24

In Progress

September 21, 2022 by Tim

This GTA6 leak has been a firm reminder that a lot of people seem to have little to no practical concept of what goes into making a lot of things they enjoy.

The fact that somebody leaked all this stuff is unfortunate on its own (it benefits nobody but the leaker looking to garner some clout), but watching people nitpick and criticize a product that is still obviously still deep in development and years from being ready for public consumption has been unreal.


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Acher4
Acher4
11 days ago

So, so true. Also, one more bad thing is seeing commenters siding with the leaker because…. I don’t know…because the company is taking some time to make a truly great game and successor to GTA5? (already one of the best) Why be mean and hatefull towards the victim? Even if it is a company? I mean, they ARE making a game we want, that even in deep develpoment looks effing amazing, and you side with the one that attacked them, the one that could actually make the making of that game we are all waiting for, harder to be made?… Read more »

Kaitensatsuma
Kaitensatsuma
11 days ago
Reply to  Acher4

After a decade of GTA:O getting all of the attention updated and a big ol’ middle finger for GTA5, RDR2, RD:O players and the completely half-assed GTA:Definitely Badly Done Trilogy remaster I’m not sympathetic at all

I’m also aware that “Half Done” in programming speak usually means “We just started”

Last edited 11 days ago by Kaitensatsuma
Kaitensatsuma
Kaitensatsuma
11 days ago
Reply to  Tim

It’s my personal gripe that you see a decade of development and improvement put into an analog of an offline game but none of that development attention given to the foundation – GTA5 and RDR2 in particular stuck out since I’m more geared towards the single player experience. GTAV was a nice sandbox, but practically empty compared to, for example, San Andreas or even GTAIV – it was a world they could have added much more to without even needing to add DLC Storylines but they didn’t – and didn’t even repatriate any cool things from GTA:O into the main… Read more »

Kaitensatsuma
Kaitensatsuma
11 days ago
Reply to  Tim

Then what’s the point of Rockstar – a developer who is known for traditionally delivering interesting and interactive worlds to play around in changing to delivering worlds that are merely set dressing for the main story and devoid of much else? I expect that from 2K Games’ Mafia series – the world is only there for the atmosphere, hell Mafia 3 is terrible outside of the main story missions. I understand – and recognize the sea change but I don’t appreciate it – especially when they show they’re willing to do so much more with the world if and only… Read more »

Last edited 11 days ago by Kaitensatsuma
Greevar
Greevar
10 days ago
Reply to  Tim

Well, creating launch DLC is pretty shitty. It’s literally taking resources away from the core game to make something they want to sell for more money because product segmentation allows that.

Making new content to sell after the game is complete and launched is another story.

Kaitensatsuma
Kaitensatsuma
10 days ago
Reply to  Greevar

I don’t even mind post-release DLC or, what was it – Season Passes – it’s all the same game in that case. But when GTAV came out, and the first few years of all this cool new stuff they were developing for GTA:O – which was still considered to be somewhat part-and-parcel of GTAV because you couldn’t just buy it separately there was sort of an expectation of “Oh cool! So some of this stuff is going to be added to the main game too, right??” I hope that going forward Rockstar markets and sells their Online experiences separately at… Read more »

Last edited 10 days ago by Kaitensatsuma
Kaitensatsuma
Kaitensatsuma
10 days ago
Reply to  Tim

Tim that’s exactly what they ended up doing – you can buy GTA:O and RD:O separate from the main games now. It would create a clear delineation between the Single Player “Experience” and the “MMORPG” – Even on the consoles. And upon release of GTA:O it was “Kind of an Add-On to the main game” a “Multiplayer Mode” similar to what we saw in GTAIV which was just game-types and matches, not a dedicated perpetual and separately developed ongoing “world”. It’s just been a decade of us now being used to that sort of thing that people have forgotten what… Read more »

Last edited 10 days ago by Kaitensatsuma
Kaitensatsuma
Kaitensatsuma
10 days ago
Reply to  Tim

The Latter – I mentioned in a different reply that I wouldn’t mind so much if it was clearly meant to be a separate experience altogether rather than what had started out as a tacked-on but still quite neat and extra Multiplayer mode. Set boundaries and expectations, make it clear that development on one doesn’t mean development on the other. This is where RockStar really had disappointed – interviews and talks with the company never clarified as such, they just framed the lack of further development on the game as “It sort of just happened” (me, an eternal cynic –… Read more »

Last edited 10 days ago by Kaitensatsuma
Kaitensatsuma
Kaitensatsuma
10 days ago
Reply to  Tim

So, for one thing Tim, I’ve been Reading CAD since…let me check the archives…at least 2006 – maybe to loop that into the discussion, you clearly had a reboot of the series between then and now for various stated and – potentially unstated personal reasons – in fact you announced as much to us here: https://cad-comic.com/upcoming-reboot/ Were readers such as I somewhat upset? I certainly miss some of the old continuity and characters, but – and this is the important part: you told us it was going to happen and you gave us a reason – no middle finger intended… Read more »

Last edited 10 days ago by Kaitensatsuma
James Not-A-Zombie Jameson
James Not-A-Zombie Jameson
10 days ago
Reply to  Tim

I can weigh in on that. The modding community has more or less been pulling their weight (though I have seen some discourse about some of the deeper mods being locked behind patreons, which violates Rockstar’s EULA), but Rockstar (Or rather their owner Take Two) has been fighting them tooth-and-nail to prevent it the whole time. The supposed goal is preventing hacking in online, but anyone who’s played Online on PC can tell you it’s done nothing of the sort. Their actual goal is to prevent the implementation of content from Online into single player. People have done this, namely,… Read more »

Last edited 10 days ago by James Not-A-Zombie Jameson
DanVzare
DanVzare
10 days ago
Reply to  Tim

Why are you bothering to argue when you’re clearly not willing to understand his point of view? Kaiten gave his opinion, and you asked to him to elaborate because you claimed to want to know how people could think that way. I think he’s done a brilliant job at explaining it, but rather than nod in understanding, you’ve instead resorted to using logical fallacies in order to prove why his way of thinking is wrong and you’re right. Either take a moment to truly understand his point of view and where he’s coming from. Or just leave him be. You’re… Read more »

TomB
TomB
11 days ago

Having worked on video games, sometimes they are borked by design, budget, quality of devs and qc, or monetizing stupidity. In one case, that could have made a friend’s company a lot of money, it was legal (the inability of many big stakeholders to figure out how to jointly monetize a fantastic product). Mismanagement of talent and workloads at game studios can also destroy a game with potential. Sometimes studios push something out because they are running out of money, patience, or further ability to improve the product substantially. All of those things can see even a GA release lead… Read more »

Kelenius
Kelenius
11 days ago

Oddly enough, I’ve seen a lot of people complaining about people complaining about the state of the game, but haven’t seen many actual complaints about the game.

zox
zox
11 days ago
Reply to  Kelenius

Same

Kenneth Marticelli
Kenneth Marticelli
10 days ago
Reply to  Kelenius

the complaints may be for things that immediately get the complaints removed and the complainers cancelled then.

Daniel Sørensen
Daniel Sørensen
11 days ago

I find one positive aspect from this whole ordeal: They are working on it.
After a decade and three console generations of GTAV, seeing definitively them actually working on it, was some what a relief. One thing is them announcing it, but not hearing anything since gave the impression that they dropped it. Like how I feel about Elder Scrolls 6.

GCo
GCo
11 days ago

In June they said it was still in pre-production, going to take at least 5 to 10 years.

It’s going to happen, they made way too much money with Skyrim not to go for number 6, but…

Kaitensatsuma
Kaitensatsuma
11 days ago
Reply to  GCo

But they’ve also been skating by on re-releasing Skyrim on everything up to and including your damn toaster oven and Todd is already making SpaceFarce look like a joke with the long talks about “Dreams” and “Visions” and “Player Engagement” but little actual in-game footage that hadn’t been carefully manufactured?

Last edited 11 days ago by Kaitensatsuma
GCo
GCo
11 days ago
Reply to  Kaitensatsuma

That’s entertainment business for the last 20 years: no new ideas, you milk a good cow untill it’s dry, then sell the meat and then the bones and then you go nostalgia seeking and sell the picture of how it was a nice looking cow if there’s someone buying (reboots). See the various Marvel and DC universe movies.

I guess with TES they are at the bones stage.

Eldest Gruff
Eldest Gruff
10 days ago
Reply to  Kaitensatsuma

TBF, they kind of hit their limit with Skyrim, I think. Long-time fans were complaining about how more and more bare-bones the games were, compared to Morrowind or even Oblivion. New fans were eating it up. I cannot see another title coming out in a few years that would’ve pleased everyone. I mean, heck, I see what they did with Fallout. Constant innovation and iteration is hard. If you strike it out of the park, coming out with another game of similar quality again and again just doesn’t cut mustard. At least, if Assassin’s Creed or Zelda have taught me… Read more »

Kaitensatsuma
Kaitensatsuma
10 days ago
Reply to  Eldest Gruff

Actually it was a trip going back to Morrowind, Arena and Daggerfall – even Oblivion after Skyrim and seeing they have more depth to them it’s like.

Wait, I could climb things willy nilly? Why did they take away the neat perks from getting better at skills in Oblivion like running on water and just shove them into a Perk Tree? Why simplify it to just Stamina/Health/Mana? Man Enchanting and Potion Making used to be interesting

Kaogen
Kaogen
10 days ago
Reply to  Kaitensatsuma

What was alchemy like in Arena and Daggerfall? Because it didn’t really change too much from Morrowind to Skyrim (Though skyrim removed the items that influenced the potions, which could have been considered good or bad depending on how you percieved how OP those items made the potions at high skill)

Kaitensatsuma
Kaitensatsuma
9 days ago
Reply to  Kaogen

Ah in Daggerfall it was very basic “One Effect Per Potion, and you had to have a rough idea of what you were making” Morrowind introduced the multiple effects system with the different Potion Making tools to improve good/reduce bad effects, etc – Oblivion builds on it by adding poisons as well which was neat , Skyrim by dint of removing stats and a large amount of spells and effects is what made it “Less Interesting” IMO Arguably Enchanting in Skyrim was more OP than potion making ever was in Morrowind or Oblivion – Just fortify the crap out of… Read more »

Last edited 9 days ago by Kaitensatsuma
Andreas
Andreas
11 days ago

I’m gonna hang this at work as a reminder to everyone that complains about my changes after I’ve said that I’m half done.

Namefield
Namefield
11 days ago

Unpopular opinion coming through: The company behind GTA is evil and thus GTA is irrelevant.

Dodgy
Dodgy
11 days ago
Reply to  Namefield

Does your mom know you escaped from the basement and are running rampant again?

WereCatf
WereCatf
11 days ago
Reply to  Namefield

How does that logic work? GTA V is a hugely successful game that has influenced tons of other games, has made the company hundreds of millions of dollars, there’s been rumblings of a TV-show and/or a movie and all that and… one, single aspect of the company somehow erases all of that? No, that logic makes absolutely not a lick of sense and you should be ashamed of spouting such things publicly. Also, just to pre-empt any accusations: no, I don’t play GTA, any of them, I have no interest in any of them, and I don’t like the company’s… Read more »

Last edited 11 days ago by WereCatf
Varkhan
Varkhan
11 days ago

Well, humans are stupid. Gamers are humans. QED

Vira
Vira
11 days ago

Woah. Was this written for me, specifically? (no, obviously not lol). I am dealing with this *exact* scenario with my irl house, right now. People are all the same, I guess. Maybe people really need to stop thinking that the first thing that pops into their heads is the only correct answer, and society needs to start reminding people to at least attempt cordial communication before insisting their monkey-brain shower-thoughts are the equivalent to God’s Gift to Humanity. Please, don’t come over to my in-progress project and be angry that it’s not done, when I told you it’s not done.… Read more »

Tracker
Tracker
11 days ago

I love this, all of this. And it’s just further proof that people don’t appreciate what goes into stuff, not just the look and the graphics, but all the other little systems that have to grow up together. All the best games have this story to them, from conception to release, where everything is hanged , tweaked constantly.. nothing is just ‘ done’, especially in this day and age with patching, and it’s a painstaking process. All the off-feeling stuff, things that dont mesh, or games that feel like there’s two different things mashed together and don’t quite interlock? that’s… Read more »

raven0ak
raven0ak
11 days ago

Depends a bit of what critics is about; gameplay loop would be valid critics as its wont be most likely changed in further production (since dev would need to start over)

Stef
Stef
11 days ago
Reply to  raven0ak

why is this downvoted? it’s true

WereCatf
WereCatf
11 days ago
Reply to  Stef

Because the whining online is about the visuals of the leaks, not the gameplay.

Stef
Stef
9 days ago
Reply to  WereCatf

True.

Sayer
Sayer
11 days ago
Reply to  Stef

Unrelated to the topic: Where is your avatar from? It looks very “Joe England’s Zebragirl” but I can’t quite place it.

Stef
Stef
9 days ago
Reply to  Sayer

I drew it myself about 20 years ago and have been using it as an avatar on a lot of sites ever since. It wasn’t based on anything, I just wanted to draw an angry face

ShonaSoF
ShonaSoF
8 days ago
Reply to  Tim

Honestly, the way you presented it in the comic is perfect.

Too many people jump on the clueless-yet-entitled crazy train these days. Internet anonymity making people worse has given way to people _crusading_ with their awful hot-takes and armchair quarterbacking.

Acorr
Acorr
11 days ago

Everytime a data leak of that caliber happens I’m weirdly disappointed it didn’t hit SONY. Imagine if the design documents and the OS source codes for their consoles got published for the world to see.

WereCatf
WereCatf
11 days ago
Reply to  Acorr

And what would you do with the source-code? Even if it was leaked, it’d still be fully copyrighted and you couldn’t legally use it for anything at all — no alternative OSes for the consoles, no homebrew, no nothing.

The PS4 SDK was leaked some time ago and….oh, there are no interesting projects based on it, because that would not be legal as the SDK is still Sony’s copyrighted property regardless of whether it was leaked or not.

toughluck
toughluck
11 days ago
Reply to  WereCatf

Plus, unlike the Cell CPU in PS3, PS4 is almost like a generic PC with no really useful properties.

Acorr
Acorr
11 days ago
Reply to  WereCatf

Might be my limited understanding of programming at work here. Obviously you can’t copy SONY’s code to build an emulator, since they have the property rights. But you should be able to write a completely original code based on the inner workings of said leaked code. But in the end, all my antipathy towards SONY stems from the gigantic amounts of salt I accumulated due to the fact that I had to borrow a PS4 to play Bloodborne, which is without hyperbole the only PS4 exclusive I wanted to play. And even the PS4 pro was so catastrophically slow and… Read more »

WereCatf
WereCatf
10 days ago
Reply to  Acorr

But you should be able to write a completely original code based on the inner workings of said leaked code.

Yes, if you did it properly via clean room reverse engineering ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_room_design ), but that is an excruciatingly slow process and a massive amount of work. Besides that, the source-code still wouldn’t help you at all in emulating any of the hardware, for example.

Joel
Joel
11 days ago

I’ll make the argument that so many people don’t understand how game development works BECAUSE it’s always kept hidden from the public. If people were routinely exposed to in-progress development they might have a better understanding of the process.

Dom
Dom
11 days ago
Reply to  Tim

Hell, I don’t even know how much work is put into making a continuous webcomic for as long as you have, so there’s something to compare it too as well. I myself have gained a lot of respect for the animation industry over the years learning by watching my favorite animators struggle and share their experiences with their communities. I also have a huge respect webcomic artists like Tim in general who manage to keep making interesting/funny/clever/(many other feelings that doesn’t come to mind atm) comics for so long, while I mostly only have occasional dad jokes/puns (I’m not a… Read more »

Robert L.
Robert L.
11 days ago
Reply to  Tim

Particularly when this is a leak and not an open beta or early access situation. I’m pretty certain you’d get complainers however even if what was leaked was the very first conference room meeting where they were looking at the storyboards and not one line of code had been written yet.

Joel
Joel
10 days ago
Reply to  Tim

There’s a lot of news and footage surrounding the making of Hollywood movies, with pictures of actors in mocap suits standing in front of green screen, commentary on DVDs, etc. Enough that the average person has a vague understanding of the general process of making a movie.

However it’s not nearly the case with video games where studios try to hide everything they’re doing on the back-end and the public is never shown anything from the development process outside of concept art.

toughluck
toughluck
11 days ago
Reply to  Joel

Oh, people are exposed to it nowadays via the likes of Patreon or Kickstarter. And what they’re seeing is NOT how normal game development works, but how people outside the industry think game development works and try to put that into motion.
And it fails because they had no idea.

Eodyne
Eodyne
11 days ago

I did enjoy watching every game developer on Twitter come out to dunk on the guy who stated: “If you knew anything about game design you’d know the visuals are the first thing done and are unlikely to change much from here.”

Some of the screenshots they posted of AAA games they’d worked on using early placeholder visuals were hilarious and made me think that I’d totally buy a DLC that gave me some of the janky pre-alpha visuals for a laugh.

Nyzer
Nyzer
9 days ago
Reply to  Eodyne

First thing done, that’s a fucking laugh. I don’t even work in the industry and that still sounds like major bullshit to me. Yeah, we’ve definitely optimized the visuals long before we even know the baseline level for how much processing power the game needs just to wander the open world.

FireballDragon
FireballDragon
11 days ago

I don’t play GTA, and I don’t plan on doing so, but it is disheartening (Albeit expected) to see people pass judgement on something that’s clearly only a semblance of what it could and would become in due time.

Antique Alien
Antique Alien
11 days ago
Reply to  FireballDragon

Honestly, same. I play Kerbal Space Program, and this seems to be happening with KSP2.

Dan
Dan
11 days ago

As someone who helped build eight houses (part of an owner/builder program) I can attest to the accuracy of your analogy.

Bakhtosh
Bakhtosh
11 days ago

There’s a balancing act between seeing something going off the rails (animations for the Sonic movie that fan reactions got changed) and overreacting to something in development that’s not intended to be final. Let’s say the team working on Fallout 4 finished the settlement builder portion way in advance of the rest of the game and someone leaked footage of it. You’d have people griping about the lack of traditional RPG elements and no sweeping scale of the game. Would the backlash have been enough to get Bethesda to scrap or scale back the settlement builder? I know not everyone… Read more »

Curtis
Curtis
11 days ago

This is a very funny visual. The idea that some people genuinely believe things are made as if being loaded in like building structures in planetary annihilation just really made me laugh.
Hadn’t heard of the GTA leak before now.

Last edited 11 days ago by Curtis
Phaet
Phaet
11 days ago

Reminds me how media was covering all the “Vampire the masquerade bloodlines 2” game.

  • It’s almost done
  • We played it, it’s ready
  • Release date soon
  • Game is sooo ready it’s almost here
  • Game release is soo close I can feel it with the tip of my penis! That’s how close it is
  • It’s going to be delayed slightly
  • We don’t know if it’s ever going to be released.

I mean C’MON!

Dom
Dom
11 days ago

With the anonymity of the Internet, it’s hard to figure out which commenters are literal children and which are adults etc. I’m all for the ability to speak freely, but accountability rarely exists on the Internet, so it makes it difficult to get a real picture of what isn’t just a emotional mob with pitchforks vs what is a educated comment. Not impossible, but more work.

Kaogen
Kaogen
11 days ago

I can get when people complain about downgrades from the slice trailers, but I don’t get why people can’t make the distinction between ‘we’re not ready to show it off yet’ and ‘we just haven’t released a trailer yet’.

PhobosRising
PhobosRising
11 days ago

If this is an pre-alpha joke, it seems devs seem to be marketing games sooner and sooner while expecting a AAA check. Eventually it will be $90 to try to inspire someone to hopefully have a dream that will spawn the need to hire a graphics design crew for a teaser.

SpinelesS
SpinelesS
11 days ago

I’m with the Penny Arcade Cartoon. I’m not watching the leaked footage.

We all know what a GTA game is, what the hell is the point in watching unfinished footage that won’t tell me anything I don’t already know.

juckto
juckto
11 days ago

You got the timber framing up? Mate, you’re 80% done, not halfway 😉

(Especially if you believe your builder’s bills)

Long Johnson
Long Johnson
11 days ago

I’m not gonna judge a game that’s not fully complete. That’s not fair.
I will, however, laugh at TT/Rockstar, since they’re scum and deserve pain. I hope more leaks pop up just to rub more salt in the wound.

Mx. Me
Mx. Me
10 days ago

Despite what Rockstar keeps insisting, most of the leakers seem to be saying GTA6 will be out by 2024 at the very latest. These are the same people whose rumors were vindicated by this leak.

Which in the end is my main issue. This isn’t the game I want. Not in location (West Coast or bust), and not in quality. It is at best an iterative improvement over GTA5, not a new revolutionary advancement that all these years between products demands.

Robert L.
Robert L.
10 days ago
Reply to  Mx. Me

GTA5 was west coast. You want that again or do you mean you want it in a city that’s not LA/Riverside like SF or Seattle?

Mx. Me
Mx. Me
10 days ago
Reply to  Robert L.

Either one, I am not picky. I just have no interest in Vice or Liberty Cities.

DanVzare
DanVzare
10 days ago
Reply to  Mx. Me

I want a new GTA set in London in the 1960s.

We’ve gotten to revisit Liberty City, San Andreas, and Vice City, all several times, and all of which made their first appearance in the original GTA.

That original GTA got not one, but two expansion packs set in London in the 1960s, so I want to see that again!

Then give me one more game set in Anywhere City from GTA 2, and I’ll finally be able to die happy.

DataSchmuck
DataSchmuck
10 days ago

Everyone knows the first thing that gets completed when making a web comic is the visuals. You write the story after you’ve drawn the comic.

Glen
Glen
10 days ago

I’m more mortified that US houses are actually built like that, no wonder they’re all gone when there’s a strong gust of wind.

Nobody
Nobody
9 days ago
Reply to  Glen

Question. Why don’t Europeans build houses out of tornado proof stone?

You may use stone but to be tornado proof you would need to have walls several meters thick.

Wood is cheap. You can rebuild the house several times for the same cost as a stone house with walls that thick.

evilleet
evilleet
10 days ago

Its like judging a stew before it is cooked or even tasted.

Nobody
Nobody
9 days ago

Conversely you have all the people wanting to play Alpha builds for games. “Why can’t I move into the house yet?” when it is just a basic framework

Kevin Greenbaum
Kevin Greenbaum
9 days ago

The seems like a little less than half done knowing all the electrical and plumbing and insulating. However I’m not in the construction business so I might be very wrong.

Foxhood
Foxhood
9 days ago

I genuinely can’t blame them THAT much. I mean it is still silly, but i do believe it is in part because of modern Early Access culture. These days when a game is released in Early Access many genuinely tend to resemble the first half house. Most systems are already there and in some stage of refinement, but half the content is still missing which tend to get released over time along with polish and qol stuff. Makes sense that some average joe that only ever saw early-access titles as “in-development” falsely assume this is just how it always is…… Read more »

Joel
Joel
9 days ago

I refuse to even look for (or at if it happens into one of my feeds) the footage. As someone who has spent a career building software, this leak doesn’t say anything about the finished product other than “we’re actively working on it”. Cool. They said they were working on it. Now I guess we know(?) they are. Not information I needed either way. I won’t give the leaker the attention they’re looking for.

HonoredMule
HonoredMule
6 days ago

To be fair, bare frame on a foundation is nowhere near halfway. Add sheathing, roof, insulation and windows, and maybe you’re getting close. Even for cheap cookie cutter housing, interior finishing work alone is a huge part of it, and we’ve not even mentioned plumbing, electrical, ventilation…

You can have a house framed and not even be halfway through the planning.