I never understood how they cant just loot what they can, go back to town, get a bag of holding and come back for the rest.
Basically any game where there are “untold riches” laying around, you just grab what fits in your pocket and gtfo and never come back. I mean… the area is clear, right?
An in-world explanation would be, that people do notice the sudden abscence of a great threat pretty quickly. And then the scavengers start swarming. You need to be quick.
What are you talking about? You don’t need “magic” to reset the dark spooky dungeon with monsters; this is a world where monsters and demons and abominations wander freely. They notice their neighbors slaughtered, the lair nearly full of loot, with a lone, delicious-looking human “guarding” it. What, are they going to just steer clear? Because the humans have dibs?
This is basically like leaving a car parked in the most dangerous part of town, and being like, “we’ll come back tomorrow, I’m sure it’ll be completely intact and not stripped for parts, because *I* have the key.”
It’s more like “We just brutally killed the scary, dangerous, and powerful erstwhile owner of this fine car and we’re leaving it parked here with his remains inside. I’m sure no random neighbourhood punks will dare to antagonise our merry bunch of murderhobos by messing with it until we return.”
Worst example: Party is fighting in a corridor with some pretty tough foes and if they get through the bulk at the front of the party, the softies will go squish very fast. In the interest of 360 defense, they have a rearguard (rogue/psion) and he gets bored and opens up several rooms behind the party while everyone else is looking forward… resulting a big wave of foes coming up behind the party for some surprise attacks… NEVER split the party. If the DM gives you an NPC that looks like it is going to tell you about a side… Read more »
I suspect the conclusion would be -1 solo party member by the time you return (or if your DM wants you to have to find and rescue him, that could be his/her/their fate).
Open-world experience for the win, again! It works in MMOs, too, with the right circumstances. So if you leave and come back too late, clearly scavengers and vultures have closed your window for recovery. Ahhh, someday we’ll have open-world VR worlds to enjoy where we all scramble for high-level leftover loots. Those will be good days.
I know why we have level-appropriate stuff in games. It just doesn’t make a lot of sense in some worlds. In some systems or campaigns, you see really substantial effort to make even a single item. Yet, despite that large amount of expertise and time and resources, people still make weak items in those systems which is insane; A nastier creation needs a bit more skill, but not a huge lot more and a few extra ingredients, but then you get a real game changer item. I think in most cases you should only see really potent items. And not… Read more »
The way I’ve always figured it.. is levels of skill. Look at sword smiths, or any ‘skilled’ worker.. like glass workers. Look at sushi chefs. Spending a year or so.. just, doing dishes and such before touching anything important. (I know i’m simplifying them) They start off… making, small things. Cutlery, small knives, ‘broad’ tools… simple things. As they learn to make the ‘butter knife’.. into a good piece with quickness and practice, then they start making.. kitchen knives.. then daggers… then swords. Its also a question of ‘how widespread is the knowledge’. As a player, you’ve got a book… Read more »
In the old days it was assumed you had hirelings for that. See, back in the days of OD&D, 1st and even 2nd Edition, you weren’t traveling as a party of 4-6 adventurers alone in the wilderness. You were 4-6 adventurers, and each of you typically had 3+ hirelings, plus mules. If the terrain was amenable, you probably had carts and wagons too. The hirelings would wait a half-day’s travel away from the dungeon in a spot that seems safe enough, and the adventurers go clear things out. Then the hirelings come in to transport loot that’s too big for… Read more »
Back then, it was D&D. It only became OD&D when we got enough new versions to need differentiation… 😉 I remember those days. Parties of 3 to about 11 players (at clubs), then at least half would have a henchman of some sort once they got up a bit in levels, and the party or individuals in the party would have servants: torch bearers, porters, cooks, some more lower competence hireling soldiers, horse minders, wagon drivers, etc. A huge party with many PCs could end up with a 25-30 person entourage. You learned to really look for the most valuable… Read more »
think it stims like a lot of habits, from older more “realistic” and punishing rules and DMs. we all learned DnD from people who already play usually and they taught us they’re paranoid habits
Or when one of the players arranged an ambush for the party when he was on watch, he could go home with the loot and generously reward his bandit allies. Or they could have a go at him too.
Social conventions went out the window once good loot was on the table.
Chances are any location guarding untold riches that are too much for a small group to carry out is fairly well known. There are likely any number of opportunistic groups and individual scavangers that would love to loot it but dont have the strength to do so but keep an eye on the area just in case an opportunity arises. A band of adventurers clearing out the guards of that treasure and heading back to town several days away? well that sounds like opertunity knocking. That place is likely picked clean hours after the party heads out.
In Dragon Age 2 you take the untold riches and buy a house. Which still leaves you with a good amount to spend on gear and stuff.
But in most games, it’s just that the vast piles of gold aren’t really as much as they look like somehow. People really need to look into Draconomicon’s horde size calculators to get a good idea of how big a pile should be 😛
“A bunch of robbers who had seen your loot have followed you, while you are leaving the $LAIR they attack”
Dodgy
2 years ago
Four is with them. Simply have her gut and skin some of the enemies and make backpacks out of their hides and entrails? Got to be creative in these kind of situations!
They’d still need to be able to carry it, strength/carry weight-limit wise.
Last edited 2 years ago by Dagroth
Scortch
2 years ago
I almost always dislike weight mechanics in games. Yes I understand the point, but in most cases it doesn’t force me to only grab the most important things, it just means my vault dweller ass is going to take 25 trips to grab everything.
Yeah, I recall losing my LE paladin (3rd party) climbing out after we smoked the 5th level dungeon’s big foes. He fell from the rope into the chasm full of sharp things and he died in that one incident, all of his fancy gear and the stuff he’d been allotted stayed their with him.
Sometimes the trip home could be more dangerous than the trip to the area and the dungeon fights put together.
That’s the beauty with life. You don’t always get to 100% complete a project due to unwanted consequences.
Instead of getting that one-time trip instant reward, you get more reasons to go outside and have the chance to discover something new you missed the last time.
Plus think of the rest of the time you spend alone at home bored out of your mind because you’ve got nothing left to do.
Once you achieve everything you want, you don’t have anything left to appreciate. Both in games and life.
nealithi
2 years ago
And the wizard returns with a three pointer, and it is all net.
Salty
2 years ago
Where is my Ghost Arc!
Brian
2 years ago
Someone is getting a lesson in encumbrance rules this session.
Just like me back in time playing Ultima VI: spending days hunting giants and goblins, selling loot at three different merchants, piling up gold in Castle Britain just to realize that the game mechanics didn´t allow dividing the pile on pickup.
I recall one of my friends having his game glitch. He’d turned invisible, killed a guard, and the other guards were so angry, they went after all the citizens and depopulated a town. He tried it again until he’d wiped out all the towns using this method. Genocide by guard.
GUNnibal
2 years ago
Somebody is going to have to roll for fire damage, cause that burn is definitely leaving a mark.
Eldest Gruff
2 years ago
I like how it takes three panels, and One still doesn’t get what they’re talking about.
Eldrin86
2 years ago
The game im running has been arguing this very issue trying to get a bag of holding at lvl3 till i reminded them im not making it a big deal and they have 5 horses but they are paranoid i will kill them all.
The DM is always thought to be: …ready to kill them at the drop of a hat. …ready to steal all their stuff at the drop of a hat. …ready to short them XP at the drop of a hat. …ready to increase the monsters and enemies at the drop of a hat. …trying to prevent the party from its just (albeit often ill considered) success. …letting all the boss monsters escape (without acknowledging what players of those power levels would do…). It’s a tough job. The DM’s chair can be challenging. And there’s always one in a group that… Read more »
That’s what they get for letting hats near the party..
Henchman Twenty1
2 years ago
I recently found an old notebook containing the AD&D characters belonging to my brother and I from the early 80’s. We had absolutely no concept of encumbrance back then.
Wait, so you’re telling me that someone could have just had their character pocket an entire castle way back when, and the DM would just have to allow it?
I am amazed that there is no Graphic Adventure game that included that as a puzzle yet. We did have some similar funny ones in the Monkey Island series (pick up the idol in MI 1 or pick up the dog in MI 2). If I ever make a graphic adventure game I will include a puzzle involving picking up a castle with all the soldiers still in it, and placing it somewhere else and re-entering the castle to interact with all the panicked and confused occupants.
And weight wasn’t the best idea if a strong character could carry a lot. What weapons have you got, and armour? “Plate Mail, shield, helm…” “Longsword, two daggers, a bow and 24 arrows, a warhammer, a spear, and a great axe. Oh, yes, and my other bastard sword that has the +4 vs. cold critters because I don’t use it all the time, but I need it around.” Funniest case in our game of 19 years: The Wizard has never changed characters and was the only one who could use Wizard stuff (there were two Clerics and a lot of… Read more »
Pulse
2 years ago
and only the last line is OOC
Merendel
2 years ago
And our resident wizard of the flame is back with a sick BURN.
Crestlinger
2 years ago
Big ol sack of gold. Now listed as an improvised weapon. Because the party that Whomps together Stays together.
24
I never understood how they cant just loot what they can, go back to town, get a bag of holding and come back for the rest.
Basically any game where there are “untold riches” laying around, you just grab what fits in your pocket and gtfo and never come back. I mean… the area is clear, right?
It’s an instanced dungeon that despawns after you leave would be the most obvious reason I can think of!
Yes yes, game mechanics. But if this was a “real” thing and not fantasy, where magic resets a place, then just come back.
Also just leave one of the party behind while the rest carries the loot and gets more holding space?
An in-world explanation would be, that people do notice the sudden abscence of a great threat pretty quickly. And then the scavengers start swarming. You need to be quick.
What are you talking about? You don’t need “magic” to reset the dark spooky dungeon with monsters; this is a world where monsters and demons and abominations wander freely. They notice their neighbors slaughtered, the lair nearly full of loot, with a lone, delicious-looking human “guarding” it. What, are they going to just steer clear? Because the humans have dibs?
This is basically like leaving a car parked in the most dangerous part of town, and being like, “we’ll come back tomorrow, I’m sure it’ll be completely intact and not stripped for parts, because *I* have the key.”
It’s more like “We just brutally killed the scary, dangerous, and powerful erstwhile owner of this fine car and we’re leaving it parked here with his remains inside. I’m sure no random neighbourhood punks will dare to antagonise our merry bunch of murderhobos by messing with it until we return.”
Well duh. otherwise you’re just being rude
Never split the party.
Worst example: Party is fighting in a corridor with some pretty tough foes and if they get through the bulk at the front of the party, the softies will go squish very fast. In the interest of 360 defense, they have a rearguard (rogue/psion) and he gets bored and opens up several rooms behind the party while everyone else is looking forward… resulting a big wave of foes coming up behind the party for some surprise attacks… NEVER split the party. If the DM gives you an NPC that looks like it is going to tell you about a side… Read more »
You must gather your party before venturing forth
crap I want to go play some baulder’s gate now…
Ah, the sound of my childhood!
I suspect the conclusion would be -1 solo party member by the time you return (or if your DM wants you to have to find and rescue him, that could be his/her/their fate).
Open-world experience for the win, again! It works in MMOs, too, with the right circumstances. So if you leave and come back too late, clearly scavengers and vultures have closed your window for recovery. Ahhh, someday we’ll have open-world VR worlds to enjoy where we all scramble for high-level leftover loots. Those will be good days.
I know why we have level-appropriate stuff in games. It just doesn’t make a lot of sense in some worlds. In some systems or campaigns, you see really substantial effort to make even a single item. Yet, despite that large amount of expertise and time and resources, people still make weak items in those systems which is insane; A nastier creation needs a bit more skill, but not a huge lot more and a few extra ingredients, but then you get a real game changer item. I think in most cases you should only see really potent items. And not… Read more »
The way I’ve always figured it.. is levels of skill. Look at sword smiths, or any ‘skilled’ worker.. like glass workers. Look at sushi chefs. Spending a year or so.. just, doing dishes and such before touching anything important. (I know i’m simplifying them) They start off… making, small things. Cutlery, small knives, ‘broad’ tools… simple things. As they learn to make the ‘butter knife’.. into a good piece with quickness and practice, then they start making.. kitchen knives.. then daggers… then swords. Its also a question of ‘how widespread is the knowledge’. As a player, you’ve got a book… Read more »
In the old days it was assumed you had hirelings for that. See, back in the days of OD&D, 1st and even 2nd Edition, you weren’t traveling as a party of 4-6 adventurers alone in the wilderness. You were 4-6 adventurers, and each of you typically had 3+ hirelings, plus mules. If the terrain was amenable, you probably had carts and wagons too. The hirelings would wait a half-day’s travel away from the dungeon in a spot that seems safe enough, and the adventurers go clear things out. Then the hirelings come in to transport loot that’s too big for… Read more »
Back then, it was D&D. It only became OD&D when we got enough new versions to need differentiation… 😉 I remember those days. Parties of 3 to about 11 players (at clubs), then at least half would have a henchman of some sort once they got up a bit in levels, and the party or individuals in the party would have servants: torch bearers, porters, cooks, some more lower competence hireling soldiers, horse minders, wagon drivers, etc. A huge party with many PCs could end up with a 25-30 person entourage. You learned to really look for the most valuable… Read more »
think it stims like a lot of habits, from older more “realistic” and punishing rules and DMs. we all learned DnD from people who already play usually and they taught us they’re paranoid habits
Hey just because the hirelings stole all the loot the last eight times is no reason to not hire them again. Profiling is bad.
Or when one of the players arranged an ambush for the party when he was on watch, he could go home with the loot and generously reward his bandit allies. Or they could have a go at him too.
Social conventions went out the window once good loot was on the table.
Chances are any location guarding untold riches that are too much for a small group to carry out is fairly well known. There are likely any number of opportunistic groups and individual scavangers that would love to loot it but dont have the strength to do so but keep an eye on the area just in case an opportunity arises. A band of adventurers clearing out the guards of that treasure and heading back to town several days away? well that sounds like opertunity knocking. That place is likely picked clean hours after the party heads out.
In Dragon Age 2 you take the untold riches and buy a house. Which still leaves you with a good amount to spend on gear and stuff.
But in most games, it’s just that the vast piles of gold aren’t really as much as they look like somehow. People really need to look into Draconomicon’s horde size calculators to get a good idea of how big a pile should be 😛
“A bunch of robbers who had seen your loot have followed you, while you are leaving the $LAIR they attack”
Four is with them. Simply have her gut and skin some of the enemies and make backpacks out of their hides and entrails? Got to be creative in these kind of situations!
They’d still need to be able to carry it, strength/carry weight-limit wise.
I almost always dislike weight mechanics in games. Yes I understand the point, but in most cases it doesn’t force me to only grab the most important things, it just means my vault dweller ass is going to take 25 trips to grab everything.
Backpack and Dogmeat. Then it is only 12 trips.
I lost Dogmeat……can’t find that flipping dog anywhere
Yeah, I recall losing my LE paladin (3rd party) climbing out after we smoked the 5th level dungeon’s big foes. He fell from the rope into the chasm full of sharp things and he died in that one incident, all of his fancy gear and the stuff he’d been allotted stayed their with him.
Sometimes the trip home could be more dangerous than the trip to the area and the dungeon fights put together.
That’s the beauty with life. You don’t always get to 100% complete a project due to unwanted consequences.
Instead of getting that one-time trip instant reward, you get more reasons to go outside and have the chance to discover something new you missed the last time.
Plus think of the rest of the time you spend alone at home bored out of your mind because you’ve got nothing left to do.
Once you achieve everything you want, you don’t have anything left to appreciate. Both in games and life.
And the wizard returns with a three pointer, and it is all net.
Where is my Ghost Arc!
Someone is getting a lesson in encumbrance rules this session.
Just like me back in time playing Ultima VI: spending days hunting giants and goblins, selling loot at three different merchants, piling up gold in Castle Britain just to realize that the game mechanics didn´t allow dividing the pile on pickup.
Some shortcoming!
I recall one of my friends having his game glitch. He’d turned invisible, killed a guard, and the other guards were so angry, they went after all the citizens and depopulated a town. He tried it again until he’d wiped out all the towns using this method. Genocide by guard.
Somebody is going to have to roll for fire damage, cause that burn is definitely leaving a mark.
I like how it takes three panels, and One still doesn’t get what they’re talking about.
The game im running has been arguing this very issue trying to get a bag of holding at lvl3 till i reminded them im not making it a big deal and they have 5 horses but they are paranoid i will kill them all.
The DM is always thought to be: …ready to kill them at the drop of a hat. …ready to steal all their stuff at the drop of a hat. …ready to short them XP at the drop of a hat. …ready to increase the monsters and enemies at the drop of a hat. …trying to prevent the party from its just (albeit often ill considered) success. …letting all the boss monsters escape (without acknowledging what players of those power levels would do…). It’s a tough job. The DM’s chair can be challenging. And there’s always one in a group that… Read more »
That’s what they get for letting hats near the party..
I recently found an old notebook containing the AD&D characters belonging to my brother and I from the early 80’s. We had absolutely no concept of encumbrance back then.
Wait, so you’re telling me that someone could have just had their character pocket an entire castle way back when, and the DM would just have to allow it?
I am amazed that there is no Graphic Adventure game that included that as a puzzle yet. We did have some similar funny ones in the Monkey Island series (pick up the idol in MI 1 or pick up the dog in MI 2). If I ever make a graphic adventure game I will include a puzzle involving picking up a castle with all the soldiers still in it, and placing it somewhere else and re-entering the castle to interact with all the panicked and confused occupants.
And weight wasn’t the best idea if a strong character could carry a lot. What weapons have you got, and armour? “Plate Mail, shield, helm…” “Longsword, two daggers, a bow and 24 arrows, a warhammer, a spear, and a great axe. Oh, yes, and my other bastard sword that has the +4 vs. cold critters because I don’t use it all the time, but I need it around.” Funniest case in our game of 19 years: The Wizard has never changed characters and was the only one who could use Wizard stuff (there were two Clerics and a lot of… Read more »
and only the last line is OOC
And our resident wizard of the flame is back with a sick BURN.
Big ol sack of gold. Now listed as an improvised weapon. Because the party that Whomps together Stays together.