24

Never Satisfied

March 26, 2021 by Tim

If you missed the Kickstarter and wanted to get some of the books, or if you just wanted to order the digital versions, the pre-order store is now live.

If you’ve been following along, you probably know I’m a huge MCU nerd. Love it to bits. The DCEU… not so much. They’ve had a few that were pretty fun (WW1, Aquaman, Shazam), but I felt a lot of the rest was just a mess, tonally and structurally. Warner was too focused on trying to play catchup with Marvel, and didn’t build things out properly.

Justice League was possibly the worst of all, and I was openly skeptical that there was any combination of filmed or cut footage that was going to turn it into a good film.

I’ve now watched the Snyder Cut of Justice League, and I don’t mind saying… it was fine. It’s still not what I would consider a “good” movie, and it’s ridiculously self-indulgent, but it is far and away a more interesting movie than Whedon’s original concoction.

There’s no way Snyder ever thought he was going to be allowed to put a 4 hour movie into theaters, so I’m not sure it’s really fair to the compare the two, but with the extra characters the film had to introduce (Aquaman, Flash, Cyborg), the extra time definitely does give it some breathing room.

I’m not a big DCEU fan, but I’m glad we got to see this alternate take, and I’m glad DC fans got some extra content.

With that said, I’m not sure I love the way a lot of the fanbase went about their agenda to get it made, with harassment and threats. And I’m a little sad it’s empowered faith in those tactics for bullying Warner Bros with this #RestoreTheSnyderverse movement. I’m not looking forward to hearing about this hashtag for the next 5-10 years as Warner Bros tries to navigate the disparate pieces of their DC film franchises in the shadow of Snyder’s unrealized sequels. Movies that will never be able to compete with the headcanon these fans have imagined for themselves regarding what could have been.


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Humsterr
Humsterr
6 months ago

I think it’s a sign of a more general problem where corporations pander to public, when presented with trending hashtags. Cancel culture works the same way, it’s just instead of #cancelperson we have #restore here. All the methods are the same as well: harassment and threats. That’s the Internet for you all right.

Robert Loughrey
Robert Loughrey
6 months ago
Reply to  Humsterr

Meh, there’s no such thing as cancel culture. Each consumer decides what they want to consume. If enough of those people have a problem with your product it is a rational business decision to cater to them. Now don’t get me wrong, the DCU is still a train wreck and no matter what they do there will be a base of dissatisfied customers, but that’s just the nature of putting out a bad product.

Ben
Ben
6 months ago

Even better. The reaction of the “anti cancel culture” people? “Cancel the people we think are cancelling stuff” I think there is a greater outcry against things and it’s a sign of how self absorbed/self important the consumer has become. I see it in webcomic reactions too. People, you the viewer are not owed anything. Unless you pay an artist before content is made with a specific contract about what is to be made, you sit there, consume and be quiet. I don’t care about your five dollar patreon donation. It gives you just as much control over the creative… Read more »

raven0ak
raven0ak
6 months ago

>Meh, there’s no such thing as cancel culture.
Oh my sweet summerchild, if you really believe that you are very out of touch with social media

leduk
leduk
6 months ago
Reply to  raven0ak

No, he’s totally right. Cancel culture is a conservative myth, from people who want to victimize themselves. There is no such thing like what the fox, the republicans or oann call cancell culture. There is, however, a lof of censorship coming from those particular ppl (conservative) but no one gives a fuck.

Skyblade
Skyblade
6 months ago
Reply to  leduk

Then please explain what happened to Gina Carano.

Skyblade
Skyblade
6 months ago

Tell that to Gina Carano. The left literally ran a targeted harassment campaign against her because she wouldn’t put pronouns in her Twitter bio, then got her fired because she pointed out that your hatred and bigotry is exactly the type that lead to the rise of Nazi Germany.

leduk
leduk
6 months ago
Reply to  Humsterr

Cancel culture is a far right/GQP/incel myth.

Unagiman
Unagiman
6 months ago
Reply to  Humsterr

It’s adorable that you think corporations give a crap about what people generally think beyond the economic impact of something. It wasn’t harassment and threats that made the Snyder Cut happen, it was buzz and discussion and the realization that it’d be a big money maker for them to get people buying/renting/streaming the new edition without needing a massive marketing campaign, because it was already happening at a grassroots level. I mean here we are, talking about it without getting paid to.

Mattias
Mattias
6 months ago

Brilliant comic xD

Vicente Sampedro Burgos
Vicente Sampedro Burgos
6 months ago

The problem will always be that 1 person complaining in social network will always make more noise than 1000 people which are happy with the released product, and this happen everyday with a lot of product. But companies doesn’t realize this until the satisfied clients see that the companies only follow the logic of the complainers and stop buying and shop elsewhere. Japanese customer/hospitality service has a long practice of always hearing your customer complaints BUT NEVER take it as a word of god without listening first to your long term customers, because you could lose your main customer base.

GUNnibal
GUNnibal
6 months ago

Agreed. I feel like companies often adopt one of the extreme approaches: disregard all customer feedback entirely or get bothered by every complaint ever mentioned. Both lead to trouble (different kinds of trouble, admittedly, but still trouble).
I guess it just goes to show that dealing with people can never be reduced to some simple set of instructions – finesse is paramount for businesses like that.

Paweł Zdanowski
Paweł Zdanowski
6 months ago

As much as I prefer MCU to DCEU I must say I liked BvS and JL extended cuts. I like the direction it was going and I would love to see a full Knightmare movie 🙂

Paweł Zdanowski
Paweł Zdanowski
6 months ago

Just to be clear – I’m not a part of any fandom asking for any cuts or restorations, but Snyder Cut made me 100% more interested in seeing more DC again.

Urazz
Urazz
6 months ago
Reply to  Tim

It’s pretty much that WB caused the issue in the first place by trying to rush to a Justice League movie. When they saw Man of Steel do well they had Snyder rush to Justice League it looked like. Batman Vs. Superman should’ve been split up in 2 movies and the other heroes should’ve gotten their own movies with the exception of Cyborg, who I felt was fine having his backstory in Justice League since the origin of his powers is a result of tampering with a Mother Box.

Marc
Marc
6 months ago
Reply to  Urazz

I would go with one step further saying BvS makes no sense in any mind. You need to make a very contrived story in order to bring about any rationale to make Batman so eager to fight Superman. And that was felt in not just BvS with the martha deus ex machina and how Bruce tried hard to redeem himself in JL from an unreasonable rationale. I mean … Alfred spent the whole BvS movie calling out Batman on his flawed logic. For me that was one of the biggest problems of the DCEU, it created a universe on a… Read more »

Skyblade
Skyblade
6 months ago
Reply to  Tim

Can they now that the box office is dead?

HelloWorld
HelloWorld
6 months ago

I think the positive and success of the Sonic the Hedgehog movie after they listened to the complaints of the fans is what got the Snyder Cut released more than the fan protest itself. They thought they could get a lot of money due to the vocal demand. They will probably find out how successful this is once the initial hype has died down, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they got a load of customers that paid to see the original and then also paid to see the Snyder version.

Humsterr
Humsterr
6 months ago
Reply to  HelloWorld

I am still pretty sure that Sonic was a publicity stunt

I refuse to believe they actually thought this creature would be liked by anyone

Yourbuddank
Yourbuddank
6 months ago

I mean, they let him do almost 3 hours for Watchmen so who knows what Snyder thought he’d be able to get away with. Ultimately I feel much the same way you do about it. I was in favor of releasing the Snyder Cut because the theatrical version was so bad IMO that it couldn’t possibly be any worse. Mostly what this all made me realize is how much movies might benefit from longer runtimes. With the advent of direct to streaming releases of blockbuster films, I don’t mind a 4 hour movie. Not like I have to sit in… Read more »

SeeJayEmm
SeeJayEmm
6 months ago
Reply to  Yourbuddank

Bring back the mini-series. If you have a story that needs 4-8 hours to stretch it’s legs and properly be told break it up into a few episodes. Theaters are mostly irrelevant and modern streaming services aren’t bound to the old network/cable show formats.

aaron Smith
aaron Smith
6 months ago
Reply to  Yourbuddank

i wasted a widescreeen ticket on BVS and it scarred me so bad i couldnt bear to see jl

Urazz
Urazz
6 months ago
Reply to  Yourbuddank

I think Justice League and previously Batman vs Superman should both be split up into several movies. I.E. Flash should’ve gotten his own movie.

Jacob
Jacob
6 months ago

What I find sad about the DCEU is that the animated DC universe has done some great and compelling story telling and has maintained its own tone. If the DCEU looked more to the things that have worked well in their animated movies they might have come out with some really strong products.

Joel
Joel
6 months ago

Won’t somebody PLEASE think of the corporations?!

Johnny 5
Johnny 5
6 months ago
Reply to  Joel

What the massive piles of money that they sleep on at night?

Dodgy
Dodgy
6 months ago
Reply to  Johnny 5

YES! You want those poor execs to sleep on the cold floor?! Come on, that would be sadistic!

Jacob
Jacob
6 months ago

I’ll say the same thing about the DCEU as I did about Star Wars: More is better. In the light of not making anything, making SOMETHING at least gives us the opportunity to get something great, and as a consumer, if you don’t like the newest installment, it doesn’t have to be part of Your Cannon. I have friends that continue to insist that the OG SW is the only Star Wars, but (IMHO) Dave Filoni saved the prequels with the Clone Wars series and I’ll forever be grateful. Snyder made the DCEU palatable and gave me my favorite Batman/Bruce… Read more »

Merendel
Merendel
6 months ago
Reply to  Jacob

cant really think of all that many MCU titles that were really failures. Maybe the hulk. Aside from that they had a few “Meh” titles but none that were bad. Cant really count the bombs that were droped by other studios even if the characters belong in marvel. the F4, Xmen, and pre civil war spiderman films are not really part of the MCU I generally agree with more is better with one caveat. You cant have directors and producers making more by throwing poo at the walls just to see what sticks. That gets you a sequel trilogy for… Read more »

Marc
Marc
6 months ago
Reply to  Merendel

They almost killed spiderman with that third tobey maguire one. And they were quite lucky that they struck gold with Tom holland after garfield.

Dan
Dan
6 months ago

By around the 6th X-men movie or the 4th Spiderman, I think I got worn out from Super Heroes altogether. I’m worried it’s trending that way with Star Wars too. Companies take popular IPs, and milk them until they’re dry.

Dodgy
Dodgy
6 months ago
Reply to  Dan

Until they’re dry, deceased, then get resurrected Frankenstein-style, go through plastic sugery to patch them up and thown at the audience as a completely new product you mean? I agree!

lechuckGL
lechuckGL
6 months ago

To be fair, it’s not Snyder fault the movie is that long. WB wanted a JL movie without properly introducing the other characters before. You need to give them a little bit of backstory, unless you accept your audience already knows them (not the case for live-action movies, that will only work with animated movies since they are made for comic fans).

Leon
Leon
6 months ago

Let the superheroes rest in peace………….

Kjellster
Kjellster
6 months ago

I’m both a Marvel and DC fan. Read the comics since the 80s and have really soaked in all the great comic book movies we’ve gotten the bast decade. so it’s fair of me to call myself fairly neutral in this topic. I think DCEU’s movies could’ve been a lot better, but boy have everyone been crapping on them for ages. I thoroughly enjoyed MOS, and I think the Snyder cut of JL was a really good movie. LONG, but good. Also, not everything that the MCU pull out of their rear port is all golden nuggets. I hated Iron… Read more »

MetalMagic
MetalMagic
6 months ago

Honestly, I enjoyed the Snyder Cut. I enjoyed it so much more than the Whedon cut. Which, again, to your point it’s not necessarily fair to compare a theatrical release to a 4 hour substance indulgent orgy. I liked the root of the plot though. I also found myself becoming more emotionally invested in the characters. Ray Fisher played an excellent Cyborg, and his entire arc was a thousand times better in this version. Steppenwolf was a better character in this cut, and they dispensed with that bullshit ‘Parademons sense fear’ thread and replaced it with one that made sense… Read more »

Blaine
Blaine
6 months ago

I started watching it; but nothing happened for 20 minutes. I gave up after 40 minutes. My wife kept “watching” for about 75 minutes when I came back in after cleaning the dishes, and she said it hadn’t gotten any better. (Granted, she was working, so it was basically white noise at that point for her in the background.) I didn’t know a lot of the back history going in; I was pretty excited that there was a new cut of the film that wouldn’t be as bad as the original (theoretically.) But when I started it and saw the… Read more »

Last edited 6 months ago by Blaine
Johnny 5
Johnny 5
6 months ago

Way too depressing for my liking. The extra character building didn’t really make it any better for me either. Plus they removed a few great scenes and replaced them with worse ones.

Duane E Naulls
Duane E Naulls
6 months ago

Well, a similar toxic ‘fanbase’ did create Rise of Skywalker and the results basically blew up in their faces. Now the real Star Wars fan (such as myself) are helping with the evacuation process…

Speaking of which, Dark Horse still has a massive catalogue of Star Wars comics. Just ignore the Abrams trilogy and you’ll be fine.

Timmeh
Timmeh
6 months ago
Reply to  Duane E Naulls

Just saying, no matter your argument, if you start plopping in fallacies like “the true scotsman” crud… well it just shows that maybe your argument is based on biased opinion and less on, ya know… facts.

Phillip Boyle
Phillip Boyle
6 months ago

I agree with you that Warner Bros was too busy trying to play catch up and didn’t focus on the films enough. I would rather see them start over and just straight up copy the MCU format and give each Justice League character their own films and have little nods that work up to one big bad. They need to play the long game and give directors some freedom to tell a story (which is why I think WW1, Aquaman, and Shazam were so much different).

WhiteKnight
WhiteKnight
6 months ago

I’m with Henry Cavill on this one – fans are passionate and their devotion to the IP needs to be respected rather than ridiculed, even when the IP they like is owned by someone who doesn’t care about it. DC fans *wanted* the DCEU to be good, and yet despite their public claims to the contrary they understand that nearly all of the films in it are garbage (and the entertaining ones don’t hold up on rewatch). So when Zack Snyder threw them a bone and told them a different cut of JL existed, they latched onto it, hoping against… Read more »

Paul
Paul
6 months ago
Reply to  WhiteKnight

I agree with a lot of this, though your last line ignores the fact that we’re getting THREE more movies and several Disney+ series from Marvel this year alone. So they do have quite a lot in the pipeline. And if anything Wandavision showed they can do it well in a TV setting, something DC has done a lot of in recent years. If WB let Snyder play the Kevin Feige role with a series of connected and fully plotted movies told over several years I think we’d have gotten a much better set of DC showings. As it is,… Read more »

WhiteKnight
WhiteKnight
6 months ago
Reply to  Paul

I say the hype simply isn’t there for the MCU after Endgame – they haven’t got any momentum going right now, and we aren’t likely to see any unless all three films are really good.

As for TV shows, Wandavision crashed and burned in the final episode. Perhaps the Falcon/Winter Soldier one will do better.

Last edited 6 months ago by WhiteKnight
leduk
leduk
6 months ago
Reply to  WhiteKnight

you seem to forget that a lot of fans are just also toxic trolls who will NEVER be happy.

WhiteKnight
WhiteKnight
6 months ago
Reply to  leduk

The same can be said for a lot of things, not just fans of various IPs. Every potential social issue has its toxic trolls, so I discount them and address the sane people.

Kaitensatsuma
Kaitensatsuma
6 months ago

I was under the impression that Super Hero movies were meant to be over-indulgent and over the top.

That’s what makes them enjoyable affairs. That’s why I liked Dr. Strange and Deadpools 1 & 2 and movies like The Other Guys because they take that over-indulgence and turn it up to 11.

Foxhood
Foxhood
6 months ago

I prefer it when DC goes seperate. Screw cinematic universe. Stand-alone Animation, series and films is what they are decent at. I’d argue better than Marvel at times for whom the universe overshadows most attempts at spin-off properties.

So I groan at this snyderverse clamoring. It is asking for DC to take steps backwards.

leduk
leduk
6 months ago

I’m fucking tired of those internet idiots.

Urazz
Urazz
6 months ago

Yeah, the Snyder Cut was better than the original theatrical version to be sure but it had the same issues of Batman vs Superman where it would’ve been better off being split into more than one movie. I.E. Flash should’ve gotten his own movie.

I also felt the Knightmare scene when evil Superman showed up in the end of Bruce’s dream was pretty cool but it was too long and should’ve been shorter.

Unagiman
Unagiman
6 months ago

I’m an hour into the Snyder Cut and I can see how it’s doing a better job at filling in gaps with character development, but the problem is DC keeps trying to throw together ensemble movies without having done the kind of worldbuilding run-up that you had in the MCU. By the time Avengers kicked off you already knew the characters. Same thing with Infinity War and Endgame. I was hoping for more of an explanation of what the goals of the villains were beyond just “oh hey we’re conquering everything.” Thanos was the most interesting kind of villain because… Read more »

BunBun299
BunBun299
6 months ago

I was skeptical about the Snyder Cut. Did not think there was any way it could turn out good. But now that I’ve seen it, I can say, The Snyder Cut fans were totally right, this version was excellent. I am totally on board with Snyder being the one to lead the DCEU going forward.

Though I don’t agree with review bombing Godzilla vKong. That’s not how to go about this.

KitTarzan
KitTarzan
6 months ago
Reply to  BunBun299

Has everyone forgotten that he was basically the one leading it to begin with? Man of Steel and Batman vs Superman weren’t great movies, everyone complained back then. Patty Jenkins said she worked with Snyder and used his vision for the characters and overarching continuity to match with her films. I’m sure James Wan did the same.

I people are unhappy with the DC EU films now, I don’t see how reverting control back to the Snyder will fix anything.

MasterofBalance
MasterofBalance
5 months ago

Rather off topic, but been wanting to ask: what are your thoughts on VR in gaming Tim?

Brian
Brian
4 months ago

I think they went about things all wrong. They should have started with what was already successful- the Arrow/Flash/Supergirl universe – then made their movies off of that and eventually gone for JLA.

At least part of the reason I never watched the JLA/Batman/Superman stuff was because I was annoyed that they didn’t use The Arrow or the Flash that I liked on TV.

The other half was that I could just tell from the trailers that those movies were going to suck.

I did enjoy Shazam, Aquaman and Wonder Woman though.