I’m just saying that if the DM decided that the players needed to find the key which was behind a stone in the basement in order to open the door in the attic to resolve the plot and that because they never talked to the small boy in the street who was the only one with the relevant information they will never advance to the next step… I find this kind of DMing not fun. For everyone involved…
A good DM would move the info from where the party missed it to where they look. The players would never know unless the DM said something later (NEVER DO THAT!) so they will feel clever and have a great time. Then the story progressed linearly but was led (on the surface) by the players decision.
A bad DM is inflexible and says “Well, you missed the clues so… you got to figure it out”.
There is a difference between “Railroading the players” and linear storytelling.
Not sure why you are being downvoted so aggressively – if the DM isn’t flexible enough to work with the players at all then that’s not likely a good DM.
I suspect some butthurt DMs who failed to give their players enough clues to the plot are in here downvoting.
Kenju
10 months ago
Hmmm I doubt this is at all what it looks like. Either she is changing her form to look like a harmless female elf (because seriously that is like the single biggest piece of bait a DM can use) or she is in reality some ancient dread necrosorceress that nearly drove the entire planet into chaos and darkness. Why yes I’ve had a DM pull both of these on me over the years, several times in fact. It’s why I never bother stopping to help any (apparent) helpless woman in need anymore. Fool me once with a False Angler Hydra… Read more »
Oh I’ll still help them. But every player at the table knows it’s a trap, and the characters might know too (if they’ve been through this before).
Besides… it’s such a trope, the trap might be *not* helping someone who really is innocent.
I think it is exactly what it looks like: spirit in distress who someone absolutely does not want to cross over or taken back to the world of the living. I sense serious bossfight coming up (especially if there’s a large open area nearby… large open areas usually mean bossfight 🙂
birdjericho
10 months ago
Definitely getting some very specific “Soul Cairn” flashbacks. When you chain up the soul of someone who can’t leave the plane of death anyway, that is the time to watch out for dragon liches (as well as any nearby invincible undead horses that come pre-trained as invincible mounts, and any undead saints with extra-growly voices who’ve misplaced their memoirs).
I know this is D&D, but I have fond memories of Skyrim too. Shame that Bethesda really really really doesn’t want us to forget about them, or the good parts might have been fonder. 😀
Rolando
10 months ago
Player Four: “See? My plan worked perfectly!”
DM (thinking): “Yeah, because I changed the soul’s location to keep you from derailing a story yet again.”
We all know this has happened many times, in actual sessions.
Rolando
10 months ago
Some people here, are in favor of the DM railroading to avoid such behavior as Cake’s from derailing the story too much. Some others, are in favor of the DM sticking to the original plan even if it makes the quest harder and longer. Me, I always try to think in terms of balance. Both are extremes, and extremes are usually bad ideas as far as I can tell. As a DM, you gotta keep the story flowing. But you also gotta keep the challenge, and avoid doing too much railroadin. Lest it becomes hand-holding, and the rewarding of dumb… Read more »
Rolando
10 months ago
Some people here, are in favor of the DM railroading to avoid such behavior as Cake’s from derailing the story too much. Some others, are in favor of the DM sticking to the original plan even if it makes the quest harder and longer. Me, I always try to think in terms of balance. Both are extremes, and extremes are usually bad ideas as far as I can tell. As a DM, you gotta keep the story flowing. But you also gotta keep the challenge, and avoid doing too much railroadin. Lest it becomes hand-holding, and the rewarding of dumb… Read more »
24
i forget, whats the deal with tobyn’s nose?
He likes his nose. Hence he is drawn to it. Cake likes noses because she is crazy and has a bow called nostrillseeker. (April 2015)
Most ghost myth and fantasy give a person’s belongings/body parts a mystical link to the ghost in question.
This is 100% the DM putting events/places in the direction the party is heading no matter what.
Yeah, but that’s just a good story. No one really wants a story where they tediously have to check though 150000 years worth of dead folks.
I’ve played with enough parties to get that the DM often has to railroad a bit in order to keep things moving.
And I played with some DM who decided that the players have to find the plot where it was decided to be and it made for little fun…
D&D is cooperative story telling. If you’re not prepared to play the story the DM has created, why even participate.
I’m just saying that if the DM decided that the players needed to find the key which was behind a stone in the basement in order to open the door in the attic to resolve the plot and that because they never talked to the small boy in the street who was the only one with the relevant information they will never advance to the next step… I find this kind of DMing not fun. For everyone involved…
A good DM would move the info from where the party missed it to where they look. The players would never know unless the DM said something later (NEVER DO THAT!) so they will feel clever and have a great time. Then the story progressed linearly but was led (on the surface) by the players decision.
A bad DM is inflexible and says “Well, you missed the clues so… you got to figure it out”.
There is a difference between “Railroading the players” and linear storytelling.
Not sure why you are being downvoted so aggressively – if the DM isn’t flexible enough to work with the players at all then that’s not likely a good DM.
I suspect some butthurt DMs who failed to give their players enough clues to the plot are in here downvoting.
Hmmm I doubt this is at all what it looks like. Either she is changing her form to look like a harmless female elf (because seriously that is like the single biggest piece of bait a DM can use) or she is in reality some ancient dread necrosorceress that nearly drove the entire planet into chaos and darkness. Why yes I’ve had a DM pull both of these on me over the years, several times in fact. It’s why I never bother stopping to help any (apparent) helpless woman in need anymore. Fool me once with a False Angler Hydra… Read more »
Oh I’ll still help them. But every player at the table knows it’s a trap, and the characters might know too (if they’ve been through this before).
Besides… it’s such a trope, the trap might be *not* helping someone who really is innocent.
I think it is exactly what it looks like: spirit in distress who someone absolutely does not want to cross over or taken back to the world of the living. I sense serious bossfight coming up (especially if there’s a large open area nearby… large open areas usually mean bossfight 🙂
Definitely getting some very specific “Soul Cairn” flashbacks. When you chain up the soul of someone who can’t leave the plane of death anyway, that is the time to watch out for dragon liches (as well as any nearby invincible undead horses that come pre-trained as invincible mounts, and any undead saints with extra-growly voices who’ve misplaced their memoirs).
I know this is D&D, but I have fond memories of Skyrim too. Shame that Bethesda really really really doesn’t want us to forget about them, or the good parts might have been fonder. 😀
Player Four: “See? My plan worked perfectly!”
DM (thinking): “Yeah, because I changed the soul’s location to keep you from derailing a story yet again.”
We all know this has happened many times, in actual sessions.
Some people here, are in favor of the DM railroading to avoid such behavior as Cake’s from derailing the story too much. Some others, are in favor of the DM sticking to the original plan even if it makes the quest harder and longer. Me, I always try to think in terms of balance. Both are extremes, and extremes are usually bad ideas as far as I can tell. As a DM, you gotta keep the story flowing. But you also gotta keep the challenge, and avoid doing too much railroadin. Lest it becomes hand-holding, and the rewarding of dumb… Read more »
Some people here, are in favor of the DM railroading to avoid such behavior as Cake’s from derailing the story too much. Some others, are in favor of the DM sticking to the original plan even if it makes the quest harder and longer. Me, I always try to think in terms of balance. Both are extremes, and extremes are usually bad ideas as far as I can tell. As a DM, you gotta keep the story flowing. But you also gotta keep the challenge, and avoid doing too much railroadin. Lest it becomes hand-holding, and the rewarding of dumb… Read more »
“Follow your Nooossse!”