24

Trust, p24

August 26, 2020 by Tim


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Rhys Murphy
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Rhys Murphy

Just install Linux on z1 that will fix everything right? Right?

Scott
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Scott

Install Windows…
He’ll get so bloated & crash on every update that he won’t have the time or energy to be a problem.

Rhys Murphy
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Rhys Murphy

My god what a brilliant idea

Marth Koopa
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Marth Koopa

Updates crash and break more on Linux than Windows, though

7eggert
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7eggert

I never experienced that on Debian nor SuSE except for the dependencies I edited being replaced by default dependencies.

raven0ak
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raven0ak

well, in hands of complete noob even most fail-safe thing would fail

TimeRyder
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TimeRyder

The whole idea is to AVOID being cruel and horrible to the poor thing.

Eldest Gruff
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Eldest Gruff

Ahhhh.

First thought was… Secret Future Villain Scott!

Then realized… he just sees this as irresponsible. He already got gravely injured, lost his fiancee, and we don’t know details. If you don’t believe that a robot can be a ‘person’ then this is foolish. And Scott was hoping to nip this in the bud before things got too dangerous.

All said, this storyline was well named. Trust – who has it, who extends it, who’s worthy of it, and who betrays it – is the key factor here.

Uniqum
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Uniqum

While I mostly agree with you here, I also would want to remind Scott that his view is just as biased as is Ethan’s or Lucas’ – only in another direction.
Whoever claims to see the objective truth is bound to be wrong.
Source Persona5: everybody perceives the same image with their eyes, but this information is processed by the brain using inherent information and thus transformed into a view that is slightly different from everybody elses.
First hint for this that Scott failed to notice: he erred with his assumption how Z1 would act.

Faux Pas
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Faux Pas

The best villains are people who have different views who believe they are doing the right thing.

Robert Loughrey
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Robert Loughrey

The part of this I don’t get with Scott is where he doesn’t believe a robot can be real. In out world sure, his view would be pretty on target, but he lives with a guy that can’t be killed. Where others can fly or lift a bus or shoot lasers out of their eyes. Zeke is pretty much only the third strangest person in the room. On top of that Scott is super genre blind. He’s sitting with two people who have computer game related superpowers. He knows for a fact that the world sometimes makes computer games have… Read more »

Jimmy Chu
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Jimmy Chu

We haven’t seen any specifics upon the incident where his fianceedied and he lost his ability to walk. Maybe a killer robot was responsible. Based upon how he talks about Zeke “conquering our world”, maybe it was an aggressive one with plans of domination

7eggert
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7eggert

We live in a world where people still believe that some other people are Untermenschen because of $RANDOM_REASON.

Eldest Gruff
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Eldest Gruff

I think it just depends on your view of the world. Unless you view the world in fictional tropes, “some people have telekinesis/pyrokinesis/energy manipulation” doesn’t then immediately mean “Ah, so now computers can be people.” In fact, on face value it makes an argument to the OPPOSITE way – if “people” sometimes manifest these amazing powers, and computers don’t, then they’re probably not “people.” Energy manipulation doesn’t equate to “suddenly computers can be sentient.” The question on whether something is sentient and sapient is more than just a Turing test, where the computer must pass as a human. After all… Read more »

7eggert
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7eggert

»if “people” sometimes manifest these amazing powers, and computers don’t, then they’re probably not “people.”«
I wonder: If humans emerged in a world of sentient sometimes-telekinetic octopuses, what proof is required for us to officially be a person?

Eldest Gruff
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Eldest Gruff

Tentacles, duh.

Robert Loughrey
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Robert Loughrey

That’s the rub isn’t it? Nobody can ever “prove” they are sentient. For all I can prove (to myself) I’m the only person in the world with this sort of awareness. I dont believe its true though because I assume I’m not that special. Zeke wants and talks and learns and would pass a Turing test in a flash. (though I agree that’s too simple a standard) FAr as I’m concerned I know it when I see it. Where I think Scott is wrong is in being preemptive about killing X1. Hes right that X1 is a likely threat, but… Read more »

Djosh
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Djosh

I agree but look at our world where we have people who believe the world is flat. We have people that act the same here, it doesn’t stop people from having beliefs even if the information should suggest otherwise. At the end of the day though this is something “different” and everyone adapts to things differently. I feel his beliefs are justified though obviously they go against what the 2 heroes believe. In the end it just depends if he is willing to change his beliefs if there is evidence and cause enough for them to be changed, the harm… Read more »

Daniel Sørensen
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Daniel Sørensen

Now, as much as I don’t think the little change in Z1 was done well, this ‘bomb’ right made things extremely interesting. I can’t wait for this to become something big later on in the story.

Scott
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Scott

Hoping that IF the bomb goes off, it’s because Z1 tries to leave the room to help Scott.

Oyee
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Oyee

Scott either watched too much, or the exact amount of sci-fi/horror. I read it later, but Elder Gruff’s comment also puts a good perspective on this. Wonder where Z1 goes from here.

Stef
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Stef

Please tell me you’re not gonna make him a villain again?

Arcatus
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Arcatus

Why is everyone refering to Zeke as Z1? I know that Zeke havent had a panel with “Hello, my name is Ezekiel” in this reboot, but has Z1 been canonized?

Twilight Faze
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Twilight Faze

Z1 is his name in the reboot. He may be named Zeke later down the road, but Z1 is his official name.

For now.

Dodgy
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Dodgy

Wasn’t it X1?

Twilight Faze
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Twilight Faze

Oh, whoops! You’re right. My bad >_>

JozMk.II
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JozMk.II

Where in this reboot has he been called Z1?

Evermeet
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Evermeet

The master referred to him as X1 in analog-and-d-pad-06-16 and we see his hardware designation (XB1-23G223hYh) a couple times when Scott is shutting him down

7eggert
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7eggert

Forum-posting-by-author-canonized

Eldest Gruff
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Eldest Gruff

Yup – a few pages back, Tim called him Z1 in the comments, so we’re using it until we hear otherwise. I think Howard did call him X1 at one point, but WOT trumps all.

Eldest Gruff
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Eldest Gruff

I went back to the page it was mentioned – p19 – and see that Tim had edited his comment to call him X1 rather than Z1. So again, WOT trumps all, he’s X1.

Twilight Faze
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Twilight Faze

I don’t think Scott’s gonna go villain here. His problem isn’t with Ethan and Lucas, it’s specifically with Zeke.

My guess (ok, my HOPE) is that while Scott will still express issues with Zeke and try to trap him into killing him, Zeke will do somehow save Scott from Neckbeard (I refuse to call him The Master or any other name) and his minions. From there they’ll have an Abbott and Costello relationship: friends, but Jesus Christ almighty, do they get under each other’s skins.

TomB
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TomB

Scott’s also a bit cowardly. If he really, genuinely felt that Z1 was a true threat that would never be anything but, he’d have taken things into his own hands and dealt with him to ensure nothing bad could come from it. He’s either unwilling to do what he thinks needs done (giving Z1 a way to kill himself distances Scott emotionally and lets him say it was Z1’s fault if it happens) or he’s worried but not entirely certain that he’s in the right and part of him wonders if Z1 is a new sentience that may be more… Read more »

HelloWorld
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HelloWorld

Maybe, but Scott may also realize that this robot is their best way to defeat Neckbeard, so outright killing Z1 when they had him contained was not the major concern for him. He may feel Z1 is dangerous, but he also knows that Neckbeard is the bigger threat. He also worries about Z1’s threat, so while he may want the information about Neckbeard, he also wants to prevent Z1 from harming people. If Z1 doesn’t obey the limits imposed, he can justify the failsafe as “He could have killed people, the Neckbeard information wasn’t worth the death he could have… Read more »

7eggert
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7eggert

He respects his friends and he has a failsafe, too.

If we’d do whatever we’d think to be right, everyone would be at war against everyone else. Instead we use reason and intelligence. (Even though reason is 6/7 of treason and intelligence is what the enemy uses).

Dodgy
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Dodgy

It’s settled then. Scott is a cunt.

no thanks nintendo
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no thanks nintendo

Scott’s the only one who seems to remember that not everyone in this comic strip has super powers, and that most of the people are just normal human beings who would easily be slaughtered if X1 managed to escape and decided to start doing all that killing it’s always talking about.

Ken
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Ken

Scott is right about that. Being right doesn’t make him any less of an asshole in this situation, though.

Anon A Mouse
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Anon A Mouse

“I believe that the murder bot will do the things it is always saying it will do” is not exactly being a cunt.

Robert Loughrey
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Robert Loughrey

And if you use a real life example… How about a feral child. It was locked in a cage its whole life and abused/mistreated. Upon releasing it from the cage it attacks EVERYONE that gets within 25 feet of it. Should we just kill it?

Imperator Ruscal
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Imperator Ruscal

That’s a bad example. Scott doesn’t believe that the robot is sapient, so attributing human styled psychological processes to it is an invalid argument. In the structure that Scott is operating under the comparison would better be “A wild bear is in a cage, and when released it attacked EVERYONE that gets within 25 feet of it…” To which, even by most modern conservationists, the answer is “yes, it is a danger and should be stopped.” That’s the whole point of the contrast. Ethan (and even Lucas) believe there is sapience within Zeke. So for them, attributing human-esq motivations and… Read more »

Robert Loughrey
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Robert Loughrey

Thats a big if. I do like your “Scott’s perspective” analogy about the bear, except the bear isn’t loose. Its in a zoo and is showing signs of accepting one or two of the zookeepers. Do you kill it? No you wait a bit and the zookeepers are careful. Hopefully Scott doesn’t decide to take matters into his own hands.

7eggert
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7eggert

It’s at a zoo, but the keepers are discussing to release it on good faith and on the condition that it stays for now. The one keeper agreed to put an explosive tracer in it’s neck. That keeper knows that the one putting on the explosive tracer did assume it to be a threat that needs to be exploded. Both keepers are convinced that bears have human-level personalities.

Robert Loughrey
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Robert Loughrey

Well if the bear talks and learns and can play video games as it runs a metaphor into the ground while beating a dead horse…. 🙂

Crowsair
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Crowsair

Remove your attachment to Zeke from the original universe and realize this is a robot who has attempted to kill two of the three people in the room multiple times and even in his agreement to stay has requested to do bodily harm to one of them in exchange.

Scott is currently the most rational person here

Zaldrak
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Zaldrak

He’s a cunt for not being straightforward with his friends though.

Robert Loughrey
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Robert Loughrey

Except that he is advocating the pre-emptive extrajudicial murder what what may well be a sentient being. This world HAS to have some sort of super-power related court system….

7eggert
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7eggert

Also a sentient robot race is a threat just like the Portuguese were a threat to the Inka.

ravenofpoe
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ravenofpoe

Scott has quite a bit of baggage following him. His past drives him to do what he can to protect people but his friendship with Ethan and Lucas stop him from being the one to pull the trigger here. He seems to be the ends justify the means type except that he understands that the others wouldn’t understand.

7eggert
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7eggert

They _do_not_ understand the possibility of a Gray Goo catastrophe or a robot invasion from within.

He underestimates the power of friendship. (/me briefly tried to imagine Z1 as a colorful unicorn)

Andy
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Andy

Rule 1 of AI failsafe: don’t talk about the AI failsafe where he might hear you.

7eggert
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7eggert

I’m sorry Dave …

Pulse
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Pulse

in some dimension Scott and Zeke are best friends. Ethan is also a T-rex the size of a yorkie, but thats another story.

mughi
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mughi

A T-Rex the size of a Yorkie.. That’s an awesome mental image.

RoL
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RoL

Aw come on, Scott, I was beginning to like you again.

I mean ok fair probably shouldn’t trust the murder bot but don’t be lying to your friends about it.

7eggert
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7eggert

Scott is also concerned about an extinction level event triggered by the existence of any sentient robot AI. He actually said that.
https://cad-comic.com/comic/trust-p11/

Helldemon
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Helldemon

I mean this is a world with superheros though.

Ben
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Ben

Seems that he doesn’t want to entertain the notion that Z1 is actually sentient, and that he’s affixed a detonator to him.

Scott
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Scott

The seeds of distrust have been sown!

Tim
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Tim

What was Scott’s background story in the reboot again? Everyone is talking about it in the comments

Zaldrak
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Zaldrak

From what I remember he was the fiancee of Ethan’s dead sister. I don’t remember if that’s been stated explicitly, but it seems they got shot during a robbery, she died and he was left on that wheelchair.

Ember
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Ember

Ah. Getting OG Scott vibes here. He and Zeke are also fated to be enemies in this dimension

Sayer
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Sayer

Well that answers my “what is his plan?” question from earlier. Silly me, assuming he was acting in good faith.

Mime
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Mime

Sorry but for me there is to much dissonance between Scott of a few pages ago and this one. A few pages ago he was like the scientist in me is fascinated to see what it does, he either stays put for blows up either way its fine and safe. To your playing with fire, im going to passive agressive make comments about your ability to be objective. im going to call all this a farce. In 1 comic day… I wouldn’t mind if the bot had done anything to provoke any of those sentiment. But if he is being… Read more »

GeorgeV
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GeorgeV

Why can’t he be both? Scott simply isn’t as one-dimensional as you think he should be. Part of him (the scientist part) is indeed fascinated by the technology, but another part of him is also very aware of the dangers a thing like Z1 can pose. As interesting as Z1 is, a possibly sentient murderbot is still much too dangerous to keep around and study, so destroying it is the better option. You may think that’s a dissonance, but it’s pretty normal for people to have multiple feelings about things. Also don’t forget that characters are capable of lying, so… Read more »

Mime
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Mime

Whelp that was a thorough deconstruction and from the author no less, hands up, I stand corrected.

Except you last bit George. It was obvious I was talking about actions after the decision to give him back mobility, and his declaration of scientific fascination and my (at the time) opinion he had suddenly flipped, It was kind of my argument.

Dave
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Dave

Hey look the heel turn is early!

Henchman Twenty1
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Henchman Twenty1

Okay, where’s the penguin???

krabcat
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krabcat

he has not nearly perfected the mind transference device, these things take time

Eldest Gruff
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Eldest Gruff

On a shelf above Scott’s workstation. It’s a little toy.

FITCamaro
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FITCamaro

And now we see the rise of the new(old) villian, Scott.

southpawfrenzy
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southpawfrenzy

Unrelated, but I like that both Scott and Lucas have their side-burn game on point!

Kenneth Lineberger
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Kenneth Lineberger

Scott is missing a big point here. PEOPLE kill and hurt each other, but we don’t lock up or execute individuals until after they do something wrong. Prevent if we can, but it’s not irresponsible to let people be free as a general rule.

7eggert
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7eggert

What would the Inka do if they could prevent the Portuguese invasion by killing the first Europeans to arrive? A sentient superior race – especially one with emotions – has arrived on the shores. Kill it with fire, because the human sacrifices need to continue, and also the wars to capture some!

Crestlinger
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Crestlinger

Chair envy. X1 knows how to build well. Even if it is just with X boxes.

krabcat
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krabcat

i am thinking z1 has subconscious knowledge of the device, and also a sense of self preservation.
ultimately manifesting in fear related to the conditions set to trigger it. he also would never admit to the fear, and so rationalizes it away.

Kit the Coyote
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Kit the Coyote

Scott: I just wanted to see a boom.

Reminds me of a favorite line from Babylon 5 just after a near disaster was averted.

Michael Garibaldi: [Last lines] No boom?

Commander Jeffrey David Sinclair: No Boom.

Susan Ivanova: No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There’s always a boom tomorrow. What? Look, somebody’s got to have some damn perspective around here! Boom. Sooner or later. BOOM!

Smith
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Smith

Why do I get the feeling that this guy might end up being the next villain? As he desperately tries to prove da robot is evil incarnate and needs to be destroyed? Like Lex with Stuporman.

7he3rain
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7he3rain

Ok, so nobody else is pointing out that they’re standing right outside the storeroom with the door open and discussing the hidden detonation device?
I’m pretty sure Z1’s speech processing would be advanced enough to process multiple conversations at once even if they are overlapping and at different volumes…

Man of the West
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Man of the West

I’m somewhat in agreement with Scott. If Scott’s only concerns were robots replacing humans I’d disagree with him, but Z1 has a terrifyingly violent personality. Of course, we all know that Z1 is remake Zeke so it will all work out. And Scott’s attitude is going to cause big problems between Ethan and Z1. Were it not for plot protection though, I’d say Z1 is more of an issue than Scott is.

Detton
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Detton

I like how Scott is the one claiming they can’t see this objectively, while he came into this with a predetermined objective and belief and is upset that the results don’t conform with that belief. I’ve been reading for a while, pre-reset, so I’m not sure how I feel about Scott’s character in this timeline, but I enjoy the storytelling and the comics! I like that I don’t know where the comic is going to go with him — villain? good-intentioned antagonist? eventual heel-face-turn? (or is it face-heel-turn? i’m not looking this up, you know what I mean.) Anyway, my… Read more »