24

Maintaining The C Average

August 28, 2017 by Tim

In fairness, I do think this concept, this idea of taking popular comic characters and letting writers loose to tell a story as they please without being constrained by the needs of a greater continuity, is really exciting. Some of the most fun comics are based on this concept: Marvel 1602, Gotham By Gaslight, Old Man Logan, Night Of The Living Deadpool, etc.

Doing it on film is a tricky proposition, though. Doing it on film when you’ve barely established your existing cinematic universe? Sounds like a mess to me.

I don’t know, I don’t run a movie studio, I don’t oversee a shared film universe. It just seems to me, though, that the general movie-going population might start to get a little confused as to what constitutes canon for the DCEU and what doesn’t. They’ve barely shown us the shitty Joker they already have, and now they’re going to give us two.

And how embarrassing would it be for them if these standalone movies end up leagues better than their fancy “DC Extended Universe” that they just had to have so badly?

As always, this is something I want to be wrong about. I want good DC movies. There’s room in my heart for good DC movies. Right now I’m just not convinced that Wonder Woman wasn’t an anomaly.


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Tiago Andrade
4 years ago

As we say in Brazil, DC is as lost as a deaf man playing Bingo.

Hamstermer
Hamstermer
4 years ago
Reply to  Tiago Andrade

WHAT? SPEAK UP SONNY I CAN’T HEAR YOU!

RP
RP
4 years ago

Well, Marvel did slip on Iron Fist. Maybe DC will get this right. Or Marvel messes up Defenders.

Drake
Drake
4 years ago
Reply to  RP

What was wrong with Iron Fist? Aside from the shoddy camera work in fight scenes, I thought it was pretty good. Just not as good as Daredevil.

RP
RP
4 years ago
Reply to  Drake

Well, he had something going, but felt half-baked with bad character that was too reliant on big bad Hand.

ArthurRex12
ArthurRex12
4 years ago
Reply to  RP

The Hand are Danny Rand’s nemesis the same way Hydra is Cap’s. You can’t do Iron Fist WITHOUT bringing in the Hand.

gopher65
gopher65
4 years ago
Reply to  RP

Defenders is already out. It’s not great, not terrible. It’s about par for the course for the Netflix Marvel shows. Unfortunately for the show, it was mostly written before Iron Fist came out, so the whole thing leans heavily on Danny Rand, who is just an insufferably terrible actor for the part. The rest of the crew feels like they’re side characters. Especially Daredevil, who seemed less “conflicted” (which is what they were going for) and more outright out-of-character for a good chunk of the show. Still, I liked the format, the main villain was pretty good though. Great choice… Read more »

Feemster
Feemster
4 years ago
Reply to  gopher65

Well he was out of his comfort zone and fighting himself internally so daredevil being out of character makes sense…. but the most logical chunks were still there. As for Danny rand… yeah dude does pull off badass with issues as much as entitled idiot who never learned how do anything but fight for the last 10 years. Honestly his fight scenes are waaay better in defenders than in his stand alone title. Putting him next to Sigourney Weaver really made that acting gap obvious. DC does better with it’s animated movies and T.V. shows. Personally aside from the random… Read more »

The Man in Black
4 years ago

If I’m following correctly, two Joker movies that nobody wants as well.

Bawkbagawk
Bawkbagawk
4 years ago

Marvel has no business calling any other company’s work a “shit show”. They are allergic to success, why else would Marvel be working so hard to alienate their readers?

Robert Loughrey
Robert Loughrey
4 years ago
Reply to  Bawkbagawk

The MCU is allergic to success. Every movie has made millions. http://collider.com/marvel-movies-box-office/#iron-man

Hamstermer
Hamstermer
4 years ago

Ah yes very much so.
CLEARLY.

nothanks
4 years ago
Reply to  Bawkbagawk

The MCU is not allergic to success, but you appear to be allergic to common sense.

Bawkbagawk
Bawkbagawk
4 years ago
Reply to  nothanks

did marvel rescue your dog from a burning building or something? why you gotta make this personal, tongue juggler?

Him.
Him.
3 years ago
Reply to  Bawkbagawk

Nonono, it’s like ah rhyming thing, ya dig?
Like words before murds and all that shizzle.

Dan
Dan
4 years ago
Reply to  Bawkbagawk

I saw a Movie Bob that touched on this and raised an interesting point that was essentially Marvel make sooo much more money on films that the comics are now just a test vehicle for new ideas and to dig up old movie titles.

They don’t need to care about the core reader audience because that’s not making them mega rich.

a little cynical and over simplified but food for thought.

Anonymous coward
Anonymous coward
4 years ago
Reply to  Bawkbagawk

“why else would Marvel be working so hard to alienate their readers?”
This reeks of stupid gamergater anti-SJW keyboard warrior. Tell me I’m wrong.

MacLeod
MacLeod
4 years ago

You’re wrong. I mean being that they have been literally been trying to pander to the extreme left and their comic book sales are plummeting. Stupid crap like makingThe Techromancer look like Trump to Captain America being an under cover hydra agent this entire time.

Him.
Him.
4 years ago
Reply to  MacLeod

Um…what?
That isn’t pandering to the extreme left, it is assorted bits of unfortunately screwed up storylines. Making Gumshoos look like Trump doesn’t mean Game Freak is pandering to the left or right, it just means they wanted to take a slight political job.
Please consider what you are saying in another context prior to posting it, no offense intended, thank you for your time.

Him.
Him.
4 years ago
Reply to  Him.

*slight political jab

Him.
Him.
3 years ago

You’re wrong, but for a *VERY* different reason than MacLeod. It may be the same level of obsession/misguided-ness that can be present in what you describe, but it isn’t *that*. Some people simply…um…
Okay I can’t come up with a good argument for Devil’s Advocate other than “Maybe they hardcore love DC”

Alexander
Alexander
4 years ago

No matter what happens, I’ll always think they rushed. For the Marvel movies, we’d already had origin stories for several of the main characters. We knew them already, and were just excited they were teaming up. DC rushed to try to get the “ensemble movie” out the door. Why No Batman v Joker & Harley. Setting up some backstory to both suicide squad and Batman v Superman. That plus wonder woman would have been the perfect set up for an ensemble movie, halving the number of “new” characters being added to both Justice League and suicide squad. We might have… Read more »

AbbeFaria
AbbeFaria
4 years ago
Reply to  Tim

There have been a few thought pieces (both articles and videos) that basiclly talk about how it all boils down to this…DC wants to be Marvel, evidence throughout their history shows it and sometimes it’s actually a good thing…and sometimes it bad obviously, and sometimes just plain blatant. Their attempt at a DC universe falls into that third one. They also have to work against the fact that their flagship character (well other flagship character if you consider Batman as well) in Superman is difficult to write for “well”, his character has been deconstructed on why this is the case… Read more »

AdderTude
AdderTude
4 years ago
Reply to  AbbeFaria

“DC wants to be Marvel, evidence throughout their history shows it…”

This couldn’t be further from the truth regarding Marvel characters. Marvel has been copying DC for years, from Batman (Iron Man) to Doom Patrol (X-Men) to Justice League (Squadron Supreme). If anything, it’s the other way ’round: Marvel’s trying to be like DC but with less grit.

Him.
Him.
3 years ago
Reply to  AdderTude

You can’t *possibly* be saying that Iron Man is a copy of Batman, can you? The two are quite different. They fulfill the same trope and both lack super powers if stripped of technology (and Tony would be dead), but in most other respects they are quite distinct.

MH
MH
4 years ago

I just wanted to comment on how much I enjoyed Marvel in this comic. He *wants* DC to do well, and is so excited for him, without being condescending about it. It’s just that by the last panel, you realize they’ve been going over it for a while now and Marvel is just ~sigh~.

Feemster
Feemster
4 years ago
Reply to  MH

This is why we need a like button on all comment threads lol.

Him.
Him.
4 years ago
Reply to  MH

It’s the feeling of watching your rival fail terribly, and recommend a really good gym for them to train at, only to see them being knocked unconscious and given a serious concussion by the punching bag.

Reason
Reason
4 years ago

Wonder Woman was just OK. The reason it’s “good” is because DC has put out some really bad movies, so by comparison and default, Wonder Woman seems better than it actually is.

Jurbas
Jurbas
4 years ago
Reply to  Tim

Wonder Woman crossing No Man’s Land could have been the finale for me. That scene felt like what movies should be doing.

Feemster
Feemster
4 years ago
Reply to  Jurbas

I agree that’s a great high point for the movie. It felt more compelling to the whole feel of the movie.

Hamstermer
Hamstermer
4 years ago
Reply to  Reason

Actually, it broke many records. Only Female director of a DC movie, HIGHEST grossing Female directed action movie. And as proof that these aren’t gender based, it is one of the highest grossing DC movies recently, and seems to plan on being at that level for quite a while.

Hugh
Hugh
4 years ago
Reply to  Hamstermer

ha “highest grossing DC movies recently” “Only Female director of a DC movie” its cool it was the highest grossing female directed action movie but it does sound like you’re qualifying your accolades and definitely sounds like you’re comparing it to other DC movies as evidence that it is good.

AdderTude
AdderTude
4 years ago
Reply to  Hugh

Wonder Woman is currently *the* highest-grossing movie directed by a woman, so…that’s a pretty big accolade.

Egz
Egz
4 years ago

Ha. This was pretty funny, thanks.

John
John
4 years ago

My biggest concern with a Joker origin movie is that they haven’t solidified his origin in the comics yet. They came close with The Killing Joke, but even Joler says he sometimes remembers it one way, sometimes another. As soon as X-Men was a successful film and they had a viable Wolverine, Marvel knew they had to tell his origin story in the comics to avoid exactly this kinda event, some script writer who doesn’t even know the character writing a train wreck of an origin just for the sake of a movie. That’s how we got The Origin, which… Read more »

Kanashe
Kanashe
4 years ago
Reply to  John

Actually, it kinda seems that the Killing Joke origins is becoming more canon, because it’s the one writers for Batman comics/animated series/games use the most, the only details that’s usually changed are: 1. Joker being a simple guy who had ” a bad day or that he really was the leader of the Red Hood gang; 2. Whether he jumped himself into the toxins or fell into them. An the reason I think they use THIS origin story more, and DC is just reluctant to make it officially canon, is because the Jokers two other origin stories aren’t that interesting.… Read more »

Feemster
Feemster
4 years ago
Reply to  Kanashe

Considering that in offical canon there are 3 jokers this makes sense. I just want an explanation on that lol.

Sr. Vanilla Milkshake
Sr. Vanilla Milkshake
4 years ago
Reply to  Feemster

Oh it’s simple really.
Joker 1 is from the timeline that the rest of the movies are from, while Joker 2 is effectively a montage exclusive one or for epic scheme which is imaginary so doesn’t exist. Square root of -j is an imaginary number when j=1.
Joker 3 is a parallel ideology that is the personification of his desire to…uh…something. He is ludicrously strong since he has extra powers and such but at the least he is localized. Or something. I’m running out of blatant references.

Tyler
Tyler
4 years ago

Wonder Woman wasn’t even that good! It was a paint-by-numbers film riddled with cliches and predictable story points. The only reason people like it, was because of what it was being compared to! I think it’s hilarious when a “decent” movie get praise, just beause of the garbage it’s up against…

AdderTude
AdderTude
4 years ago
Reply to  Tyler

I spoke with a couple who sat right behind me in the theater and the woman said she loved it. She knew absolutely nothing about the movie going in and by the end, she really enjoyed it. Her boyfriend thought it was great, as well.

Eldest Gruff
Eldest Gruff
4 years ago

I’m of the opinion that if DC wants to make a movie starring their characters in a continuum outside of their current universe, they do it with Lego pieces.

SiliconWolf
SiliconWolf
4 years ago
Reply to  Eldest Gruff

What’s truely sad is that the Lego movies are so much better than the “real” ones.

AdderTude
AdderTude
4 years ago
Reply to  SiliconWolf

Sure, like dark-washing Two-Face, Jim Gordon, and Batgirl. It’s fine when that happens, but people bitch and moan when it’s done the other way (“whitewashing”).

Him.
Him.
3 years ago
Reply to  AdderTude

Whitewashing means something quite specific

SiliconWolf
SiliconWolf
4 years ago

Ooh! Two Jokers? That’s like, uh…. DOUBLE the chances they’ll get one of them right! Right?

….yeah, I don’t think so either. 🙁

Tridus
Tridus
4 years ago

This is so hilariously accurate. Bravo. I love that Marvel character, he’s not even wishing this on DC. He just seems so exasperated.

Foques
Foques
4 years ago

No matter what you all say, at least it isn’t going to be as bad as that russian flick…

Hamstermer
Hamstermer
4 years ago
Reply to  Foques

Still a better love story than Twilight?

Hamstermer
Hamstermer
4 years ago

You know, while Marvel DOMINATES (only partially by default) the Cinematic Superhero realm on the Big Screen (no, Big Hero 6 doesn’t count, even though that is technically the same umbrella company), DC and Marvel have almost even footing in the fabled realm of TV. In fact, DC has a slight edge. Agents of Shield is Marvel’s heavy artillery, but Marvel just doesn’t have enough kings and aces up it’s sleeve to excel. DC on the other hand has the Arrowverse mish mash which is, though loosely connected, a brilliant combination of all sorts of things. So DC wins by… Read more »

Goshii
Goshii
4 years ago
Reply to  Hamstermer

While I agree with you that the Arrowverse is pretty awesome, Marvel has more than just Agents on tv, you’re forgetting the Netflix shows which are TV just not broadcast TV. And Daredevil and Jessica Jones are definitely a lot better than anything in the CW lineup.

Feemster
Feemster
4 years ago
Reply to  Goshii

Their biggest advantage is that they don’t cross over mid season so you can beige watch them season by season instead of episode by episode jumping back and forth.

Him.
Him.
4 years ago
Reply to  Goshii

Oh, sorry I did forget about the Netflix shows. There you have plenty of queens and even some kings, maybe an ace
Despite this, the ground on the TV battlefield (of all types) is constantly shifting between DC slightly and Marvel slightly.
In terms of Cinematic though, given how things are going (assuming WW is an anomaly) DC might end up being that thing that persists, and is overly hyped every time, and has lots of REALLY long movies, but no one really pays much attention except for super fans.
Oh wait, that’s right, that’s called Transformers.

shadowmoon
shadowmoon
4 years ago

how things are currently
DC comics > Marvel comics
Marvel movies > DC movies
DC TV shows > Marvel TV shows
DC comics > DC TV shows & DC movies
Marvel comics > Marvel movies & Marvel TV shows

also, as for the whole 2 jokers thing, theres actually 3 jokers in the dc comics right now(justice league #50)

Vampyrr
Vampyrr
4 years ago
Reply to  shadowmoon

Dont forget, DC Animated Movies > everything else

Vampyrr
Vampyrr
4 years ago
Reply to  shadowmoon

And Marvel Animated Movies < everything else

Kanashe
Kanashe
4 years ago
Reply to  shadowmoon

DC shows better than Marvel TV shows? Eeeeeeeeehhh…That’s up for debate, like Gotham is fine, Arrow has officially become shit, Flash is up and down. While Marvel has Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, the upcoming Punisher TV series, Defenders and Iron Fist. The last two are split whether they are good or not, but at the very least they have more to offer than DC has.

Diamond655
Diamond655
4 years ago
Reply to  Kanashe

Arrow’s actually gotten better with Season 5 – I can see Arrow being shit in Seasons 3 and 4. Flash’s going down with 3 makes me feel like Seasons 3 and 4 are unlucky for DC shows.

Hamstermer
Hamstermer
4 years ago
Reply to  shadowmoon

You know DC TV shows=Marvel TV shows. It is often tipped in the favor of one or the other, but it shifts so often that it is more or less even.

Tyler
Tyler
4 years ago
Reply to  shadowmoon

Ummm…. Daredevil and gang are a fair bit better than the Arrowverse shows. I watch them all religiously, and love them both, but Marvel’s Netflix stuff is better.

Him.
Him.
3 years ago
Reply to  Tyler

Legends of Tomorrow
BAM

AussieEevee
AussieEevee
4 years ago

I honestly disagree… I think the stronger story telling comes when continuity is respected and upheld. When one book/comic/movie/game leads into the next. Even better if multiple forms of media contribute to the overarching continuity.

Kat
Kat
4 years ago

But with all this it was stated there are multiple Jokers in the comic (3 confirmed at this time) all drastically different and only have one thing in common with their backstory

Splunge
Splunge
4 years ago

To be fair, the Mobius Chair did tell Batman that there are *three* Jokers. So really, DC is being restrained

El Guero Caliente
El Guero Caliente
2 months ago

So it’s been a while since anyone’s posted on this. Did anyone watch Snyder’s Justice League? I personally quite enjoyed it. Shazam!, Aquaman, The Suicide Squad (the sequel, not the first), Joker, all have been quite good. Wonder Woman ’84 (I think?) was a mixed bag, fun in some ways but not as good as the first in the eyes of many. The first JL did well financially but had mixed reviews, which is what led to Snyder’s version. Looking forward to The Flash (looks like it’s going to be bringing in characters from other films including Tim Burton’s Batman,… Read more »