forgot what else I wanted to say because I had to click motorbikes like 15 times, so I forgot…
ThatMageGuy
1 year ago
Ugh. I’m not gonna lie, this arc annoys me. The thing about trolls is that typically they can’t do any serious harm when you ignore them. But this one apparently can. He’s being treated as some unique case because “lol he’s a troll, he wants attention, don’t give it to him” but he’s just some douche who hurts people and destroys property, and oh no Diablo IV is out and launch day is apparently almost as important as being a hero. How is Diablo, or any other video game, really even a conversation here? You’re gonna tell me that Ethan,… Read more »
I’m not sure there’s much they can do right now even if they did get to work. Lucas is the one suggesting they go back to Diablo, not Ethan, and Lucas is usually the one taking their work more seriously. It seems even “going to the other arson sites to look for clues” is just a way to say “we’re doing something.” It MIGHT help them, but there’s a good chance any “clues” would have been burned away. But even setting that aside, as Ethan points out, this is a guy who wins even if you face him. Remember, this… Read more »
The thing about clowns is that they usually make people laugh, and yet the Joker causes serious harm. I’m not sure what your point is? Just because a villain is themed around [thing] doesn’t mean they’re a perfect copy of [thing] and can’t do anything [thing] wouldn’t do. They’re still villains, just with a theme to some of their actions. (In the Trolls case, being primarily interested in making people unhappy. As trolls do.) I really don’t see any hesitation about ‘getting to work’, just justifiable anxiety about what the best course of action is, as well as the possible… Read more »
Ace5762
1 year ago
I wonder if the fact that he gets as many do-overs as he wants has affected how he thinks about other people’s deaths. He gets to keep going, they don’t.
Esc
1 year ago
The answer is: The Troll is not the arbitrator of being a good person. Anything dealing with him is tainted and does not count.
Del Cox
1 year ago
What, so all a villain has to do is say “oh, I bet you’re gonna beat me up now and throw me in jail, make you feel like a big man?” Come off your pride, dude, and kick the crap out of the little ass.
Except it’s more “What, you gonna drop me to MY death too?”
Number51x
1 year ago
I mean, I know it doesn’t make for a good story, but there ARE other heroes who could or may already be dealing with The Troll. They could just ask for help, stating that they have to recuse themselves as it is too personal.
Crestlinger
1 year ago
Or Lucas just offs the bugger on sight. NO Troll For You! *slice►
24
Yeeesss goooood. give in to your hate, come to the Darkside.
They’re back! Yay! ☺️
Hey Tim.
Seems like this got the ctrl alt del category and not Analog and D-pad
Fixxxxed. Thanks.
Ethan is definitely overthinking this one. I’d have dropped the troll.
Same. I never get it when superheroes agonize over getting angry at monsters or enjoying beating the crap out of them. ‘Yeah that guy is a complete ass**** who enjoys trying to kill innocent people ‘for lulz’ but he made me angry so therefore I’m as bad as he is…somehow’. No you’re not. No matter how much Star Wars tried to teach us otherwise morality isn’t black and white. After all the stuff the Inglourious Basterds did to the Nazis they were still better than the Nazis.
I don’t think superheroes agonize in the way that you are suggesting. The villains don’t think of the consequenses at all, and are doing it (no matter what the “it” is) for their own twisted sense of enjoyment or fufillment. The superhero stops them for the sake of the greater good of society. The problem is that superheroes are typically always wondering: “Have I become the villain?” So, the question of Analog worrying about the well-being of the Troll seems like a reasonable response. ESPECIALLY after witnessing what Deathblood’s idea of “justice” is.
But the problem is that a lot of the times the answer to ‘Have I become the villain?’ is so obvious. ‘Have I become the villain?’ Are you strapping bombs to people for fun and committing arson for revenge? No. Are you trying to protect innocent people from murder and harm? Yes. Then you’re not the villain. Even IF Ethan had intentionally dropped The Troll and even IF he did enjoy what happened to The Troll there’s still a ton steps between that even starting down the supervillain path.
Deathblood has likely got to the point where he stops asking himself that … and look where he is, to the point where innocent or even good people, are fine to hurt if they get in the way of killing the ‘bad guys’
Which, as I said before, is a LOT of steps from where Ethan is now. Heck that’s even some steps from where Peacemaker is.
I agree with you. It’s like I love a movie like Kickass. The heroes there kill bad guys with little pause, and even loot their bodies after. Kickass himself was a little torn about it, but… if the bad people never stay in prison, and keep doing harm… it’s arguably MORE moral to stop them permanently than to keep letting them do that.
Within a certain degree, of course. As you said.
also ‘are you constantly capturing a serial murderer and when you capture him he knows as well as you do that hes going to escape and kill a bunch more people, and you still let him live?’
It’s basic psychology and common sense. 1) Hurting and killing others feels awful to anyone with basic empathy and a healthy conscience. So, they don’t wanna go through that. 2) Those situations people like The Troll drag you in, tend to derive in casualties and/or horrific trauma for many people even if you “win.” So, even if you MUST engage him and yoi will, you’ll loathe the idea if you’re a sensible person. Or do you think sane cops enjoy shoot-out’s with drug cartels among civilians? 3) The ONLY way to remain clean after you’ve taken a duty where you… Read more »
Well its a common superhero trope. Blaming yourself for bad stuff is better than living in a world where horrible things happen to good people for no reason. The Troll is exploiting this, he found himself a good victim.
You’re talking about one of the most complex and challenging issues within human nature. WAY more people than all of us here, and with WAY more intelligence and research and expertise than you or me… Have been stumped by it. But no. You act like it’s a B&W deal that can be boiled down to a one-liner. He’s not overthinking it. You’re oversimplifying it. With all due respect, you’re so not getting the depth and breadth of this, if you think it’s so simple. While also grossly overestimating your capabilities. Or are you telling everyone, that you’ve cracked this particular… Read more »
I guess, personally, if someone is out there causing harm or taking lives, I feel like all bets are off. It’s easier for me to sleep at night knowing that person is no longer around, unable to harm anyone else. Of course, if there’s no solid evidence, it becomes a different situation altogether. Everyone has their own perspective on this matter, and I respect that.
You’re entitled to your own personal take, yes. I understand. It IS a very personal matter, as well. That’s part of what makes it so complex. A mix of a universal issue, with something many have a very personal stake in. Personally, I actually lean toward your side. I just advice, to be careful with the slippery slope of justifications that road leads to. History is plagued with cases that started out like that, and ended up knee-deep in gen0cidal fascism. Road to hell, good intentions, yadda yadda. You can read more about this if you’d like, in my reply… Read more »
Ethan is being very non-Ethan. I kinda like it when he’s not always a dumbass.
Well, probably first is to check what is of the Troll, because being free after a hostage situation and even confessing the murderer of a citizen talks about three possibilities:
1.- Jail break, but that should have been told in the news.
2.- Sentence is (arg my English) finished (?), But would have been really short for those charges.
3.- An imitator or follower that probably has been in contact with the troll.
https://cad-comic.com/comic/drop-in-p7/
Smart thing to do in this situation is go up the food chain and inform a higher ranking Cape about the issue, let someone who is Government insured and backed handle it because they are likely going to have more resources to work with.
And they can stop him with giving him the attention of his preferred target. IE, its time to report the user to group admin.
In the future maybe, but right now that would ruin the story and the character development. We know very very little about this government and how government backed superheroes fit into it. If Tim wants to flesh out the world by devoting a chapter to explain the histories and rules Government supers live by, it would open up lots of options. One example would be a chapter where Captain Prime and Deathblood have a confrontation. That would allow dialogue without forcing an exposition dump.
I’m not sure what you’d expect the higher ranks to be able to realistically do about it though. -All they have is their word, there is no actual evidence. Even if Analog’s word (and the Trolls past actions) are enough to convince the authorities he’s back and targeting them, there really isn’t much to go after. -It’s a town full of supers and super threats. I’d imagine the higher ranks to have their own problems and not really be available for any ‘low’ level threat like this. -This isn’t a new issue either; The Troll is a known criminal and… Read more »
Even if not entirely concrete, they have very good evidence of a serial arsonist at work, and that is a *very* big problem that would rate higher than the usual street level super villain.
Remember, arson means tax dollars, a lot of it, and insurance claims, which could be insurance fraud. The Trolls usual antics never really got much attention because they were not a big concern. This changes that by a very large degree, because this could potentially mean hundreds of millions of dollars in fraud as far as local government would be concerned.
Then he will have been removed from play, and the world will be a better place.
Why do I feel like this is going to connect back to Deathblood in some way
Be interesting if the in universe punisher gets a hold of the Troll and Ethan has to decide on if its worth defending him or not.
Not sure how interesting that could really be, given how we’ve already seen that scenario and know the outcome (Deathblood kills him regardless). Such dilemma’s are more effective when the character actually has a say in what’s going to happen.
Perhaps Ethan has had time to strategize for if he ever encounters Deathblood again? We don’t know it would go down the exact same way.
Technically true, but given all the available information there is nothing to suggest it’d be different. Even disregarding the obvious power discrepancies, we’ve actually seen how Ethan reacted to their encounter. There was a lot of great mental development, but nothing suggesting any kind of extra training, preparations for ‘next time’, or other things like that.
We might be looking at all this from the wrong angle. What if there was no need to defend the troll, but only save him? While Ethan defeating Deathblood is likely out of the question without some sort of plot twist, Ethan escaping Deathblood with the Troll seems far more likely to be possible. There are some interesting narrative directions to go from there. Maybe with the Troll taking a The Joker role to Ethan’s Batman. Setting up a standing grudge from Deathblood by successfully aiding in a villain’s escape from “justice”. Having the media catch it all in action… Read more »
I really like that Ethan is such a morally intelligent person. Great writing 🙂
Sounds like a job for BloodGunner or whatever his name was
The Troll does to Analog what The Joker *wishes* he could do to Batman.
So the Batman VS Joker problem, where Batman refuses to kill the Joker, so the Joker keeps escaping and harming people to get at Batman again. Let the downvotes flow, but this is why I have no issue with Deathblood (at least as far as what we’ve seen of him so far). There exist incredibly vile people who can’t be rehabilitated and will just keep harming people if given the chance. Ending a person like that will save countless innocents. Pretty much boils down to the trolley problem: do nothing and let multiple people die VS take action that kills… Read more »
Real life doesn’t have Arkham’s tissue paper walls.
The Unabomber just died in jail.
I hadn’t realized Analog & D-Pad was a biopic. How historically accurate is it, did a tentacle kaiju really get lasered apart and bleed on a journalist?
So, because there is fantastic elements in this story, suddenly murdering people is okay?
If the crux of your reasoning is “it’s okay to extrajudicially murder people” because “the judicial system cannot contain people” then it really isn’t okay to murder people because the judicial system can. We see it doing that all the time, perhaps even too much in the real world.
then just publicly kill yourself
“the troll pushed me to suicide”
probably the only person on earth that can pull it off and walk away lmao
I suspect that would create too many later headaches. If he “dies” as Analog, then he’d have to stop crimefighting as that identity or else it all falls apart. Same if the “dies” as Ethan. He’d still have to live his life.
Say goodbye to Analog, say hello to Bumper/Trigger
So are we pretending that the mature option isn’t available? Reach out to a more professional hero requesting help and putting together a list of reasons they should be spending their time going after the Troll?
I get Ethan not thinking of it, but Lucas?
You could just give up being a super hero.
Which is the worst, most pathetic option. Especially with the Troll, who will then theme his violent crime around “you could have stopped me”.
Yeah you could be right.
I forgot what else I wanted to say because I had to click motorbikes like 15 times, so I forgot…
Ugh. I’m not gonna lie, this arc annoys me. The thing about trolls is that typically they can’t do any serious harm when you ignore them. But this one apparently can. He’s being treated as some unique case because “lol he’s a troll, he wants attention, don’t give it to him” but he’s just some douche who hurts people and destroys property, and oh no Diablo IV is out and launch day is apparently almost as important as being a hero. How is Diablo, or any other video game, really even a conversation here? You’re gonna tell me that Ethan,… Read more »
I’m not sure there’s much they can do right now even if they did get to work. Lucas is the one suggesting they go back to Diablo, not Ethan, and Lucas is usually the one taking their work more seriously. It seems even “going to the other arson sites to look for clues” is just a way to say “we’re doing something.” It MIGHT help them, but there’s a good chance any “clues” would have been burned away. But even setting that aside, as Ethan points out, this is a guy who wins even if you face him. Remember, this… Read more »
The thing about clowns is that they usually make people laugh, and yet the Joker causes serious harm. I’m not sure what your point is? Just because a villain is themed around [thing] doesn’t mean they’re a perfect copy of [thing] and can’t do anything [thing] wouldn’t do. They’re still villains, just with a theme to some of their actions. (In the Trolls case, being primarily interested in making people unhappy. As trolls do.) I really don’t see any hesitation about ‘getting to work’, just justifiable anxiety about what the best course of action is, as well as the possible… Read more »
I wonder if the fact that he gets as many do-overs as he wants has affected how he thinks about other people’s deaths. He gets to keep going, they don’t.
The answer is: The Troll is not the arbitrator of being a good person. Anything dealing with him is tainted and does not count.
What, so all a villain has to do is say “oh, I bet you’re gonna beat me up now and throw me in jail, make you feel like a big man?” Come off your pride, dude, and kick the crap out of the little ass.
Except it’s more “What, you gonna drop me to MY death too?”
I mean, I know it doesn’t make for a good story, but there ARE other heroes who could or may already be dealing with The Troll. They could just ask for help, stating that they have to recuse themselves as it is too personal.
Or Lucas just offs the bugger on sight. NO Troll For You! *slice►