My longest one was 19 years. D&D is like any activity (board game, card game, dice game, conversation) for a group. If you have people you enjoy spending time with and who aren’t a PITA, then you’ll have fun. If you’ve got people with zero imagination, overgrown need to ‘win’ even where winning doesn’t exist, or that are just so dificult nothing will work well with them as a part of it, then you haven’t got the right people. Some of my fondest memories were over an RPG table. That also helped keep a group of 7 of us together… Read more »
there are three broad categories, “those” guys, the by the book and puns&dadjokespeople, you want the last two to be in your group, or just the last if you plan on having more fun than roleplaying.
I just think of the series as a comedy for those who have played and not a good representation of the game. There’s usually a lot more talking and it’s more relaxed (assuming DM doesn’t have a stick up his backside). Usually have food and drinks and everyone is using their imagination like you would when reading a book so it’s like going on an adventure together. Just don’t anger the DM too much, he is the god of the world you will be visiting.
DahrAmahr
4 years ago
Although I’ve been playing and gamemastering RPGs for past 25 years now. I’ve never seen a concept where Game Master was also a player. I wonder how does that work…
It’s a DMPC. Usually reserved for either temporary events where, for example, you’re on an escort mission, the DM plays the person being escorted who may or may not have his own levels and might be able to join the fights. Or, in smaller groups, the DM also plays a character to avoid having too few players or simply because he wants to join in as a player. The tough part here, you have to walk the fine line of, when in character, act like you have no idea of what the DM knows. And when helping with things like… Read more »
Exactly this. A good DMPC needs to either be unable or unwilling to assist the rest of the party without being prompted, otherwise you run the risk of solving all of your puzzles before anyone else gets a look-in. Of course, you could just build the quest around a willing and able DMPC by throwing in challenges he’s unskilled at, or adding something to interfere with his direct contribution (even Prince Charming would have trouble communicating if a squirrel just happened at that moment to choose his breeches as a means to escape a pursuing hound, for example).
Robotic characters (Or golems depending on Settings) make great DMPCs i’ve found, as they give a handy excuse to info dump backstory and world building stuff if your characters are interested, can be just as helpful, or unhelpful, as you need them to be and it’s all easily explained by “To literal” programming. “Help us get the door open!” Proceeds to make strength checks against the door repeatedly. “No, I mean solve the puzzle!” “I do not have this puzzle in my records. I apologize.”
If that works for a DM and his or her players then I see no problem in that; however, in my experience, players seem to have enough going on managing their own character sheets, yet alone being lumbered with another one, and sharing that burden quickly becomes a ‘too many chefs’ scenario. A DMPC shouldn’t ever be a burden on the players (only on their PCs depending on the purpose of said DMPC), and if the quest is well organised and properly managed, a DMPC can be an effective tool in managing the quest and its difficulty (if a combat… Read more »
That’s often the preferred method over the DMPC. The DM then controls the NPC, but as it isn’t leveling by XP (instead, by the story as with any NPC) it helps the DM in the separation of knowledge (no incentive to suddenly know the answer to the puzzle). For most DM’s the rule of thumb is that if the character has no agency beyond the DM’s will, they are an NPC. If the character has the ability to ruin all of the DM’s plans by using the door key as a prybar, then they’re PCs sitting across from you. Having… Read more »
In my groups’ Tuesday game, our party has a tendancy to adopt people which forces our DM to either DMPC or do something drastic to make us leave them somewhere lol
Most notable was when we accidentally made a cult by sparing a group of almost 20 bandits because they were all pretty young (like 15-18) and we were very experienced. Well our cleric tried to convert them to his gods (the Gnomish Gods) but instead they worshipped him and he’s kind of an idiot so he didn’t even realize until one of them professed their love for him.
Our gaming group use to do this all of the time. I thought it worked out well. We use to rotate DM’s and this allowed the DM to have a PC that leveled with everyone else. You also didn’t have to mess up the party dynamics. For example, loosing a healer and gain another fighter. We just treated the DMPC as another NPC. It is very easy as a DM not to assist the party, if not required. It is also a good way for the DM to speak to the party, if required. The hardest part I found was… Read more »
Well or horribly. It’s hard. You want to help the team, but then you rob them of agency. You want to help them in fights, but you know what the best strategy is already. Same problem. You want to be there so you can play someday if one of them wants to GM. Maybe that happens, mostly not. I’ve seen it work, but I’d say maybe 1 time out of 5 it worked well. Another time or two, it worked so so for a while then the GM retired the character. It muddies the waters between the GM and the… Read more »
I’ve done this when otherwise DM’ing for small parties. My recent favorite method is using the ruleset for dog/cat characters created by Steam Forged Games.
The ruleset let’s you establish in game how communication works for animal characters. I typically have it that the animals understand spoken common, but communicates with more traditional animal behaviors. Something about not communicating explicitly through words relieves some of that temptation to solve the puzzles.
Ok, this was a really accurate depiction of average PC groups…
EdG
4 years ago
I relate to this on a spiritual level….. my buddies always try to brute force their way through puzzles and it has had some hilarious results. There are some, I suppose typical events, such as opening a door the wrong way (push instead of pull), literally beating an old woman to death to steal her pastry cart, running full speed down a hallway right into a spike pit, and burning a map because they needed a torch. The two events they’ve done so far that left me speechless were when the druid transformed into an ape and killed the with… Read more »
My current DM has started making fail-secure doors to avoid the “barbarian master key” scenario. Sure you can force the door open with a high enough strength check, but if the door opens without the lock first being disabled then a trap is automatically triggered (spike pits and bolt launchers being the most common, though there has been burning oil and even an Indiana Jones boulder once). Plus smashing doors inside dungeons/castles tends to be very loud and alert Every Single Guard. Basically, we know that if we can’t solve a puzzle we can always just smash the door in… Read more »
Kix Acelot
4 years ago
My players once came upon a large set of double doors that had a relief of a beholder etched into them. It was PURELY decorative but they spent 90-ish minutes standing in front of those doors trying to figure out the trap or code to open them. Another favorite is when they found a statue with an outstretched hand, palm up, also just a decorative statue. After searching and searching they found nothing. The party thief was particularly interested in the open hand and kept asking about it. As he moved off and searched another area the barbarian he cut… Read more »
For Shadowrun, an guy named Blackjack had a few fun items that you could add to your run to spice things up, that were utterly useless. We drew a lot of inspiration from this and usually had Easter eggs in our campaigns.
24
that’s what you get for throwing puzzles at a bunch of retarded monkeys lol
That was a long winded way of saying typical players.
Apes together strong…
been a while since four menaces were last up
This series does a good job of deterring me from ever playing D&D
D&D is FANTASTIC…. with the right group. I DM’ed a campaign for 4 years. Really good times. Had a fantastic group.
My longest one was 19 years. D&D is like any activity (board game, card game, dice game, conversation) for a group. If you have people you enjoy spending time with and who aren’t a PITA, then you’ll have fun. If you’ve got people with zero imagination, overgrown need to ‘win’ even where winning doesn’t exist, or that are just so dificult nothing will work well with them as a part of it, then you haven’t got the right people. Some of my fondest memories were over an RPG table. That also helped keep a group of 7 of us together… Read more »
My wife has been running a game off and on for the last 11 years. Our niece is a player now that she’s old enough to understand the game.
there are three broad categories, “those” guys, the by the book and puns&dadjokespeople, you want the last two to be in your group, or just the last if you plan on having more fun than roleplaying.
I just think of the series as a comedy for those who have played and not a good representation of the game. There’s usually a lot more talking and it’s more relaxed (assuming DM doesn’t have a stick up his backside). Usually have food and drinks and everyone is using their imagination like you would when reading a book so it’s like going on an adventure together. Just don’t anger the DM too much, he is the god of the world you will be visiting.
Although I’ve been playing and gamemastering RPGs for past 25 years now. I’ve never seen a concept where Game Master was also a player. I wonder how does that work…
It’s a DMPC. Usually reserved for either temporary events where, for example, you’re on an escort mission, the DM plays the person being escorted who may or may not have his own levels and might be able to join the fights. Or, in smaller groups, the DM also plays a character to avoid having too few players or simply because he wants to join in as a player. The tough part here, you have to walk the fine line of, when in character, act like you have no idea of what the DM knows. And when helping with things like… Read more »
Just play low int characters as a DM. It saves you the trouble of having to help out with puzzles that you already know the answer to.
Exactly this. A good DMPC needs to either be unable or unwilling to assist the rest of the party without being prompted, otherwise you run the risk of solving all of your puzzles before anyone else gets a look-in. Of course, you could just build the quest around a willing and able DMPC by throwing in challenges he’s unskilled at, or adding something to interfere with his direct contribution (even Prince Charming would have trouble communicating if a squirrel just happened at that moment to choose his breeches as a means to escape a pursuing hound, for example).
Robotic characters (Or golems depending on Settings) make great DMPCs i’ve found, as they give a handy excuse to info dump backstory and world building stuff if your characters are interested, can be just as helpful, or unhelpful, as you need them to be and it’s all easily explained by “To literal” programming. “Help us get the door open!” Proceeds to make strength checks against the door repeatedly. “No, I mean solve the puzzle!” “I do not have this puzzle in my records. I apologize.”
At that point, why not just have an NPC party member that the players manage in fights?
If that works for a DM and his or her players then I see no problem in that; however, in my experience, players seem to have enough going on managing their own character sheets, yet alone being lumbered with another one, and sharing that burden quickly becomes a ‘too many chefs’ scenario. A DMPC shouldn’t ever be a burden on the players (only on their PCs depending on the purpose of said DMPC), and if the quest is well organised and properly managed, a DMPC can be an effective tool in managing the quest and its difficulty (if a combat… Read more »
That’s often the preferred method over the DMPC. The DM then controls the NPC, but as it isn’t leveling by XP (instead, by the story as with any NPC) it helps the DM in the separation of knowledge (no incentive to suddenly know the answer to the puzzle). For most DM’s the rule of thumb is that if the character has no agency beyond the DM’s will, they are an NPC. If the character has the ability to ruin all of the DM’s plans by using the door key as a prybar, then they’re PCs sitting across from you. Having… Read more »
In my groups’ Tuesday game, our party has a tendancy to adopt people which forces our DM to either DMPC or do something drastic to make us leave them somewhere lol
Most notable was when we accidentally made a cult by sparing a group of almost 20 bandits because they were all pretty young (like 15-18) and we were very experienced. Well our cleric tried to convert them to his gods (the Gnomish Gods) but instead they worshipped him and he’s kind of an idiot so he didn’t even realize until one of them professed their love for him.
Our gaming group use to do this all of the time. I thought it worked out well. We use to rotate DM’s and this allowed the DM to have a PC that leveled with everyone else. You also didn’t have to mess up the party dynamics. For example, loosing a healer and gain another fighter. We just treated the DMPC as another NPC. It is very easy as a DM not to assist the party, if not required. It is also a good way for the DM to speak to the party, if required. The hardest part I found was… Read more »
Well or horribly. It’s hard. You want to help the team, but then you rob them of agency. You want to help them in fights, but you know what the best strategy is already. Same problem. You want to be there so you can play someday if one of them wants to GM. Maybe that happens, mostly not. I’ve seen it work, but I’d say maybe 1 time out of 5 it worked well. Another time or two, it worked so so for a while then the GM retired the character. It muddies the waters between the GM and the… Read more »
I’ve done this when otherwise DM’ing for small parties. My recent favorite method is using the ruleset for dog/cat characters created by Steam Forged Games.
The ruleset let’s you establish in game how communication works for animal characters. I typically have it that the animals understand spoken common, but communicates with more traditional animal behaviors. Something about not communicating explicitly through words relieves some of that temptation to solve the puzzles.
Make your DMPC a Kenku.
Ok, this was a really accurate depiction of average PC groups…
I relate to this on a spiritual level….. my buddies always try to brute force their way through puzzles and it has had some hilarious results. There are some, I suppose typical events, such as opening a door the wrong way (push instead of pull), literally beating an old woman to death to steal her pastry cart, running full speed down a hallway right into a spike pit, and burning a map because they needed a torch. The two events they’ve done so far that left me speechless were when the druid transformed into an ape and killed the with… Read more »
My current DM has started making fail-secure doors to avoid the “barbarian master key” scenario. Sure you can force the door open with a high enough strength check, but if the door opens without the lock first being disabled then a trap is automatically triggered (spike pits and bolt launchers being the most common, though there has been burning oil and even an Indiana Jones boulder once). Plus smashing doors inside dungeons/castles tends to be very loud and alert Every Single Guard. Basically, we know that if we can’t solve a puzzle we can always just smash the door in… Read more »
My players once came upon a large set of double doors that had a relief of a beholder etched into them. It was PURELY decorative but they spent 90-ish minutes standing in front of those doors trying to figure out the trap or code to open them. Another favorite is when they found a statue with an outstretched hand, palm up, also just a decorative statue. After searching and searching they found nothing. The party thief was particularly interested in the open hand and kept asking about it. As he moved off and searched another area the barbarian he cut… Read more »
For Shadowrun, an guy named Blackjack had a few fun items that you could add to your run to spice things up, that were utterly useless. We drew a lot of inspiration from this and usually had Easter eggs in our campaigns.
http://www.blackjacksr.com/stuffmenu/UselessArtifacts.htm
The DM is also a PC? That’s a paddlin’.
for a second I read that as Paladin
I love it….
What is this? The Elder Scrolls: Retards?
Well, yes.
This is what happens when you put no points into int… is what I’d say, but it doesn’t look like they are just RPing.
No matter how many points you put into Intelligence, real life intelligence is still required to know when to use it.
Ya. Its no help having a character with a +4 Int modifier when the player themselves has a -4.
and thus the statue opened the door while feeling pity for poor yellow
That bronze looks unpatinated, patinated bronze is dark brown/grey or green!
They were so close…
I love the Players.
Hey Tim, have had a couple of ads that have forced audio on playing (no way to close or mute offered), they seem to be advertising Adobe products.
can confirm this is how players solve problems. though as a dwarf bard with stone sense I would seduce the statue first… it actually has worked
Next they’ll attack a Gazebo.